David Warner

[The Passenger]

bit harsh on siddle. he had an excellent season or two with victoria including a big game in a shield final. unfortunately hasn't taken that potential consistently to the test arena.

the rest i agree on.

liam davis unbeaten on 58. and will be a candidate for an oz a. for what it's worth the guy with im wes robinson wouldn't be the worst option in the test team either. quite a few runs last season but so far not this season. at least you know he'd put a high price on his wicket.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Baggy green:
Nathan Lyon
Michael Beer
Xavier Doherty
Cameron White
Peter Siddle
Dan Cullen
Nathan Hauritz (when at QLD)

That's not even mentioning guys that have made squads.

None of them had performed as well at FC in the skill they were selected for as Warner has done, and Warner hasn't even debuted yet.

Nice one. Talk about batsmen and then offer up spin bowlers (which has been a rotating door) and a pie chucker to reply to a question.

Why did you even bother?

 

[Marshland]

I can't understand the criticism of having Warner in the test squad. Honestly people, what else could go wrong?

 

[BarneyBent]

Nice one. Talk about batsmen and then offer up spin bowlers (which has been a rotating door) and a pie chucker to reply to a question.

Why did you even bother?

He asked for non-NSW players that have been given a Baggy Green, and I assume it was based on those that had got it after not showing much. Whether they are batsmen or not is hardly relevant, is it?

 

[lionbear]

Baggy green:
Nathan Lyon
Michael Beer
Xavier Doherty
Cameron White
Peter Siddle
Dan Cullen
Nathan Hauritz (when at QLD)

That's not even mentioning guys that have made squads.

None of them had performed as well at FC in the skill they were selected for as Warner has done, and Warner hasn't even debuted yet.

A list of spinners and one or two others is hardly what I call an conclusive argument considering they change it over more often then I eat hot dinners. And how many years did White play for before getting his baggy Green?

Hauritz never got a proper opportunity until he pulled on the Baggy Blue.

 

[MinerBoy]

2. Haddin (Why not? He goes hard at the ball, the ball might as well be hard. He is useless in a collapse, might as well start one.)

Haha - very nice.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

He asked for non-NSW players that have been given a Baggy Green, and I assume it was based on those that had got it after not showing much. Whether they are batsmen or not is hardly relevant, is it?

Given the revolving door dor our attack (especially with spinners) it is relevant.

Getting a gig in the batting line up has always been a more difficult task than the bowling.

And this is no doubt where most of the NSW-centric bias (real or not) is generated.

 

[BarneyBent]

A list of spinners and one or two others is hardly what I call an conclusive argument considering they change it over more often then I eat hot dinners.

True, but it's mainly been spinners that have been selected recently. How many batsmen have made their debuts recently?

Phil Hughes earned his.

Steve Smith didn't earn his debut as a spinner, but earned attention for his batting. He was picked in the Ashes during an unfortunate patch of bad form, but he performed at FC level prior to that.

Usman Khawaja worked his arse off.

And then there's Marcus North and Shaun Marsh, none of whom had sparkling FC records when picked.

Other than that, selections have been bowlers.

And how many years did White play for before getting his baggy Green?

Quite a few, none as a particularly good bowler or batsman in FC cricket.

Hauritz never got a proper opportunity until he pulled on the Baggy Blue.

Only because there were a couple of guys by the name of Warne and MacGill around him. Strangely enough, his return to the Test side came when those two guys had retired. But no, it was the baggy blue that did it, I'm sure of it! (Never mind that Krezja didn't get a go until he moved from NSW to Tasmania).

How many other teams show as much faith in their youth as NSW? That's why they get players selected for Australia. Not to mention the fact that NSW has the largest population, and the best grassroots cricket system, reflected in the large number of gun NSW-born cricketers that are now plying their trades for other states.

 

[lionbear]

How many other teams show as much faith in their youth as NSW? That's why they get players selected for Australia. Not to mention the fact that NSW has the largest population, and the best grassroots cricket system, reflected in the large number of gun NSW-born cricketers that are now plying their trades for other states.

Which comes back to my original point, Cricket Australia need to make sure that all 6 states have the coverage and programs that NSW has, whether you like to admit it or not a large % of our younger players are currently coming from one state, while this continues to happen, players that both you and me don't realise could be stars will continue to fall through the cracks.

 

[BarneyBent]

Which comes back to my original point, Cricket Australia need to make sure that all 6 states have the coverage and programs that NSW has, whether you like to admit it or not a large % of our younger players are currently coming from one state, while this continues to happen, players that both you and me don't realise could be stars will continue to fall through the cracks.

Now that, I agree with. But it's not a bias, it's just that there are good systems in place in NSW. Hence why you've got guys like Nathan Lyon, Tom Cooper, Ed Cowan, Dan Christian, Peter Forrest and Jason Krejza plying their trades at other states. It's also why a full-strength NSW batting lineup is simply impossible to pick, and why the 5 players in contention for two opening slots in the Test side are ALL NSWmen (Watson, Hughes, Khawaja, Warner, and nominally, Katich).

Seriously, the full strength NSW batting lineup is selected from:

Watson - FC avg. 45
Hughes - FC avg. 49
Khawaja - FC avg. 47
Katich - FC avg. 53
Clarke - FC avg. 45
Warner - FC avg. 60
Smith - FC avg. 44
Maddinson - FC avg. 41
Rohrer - FC avg. 48
Jaques - FC avg. 50

You cannot look at that and tell me that NSW aren't doing something special. That's not even mentioning that Haddin averages 40, and Nevill averages 44. Then there are the guys that left NSW (but then, you have to take away Watson and Katich if you mention them, but still).

NSW have players selected for Australia because NSW have players that perform. Simple as that.

 

[fairdinkum]

Warner and Watson to open. Khawaja at 3. Hughes to keep?

I honestly reckon this would be our best chance of beating SA in the 2nd Test.

The next best bet is to allow Haddin one more Test and bring Warner in as a direct replacement for Hughes (Khawaja for Marsh).

As soon as Marsh was unable to bat at number 3, we were in strife. How people did not see it coming, I have no idea. Ponting is too slow to bat at 3 these days, and Clarke doesn't score at 4. We simply cannot afford to be relying on our number three (Khawaja) to see off the new ball once Hughes gets out to another squarer-upper as he inevitably will.

 

[BluesMan]

Bit to reactive me thinks. But if means Warner plays in front of Hughes, im all for it. If you score any runs/wickets at FC level, even in just one match, your in line for a call up. It's what its down to now, which is sad.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Honestly what other option did they have? Most of the top batsmen are batting horribly- Ferguson for one. Warner is worth a risk, but why not open with Khawaja, and get rid of Ponting, and Waston bats 4, with Khawaja and Warner opening

 

[Doodlesweaver]

I honestly reckon this would be our best chance of beating SA in the 2nd Test.

The next best bet is to allow Haddin one more Test and bring Warner in as a direct replacement for Hughes (Khawaja for Marsh).

As soon as Marsh was unable to bat at number 3, we were in strife. How people did not see it coming, I have no idea. Ponting is too slow to bat at 3 these days, and Clarke doesn't score at 4. We simply cannot afford to be relying on our number three (Khawaja) to see off the new ball once Hughes gets out to another squarer-upper as he inevitably will.

I thought that's what the panic was more about than them being so happy and relaxed that they were in front.(Though I don't know what's worse in all honesty). One of the Aussie journalists pointed that out straight away. Bit pathetic if true. Marsh, whle hardly having claimed a place yet, has been part of at least a partnership of 50 every time he has come out to bat at 3 - even when he only scored 18, he managed to stick around for that.

But this next match will be on a road, so all the batsmen should be more comfortable. It will be nice for Ussie if so. SA will want to ensure the win, they have NEVER beaten Australian in South Africa since rejoining. I can't see them wanting to take the risk with a dicey pitch.

 

[Cotchin 9]

Would be good to have a fit and firing Phil Jaques up and about.

 

[Public Enemy No1]

Honestly dont rate Hughes at all. Is the worst top 6 batsman we have had in 20 years.
Warner has to be a better option surely

 

[Bomber Bears]

I honestly reckon this would be our best chance of beating SA in the 2nd Test.

The next best bet is to allow Haddin one more Test and bring Warner in as a direct replacement for Hughes (Khawaja for Marsh).

As soon as Marsh was unable to bat at number 3, we were in strife. How people did not see it coming, I have no idea. Ponting is too slow to bat at 3 these days, and Clarke doesn't score at 4. We simply cannot afford to be relying on our number three (Khawaja) to see off the new ball once Hughes gets out to another squarer-upper as he inevitably will.

I dont think s/r really comes into it that much, I mean Dravid has been at three much of his career and has been brilliant there despite only striking in the 40's. Ponting isnt good enough to bat three anymore

 

[fairdinkum]

I dont think s/r really comes into it that much, I mean Dravid has been at three much of his career and has been brilliant there despite only striking in the 40's. Ponting isnt good enough to bat three anymore

I don't mean strike rate. I mean reflexes or 'sharpness'. When a fast bowler is pitching the new ball up, you need to be 100% or you are just waiting for trouble. Ponting hasn't been 100% now for years.

 

[lionbear]

Now that, I agree with. But it's not a bias, it's just that there are good systems in place in NSW. Hence why you've got guys like Nathan Lyon, Tom Cooper, Ed Cowan, Dan Christian, Peter Forrest and Jason Krejza plying their trades at other states. It's also why a full-strength NSW batting lineup is simply impossible to pick, and why the 5 players in contention for two opening slots in the Test side are ALL NSWmen (Watson, Hughes, Khawaja, Warner, and nominally, Katich).

Seriously, the full strength NSW batting lineup is selected from:

Watson - FC avg. 45
Hughes - FC avg. 49
Khawaja - FC avg. 47
Katich - FC avg. 53
Clarke - FC avg. 45
Warner - FC avg. 60
Smith - FC avg. 44
Maddinson - FC avg. 41
Rohrer - FC avg. 48
Jaques - FC avg. 50

You cannot look at that and tell me that NSW aren't doing something special. That's not even mentioning that Haddin averages 40, and Nevill averages 44. Then there are the guys that left NSW (but then, you have to take away Watson and Katich if you mention them, but still).

NSW have players selected for Australia because NSW have players that perform. Simple as that.

I think my original post was along the lines of there is no bias, but the coverage brings them into the spotlight quicker.

Could even the state coaches be involved in early stage(not final) discussions on selection to help the unknowns from other states improve there chances.

But it still comes back to working out how the other five states improve their systems.

 

[mediumsizered]

Now that, I agree with. But it's not a bias, it's just that there are good systems in place in NSW. Hence why you've got guys like Nathan Lyon, Tom Cooper, Ed Cowan, Dan Christian, Peter Forrest and Jason Krejza plying their trades at other states. It's also why a full-strength NSW batting lineup is simply impossible to pick, and why the 5 players in contention for two opening slots in the Test side are ALL NSWmen (Watson, Hughes, Khawaja, Warner, and nominally, Katich).

Seriously, the full strength NSW batting lineup is selected from:

Watson - FC avg. 45
Hughes - FC avg. 49
Khawaja - FC avg. 47
Katich - FC avg. 53
Clarke - FC avg. 45
Warner - FC avg. 60
Smith - FC avg. 44
Maddinson - FC avg. 41
Rohrer - FC avg. 48
Jaques - FC avg. 50

You cannot look at that and tell me that NSW aren't doing something special. That's not even mentioning that Haddin averages 40, and Nevill averages 44. Then there are the guys that left NSW (but then, you have to take away Watson and Katich if you mention them, but still).

NSW have players selected for Australia because NSW have players that perform. Simple as that.

And yet Australia is only the 4th ranked Test country (just moved up from 5th) & among those who have struggled at Test level over the last 12 months have been Hughes, Haddin, Khawaja (admittedly from limited opportunities). We have also seen Smith show that he is not terribly good at either batting or bowling at International level.

Yes, all those you have named have impressive FC averages (but then you could do the same for players from other states as well), but not too many of them are performing very well at the next level, hence why Australia is currently in the doldrums at Test level.

FWIW, I wouldn't be getting too excited about performances being put up by the likes of Krejza & Christian. Krejza is not even in Tasmania's best team & Christian is nothing more than a good ordinary cricketer.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Honestly dont rate Hughes at all. Is the worst top 6 batsman we have had in 20 years.

His 3 test centuries before he's 23 beg to differ.

 

[BarneyBent]

And yet Australia is only the 4th ranked Test country (just moved up from 5th) & among those who have struggled at Test level over the last 12 months have been Hughes, Haddin, Khawaja (admittedly from limited opportunities). We have also seen Smith show that he is not terribly good at either batting or bowling at International level.

Yes, all those you have named have impressive FC averages (but then you could do the same for players from other states as well), but not too many of them are performing very well at the next level, hence why Australia is currently in the doldrums at Test level.

FWIW, I wouldn't be getting too excited about performances being put up by the likes of Krejza & Christian. Krejza is not even in Tasmania's best team & Christian is nothing more than a good ordinary cricketer.

I'm not arguing. I'm not saying all of the players are absolute guns. It's just that NSW clearly have by far the greatest number of batsmen who are performing at FC level, so it's no surprise that they're being selected.

Ideally, every state would be doing what NSW is doing. Australian cricket would be in a much stronger position.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

I'm not arguing. I'm not saying all of the players are absolute guns. It's just that NSW clearly have by far the greatest number of batsmen who are performing at FC level, so it's no surprise that they're being selected.

Ideally, every state would be doing what NSW is doing. Australian cricket would be in a much stronger position.

It's clear that many of them aren't guns which says more about the standard of Shield cricket than anything else I can think of.

Just seems to me that we are breeding flat track bullies at almost every level.

 

[Slattery_20]

And yet Australia is only the 4th ranked Test country (just moved up from 5th) & among those who have struggled at Test level over the last 12 months have been Hughes, Haddin, Khawaja (admittedly from limited opportunities). We have also seen Smith show that he is not terribly good at either batting or bowling at International level.

haha, what??? Surely that's not right.

We moved up a spot with our first test - virtually an innings loss - in 10 months???
The rankings are a joke!

 

[Slattery_20]

I'm not arguing. I'm not saying all of the players are absolute guns. It's just that NSW clearly have by far the greatest number of batsmen who are performing at FC level, so it's no surprise that they're being selected.

Ideally, every state would be doing what NSW is doing. Australian cricket would be in a much stronger position.

IMHO most of the problem is in Vic, Sa, WA, too many kids are lost to footy.
In NSW/QLD, if you're not a specific body type (ie, if you grow a neck) you're ruled out of going anywhere with rugby/league pretty early.
In Vic/SA/WA almost any kids with half a shot at footy are going to dedicate to that; the pool is much smaller.