Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[Worm4]

And he's mentioned Richards multiple times, as if it's some sort of massive gotcha....

Oh boy.

This isnt the banter thread. We are discussing the point made that Collingwood dont lose players . For some insecure reason, the attack changes focus and Carlton players are discussed . Check the thread headline and ask yourself why Carlton players are being discussed. Stop being an clown with the rest of your mates, check yourself, and try and discuss the point at hand without any reference to Carlton players. ( hard for you i know) happy to talk about Carlton players in a carlton related thread.

 

[Fadge]

This isnt the banter thread. We are discussing the point made that Collingwood dont lose players . For some insecure reason, the attack changes focus and Carlton players are discussed . Check the thread headline and ask yourself why Carlton players are being discussed. Stop being an clown with the rest of your mates, check yourself, and try and discuss the point at hand without any reference to Carlton players. ( hard for you i know) happy to talk about Carlton players in a carlton related thread.

Tell us more about Collingwood's loss of Joe Richards...

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Tell us more about Collingwood's loss of Joe Richards...

Richards, Noble, Henry, Stephenson, Macrae, Ash Johnson

The Magpie Exodus

Will we recover?

 

[Worm4]

Tell us more about Collingwood's loss of Joe Richards...

He left Collingwood . Junior player not retained.

 

[doppleganger]

He left Collingwood . Junior player not retained.

Add him to the list of senior players Collingwood have moved on in the last 5 seasons, probably would be up to high 20s.

Just helping prove the point that the list is constantly being evolved.

The notion of some cliff that is coming linked to 2 players retiring which should lead to decision to pivot and be a development club who plays kids is bunkum.

 

[Chip Scab1]

How about we look at teams that have got all the draft picks and cant get out of the bottom 6 forever, like Carlton and Melbourne in 2000s and early 2010s and Gold Coast, Norf has had 3 seasons at the bottom and have shown zero improvement despite all the draft picks. GWS has also had heaps of draft picks but swapped a lot of them for decent players. Still havent won a flag though.

Its cool you think we are falling off a cliff despite going from 9th to 3rd this year. We will be fine and i can bet that we will be finishing above Norf for many years to come, because despite all your draft picks you still need to fill all the other holes you have in your side.

We lost to you by a point, mate. Last year it was a kick..

I know it's been a while for you, but % up by 10pips=improvement. When you factor in who missed what games, it's significant.

Again, had we had everyone available you'd be right.

So because some random team (North) fell off a cliff 6-7 years ago in a certain way, it's going to happen to Collingwood because they struggled a little late season. Have you heard of the gambler's fallacy?

More to do with average age, I assume.

A host is an interesting term.
We lose Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Howe in 1-2 years.
We lose , Elliott, DeGoey, Crisp, McStay, Houston and Moore in 3-5 years.
We will be losing 1 to 2 a year for the next 5 years. I assume that's pretty normal for most clubs.

Quality differential is substantial. Pendles is irreplaceable, Moore too probably. The rest will be carried by one of the GOATs.

He's up there, no Carey or Senior obviously, but I'd have him ahead GAJ.

 

[Worm4]

Add him to the list of senior players Collingwood have moved on in the last 5 seasons, probably would be up to high 20s.

Just helping prove the point that the list is constantly being evolved.

The notion of some cliff that is coming linked to 2 players retiring which should lead to decision to pivot and be a development club who plays kids is bunkum.

My mistake, i thought richards requested a trade. If he was moved on like you say, then it must be true

 

[Fadge]

He left Collingwood . Junior player not retained.

LOLOLOL.

26 year old junior.

It was great to see him get more opportunity and do well at a lesser team in Port Adelaide, but he and Noble were only going to to fringe players (as important as they are) at Collingwood in the foreseeable future.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Just the usual ridiculous nuffie stuff from Walshy.

You do understand the definition of an exodus is simply people departing yeah? Whether they were pushed out the door or not due to sheer incompetency, plenty of big names departed the Pies during that time.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

You do understand the definition of an exodus is simply people departing yeah? Whether they were pushed out the door or not due to sheer incompetency, plenty of big names departed the Pies during that time.

I guess when players are delisted they exit the building so that's an exodus. So every team every year has an exodus. Is that the point you are making?

 

[Cyclops]

An Exodus? Did the Collingwood player leave Jo (seph Richards) in a pit? But we have a binding contract with Isaac (Quaynor), maybe if we trade for Aaron (Naughton) he will lead us back to the promised land?

 

[Fadge]

I guess when players are delisted they exit the building so that's an exodus. So every team every year has an exodus. Is that the point you are making?

News headline every October:

'Mass Exodus from AFL! Players leaving AFL clubs in droves!'

 

[Mr Meow]

This is a pretty simple equation. It's a bit like what goes up, must come down.

The draft isn't the total panacea in football list builds, but it has clearly got an important role.

From 2019 through to 2024 the following players have been drafted to Collingwood in the National Draft:

Rantall, Bianco, Ruscoe (all gone)
Henry (gone), Macrae (gone), McInnes, Poulter (gone), McMahon (gone), McCreery
Daicos, Draper (gone), Murley (gone), Harrison
Allan, Ryan, Richards (gone)
Demattia, Jiath (one game between them in 2 years)
Cochran, West, Hayes (three games between them in one year)

Ten of the 21 are gone.

Out of the 21 only 3 are regular players.

Only the typical Collingwood hybrid nuffie thinks this is sustainable and that they're not going to pay a massive price for this disaster very very soon.

You did say Melbourne could finish top 4 and contend for a flag last year, so I'm not sure your appraisals have much credibility.

It doesn't look like Collingwood's age profile would keep them contending much longer, but clubs from the starting position of top 4 shouldn't be written off. It's a lot harder to climb there and win important finals from 10th-14th.

 

[Robertio]

Crippa is banged up and past his best. Carlton aren't winning anything with his anytime soon. Personally think Carlton would have been better off shopping Crippa around and getting a couple of decent picks for him for an injection of youth for the future.

You're lost and in the wrong thread.

 

[Mr Meow]

If only they hadn't phased him out of the GF

Geelong have still been better than 16 other clubs over the past 2 years, with Dangerfield a somewhat peripheral figure, so the point still stands.

 

[Robertio]

Why are you focussing on TDK when the comment was a general one about 'Carlton players'?

You know there is another thread for this lets talk about how the Pies will replace all theie aging stars, not all of them will play to they're 35, Tom Mitchell for example, it happens quick.

 

[Robertio]

For those of you who want to know more about Joe Richards and his departure from Collingwood - who played 9 games over two seasons with Collingwood - here it is....

View attachment 2487132

Richards better value at Port than Houston at Collingwood.

 

[Mr Meow]

I've actually worked in the Geelong program for 5 years ( and yes they know my allegiences...so ) and I'll correct you if you don't mind. Geelong didn't do anything to get Danger. Patrick and his management organised the entire thing, there was never any chance of him seeking any other team and it was only Patrick's insistence that Adelaide be sufficiently recompensed that led to the "draft capital" you described being paid to Adelaide. Jezza was a need which they paid handsomely for and as for "shrewd" trade table tactics...Ollie Henry's move was orchestrated by the club through his management mid season when he refused to sign an extension at the Pies. That "tactic" devised by the GFC to use the "go home factor" for all ex Falcons has led to the AFL now making it mandatory for top 10 picks to stay for at least 3 years.

So, in my time at the Cats they've drafted Max Holmes as an outlier to match Nick Daicos. They have had luck with their Irish players BUT their single biggest advantage is their local network which regularly nets them "sleepers" as well as their Falcon's youngsters.

If memory serves me right the 2022 Premiership Cats had:

• three sleepers (Stewart, Blicavs, Miers)
• two Irishmen
• two father / sons
• seven players traded for

And only one high draft pick that they themselves chose (Selwood)

And since then.... since they won that flag, they've made finals 2/3 years, lost or moved on seven of these players and drafted Dempsey, Mannah and Humphries and brought in Bailey Smith

In the same period, Collingwood has won a flag, made finals, lost or moved on seven of its Premiership team and drafted Jaith, Smit, Long, West, Hayes and Steele. They've also brought in Houston, Schultz, Perryman, Sullivan et al.

So....both clubs in that same period have won a flag, stayed finals relevant, moved on 7 players and drafted young players as well as topping up with imports.

Collingwood IS remotely close to Geelong in its tactics in this regard. Sorry.

Geelong have drafted much more important components of its current side over the past 6 seasons. Take out FS and Collingwood haven't drafted a hell of a lot of quality over the same period.

 

[Worm4]

LOLOLOL.

26 year old junior.

It was great to see him get more opportunity and do well at a lesser team in Port Adelaide, but he and Noble were only going to to fringe players (as important as they are) at Collingwood in the foreseeable future.

He was "moved on" at the age of 24

 

[doppleganger]

You know there is another thread for this lets talk about how the Pies will replace all theie aging stars, not all of them will play to they're 35, Tom Mitchell for example, it happens quick.

We have been replacing aging players every year, it is not a new concept.

And our current stars, not sure what definition people want to put on that? AA squad in last four seasons 2022-25 when we have contended under Fly, would that be considered a current star?

N.Daicos x3
J.Daicos x2
Houston x2 both at PA
Maynard
Crisp
Moore
Quaynor
DeGoey
Cameron
J.Elliott

Of the 10 "stars" (players who have been AA squad recently) on the list for 2026, the only players we will most likely need to replace due to retirement in the next couple of years would be Crisp, Elliott and DeGoey (if his body gives out).

Our veterans - Howe, Pendles, Sidey - we are not reliant on them anymore. Howe body is breaking down, and ask Carlton fans, many think Acres has been better than Sidey recently.

Great to have them around for their leadership and to develop their replacements though.

 

[Robertio]

We have been replacing aging players every year, it is not a new concept.

And our current stars, not sure what definition people want to put on that? AA squad in last four seasons 2022-25 when we have contended under Fly, would that be considered a current star?

N.Daicos x3
J.Daicos x2
Houston x2 both at PA
Maynard
Crisp
Moore
Quaynor
DeGoey
Cameron
J.Elliott

Of the 10 "stars" (players who have been AA squad recently) on the list for 2026, the only players we will most likely need to replace due to retirement in the next couple of years would be Crisp, Elliott and DeGoey (if his body gives out).

Our veterans - Howe, Pendles, Sidey - we are not reliant on them anymore. Howe body is breaking down, and ask Carlton fans, many think Acres has been better than Sidey recently.

Great to have them around for their leadership and to develop their replacements though.

N.Daicos x3 - star
J.Daicos x2 - good player
Houston x2 both at PA - poor year
Maynard - good player
Crisp - past it
Moore - up and down, hasn't been the same since Murphy retired
Quaynor solid B grader
DeGoey - lol
Cameron - Good year but getting on in age
J.Elliott - good year but at 34 age a big problem

 

[doppleganger]

N.Daicos x3 - star
J.Daicos x2 - good player
Houston x2 both at PA - poor year
Maynard - good player
Crisp - past it
Moore - up and down, hasn't been the same since Murphy retired
Quaynor solid B grader
DeGoey - lol
Cameron - Good year but getting on in age
J.Elliott - good year but at 34 age a big problem

So who are our stars we are needing to replace?

If DeGoey gets a LoL, you already think Crisp is past it is it only Elliott as the ageing star who we need to replace?

Elliott will be hard to replace, but hardly a crisis requiring a rebuild.

 

[Robertio]

So who are our stars we are needing to replace?

If DeGoey gets a LoL, you already think Crisp is past it is it only Elliott as the ageing star who we need to replace?

Elliott will be hard to replace, but hardly a crisis requiring a rebuild.

Pendlebury
Sisebottom
Elliot
Crisp
DeGoey
Howe

That's 6 off the top of my head and Cameron over 30 but playing well, those 6 players have been very good over the last few years and now you'll have to find 6 more to make the same impact as those 6 in the next few seasons. Maybe there's 2 or 3 on your list that will step up but that's all guess work. Maynard 30 next year as well, not all of them will play to they're 35/36

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

So who are our stars we are needing to replace?

If DeGoey gets a LoL, you already think Crisp is past it is it only Elliott as the ageing star who we need to replace?

Elliott will be hard to replace, but hardly a crisis requiring a rebuild.

Elliott is an interesting one plays and a tall/small hybrid despite being tiny by AFL standards. Probably closest player we got to him is Bobby Hill who likes to take a speckie and can be hard to stop in the air as well as at ground level. Because Hill didn't play that much last year if we can get him playing well this year he is probably the mid term Elliott replacement.
Overall Collingwood has a large amount of quality/good and developing small forwards in Elliott, Hill, Schultz, McCreery, Harrison, Hayes and Sullivan. So replacing Elliott is easily in that respect although replacing his quality might be harder.
DeGoey looked really good at the end of the year (copped a hard hit last game and didnt look good) but he does struggling with injury at times. It is not surprising that the only 2 years he played a majority of games were 2018 and 2023 where we made the grand final. If we can get him fit he is a game changer and when in form our equally most dangerous player. Definitely nothing to laugh at.
Crisp was clearly carrying something late last year and finished poorly. He is a player who during finals has one of the best players ratings going around. He normally steps up but struggled late. Maybe he is almost done but if not, he is a force and 2 times Copland winner.

 

[doppleganger]

Pendlebury
Sisebottom
Elliot
Crisp
DeGoey
Howe

So now Crisp and DeGoey are aging stars again?

Pendles is a legend and irreplaceable around the club, but he hasn't been an AA squad player since 2020.

That's 6 off the top of my head and Cameron over 30 but playing well, those 6 players have been very good over the last few years and now you'll have to find 6 more to make the same impact as those 6 in the next few seasons.

I gave you the actual 10 Pies who have made AA squad under Fly. They are the players who have had the biggest impact on-field.

Howe has been injured more often than not recently
Crisp is washed up according to you a post ago
Sidey has been outplayed by Acres
DeGoey is a LoL

A bit hard to get any consistency from your posting. If they haven't been performing on field recently they won't be hard to replace.

Maybe there's 2 or 3 on your list that will step up but that's all guess work. Maynard 30 next year as well, not all of them will play to they're 35/36

Yep, in 3-4 years time we then need to replace Moore and Cameron and then in 6-7 years it will be J.Daicos and Houston...just like we moved on from Treloar and Grundy Varcoe etc..

Pies are constantly rebuilding the list, it is a poor approach to tip out quality senior players and just have 18-19 year olds and become a development club.