Prediction Does Voss get the sack if Carlton miss finals in 2023?

[Robertio]

Lol, Bombers by 50 points, you're deluded son!

Just his opinion, mines different Carlton by 49.

 

[lizard man]

They didn't to a similarly undermanned Sydney's.

Probably need to

1. have the ball delivered somewhere in your general vicinity within the 50, ideally to some sort of advantage
2. kick it between the big sticks on the occasions you get the ball as a result of the above

before you can cause any issues. So yeah a few seemingly insurmountable steps required before that happens

Fair enough, I guess we will find out whose right on Sunday

 

[Corn Cobbers]

You don’t think curnow/McKay will cause issues to bombers defence?

Jaidyn Stephenson has kicked more goals than McKay this year

 

[My Tilly]

Carlton play a lot like Melbourne, with the list having far better key forwards (if they kick straight) but less power in the middle and less quality in the small and medium forwards. Strong defence, hard at the footy, safe and slow to not turn it over at half back, attempt to string handballs and target deep forward entries are some of the similarities.

Carlton have a bloody solid midfield though.
If they put Saad in there, it gives them outside class to go along with Cripps, Hewett, Walsh, Kennedy & Cerra.

Weitering, Young & Kemp are a better back three than half the competition.

They have no quality small forwards. Rankine would have been perfect. As too Stengle but this is where Melbourne thrive in comparison.

Voss has the cattle. Just failing to get the most out of them.

 

[Robertio]

Jaidyn Stephenson has kicked more goals than McKay this year

McKay is a wingman.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

McKay is a wingman.

I can't handle seeing a bloke getting publicly tortured, he should be shifted to the backline

 

[lizard man]

Jaidyn Stephenson has kicked more goals than McKay this y

Jaidyn Stephenson has kicked more goals than McKay this year

I think McKay will bounce back in the second half of the year …. Just needs to sort out his mental demons

 

[master bate]

Carlton have a bloody solid midfield though.
If they put Saad in there, it gives them outside class to go along with Cripps, Hewett, Walsh, Kennedy & Cerra.

Weitering, Young & Kemp are a better back three than half the competition.

They have no quality small forwards. Rankine would have been perfect. As too Stengle but this is where Melbourne thrive in comparison.

Voss has the cattle. Just failing to get the most out of them.

Is Saad a midfielder? Doubt he has the tank for wing or the contested ball for on ball?

Plus they lack run from the backline if he goes on ball.

They already lack skill from the backline by not having Docherty back controlling things. Last thing they need is to remove their only line breaker.

If they play those 3 talls and McGovern they are top heavy. McGov is needed because he moves it on quickly, but he can butcher it.

That Carlton midfield you’ve named is all one paced and Cripps hasn’t been bursting through as he was last year. You need burst and skills to balance out a midfield. Cerra can be a good kick if released in to space but he can’t find space. Otherwise it’s a bunch of handball first players who can’t get drive out of congestion.

Coaching is a factor but there’s a reason why the Carlton mids just handball to each other before someone bangs it on the boot under pressure. That’s exactly how they’re designed to play due to their composition.

 

[My Tilly]

Walsh isn't one dimensional. He has turn of speed but Saad wouldn't be a bad option.
Their season is hanging in the balance. Time to experiment and try some things.

Even Goodwin is doing so and he has his side well entrenched inside the eight.

 

[Rich01]

You said Sayers is the one constant in all the above (and Cripps). Reasonable implication to draw imo, but whatever yep agree with the review aspect.

Just on that - do clubs usually get in external people to do the review? I think its exactly what we need, just curious if thats the norm or not?

Yeah I just made an observation about the constants.

I’ve questioned Sayers ‘independent’ review in the past. He had a pre-determined outcome that he had proven by scrutinising some but not other areas of the club.

From an outsiders pov Sayers and Cripps being the constants is a problem. A lack of a fully independent review and results doctored to ensure Teague was the only scapegoat raises eyebrows. As with the playing group having too much say in the appointment and sacking of coaches. This was evident in the Teague appointment (which was player driven) and sacking (which was driven mainly by player feedback).

But as I said, without a full independent review, it’s hard to say exactly who is to blame.

If Voss ends up taking the full brunt without any further action, the blues will not have learnt from their past actions.

 

[Milux]

Do you not expect better from your list?

This is the part that annoys me. Carltons list is terrible past it's top 4 or 5. Now I get not everyone has to be a superstar but they're second tier mids are shocking. Saad couldn't hit the side of a barn out of defence.

Now being exposed even more so with their captain refusing to lay a tackle and he is too slow to apply pressure. If its not on the ground in front of him he doesn't get it.

Walsh is their only player who looks like he gives a damn. Feel sorry for the kid.

Curnow and McKay can't kick to save themselves (this year). If they had of kicked straighter a few times we may not even be in the thread.

Alot of these issues aren't Voss's fault nor has he had the time to rectify list issues. I really feel that Carltons list has been criminally over rated since the start of last year and people expect it to just "happen".

 

[Blue1980]

Too much talent to be sitting 14th on the ladder, sacking a second year coach is pretty much never a good idea especially when he’s not the problem …… Carlton onfield leaders need to sit down and have an honesty session ….. guarantee many clubs will race to get vossy’s signature if he gets the sack

Should Melbourne have stuck it out with mark Neeld?

North with David Noble?

 

[Blue1980]

You don’t think curnow/McKay will cause issues to bombers defence?

We can’t get the ball to them, we move it so slowly we end up bombing it in and just hoping one of them get a free kick, where our other forwards are god knows where.

We will struggle to score more than 50 points, let alone win.

 

[Blue1980]

Cripps
Plowman
Hamburger McGovern
Martin
Me
Teaguee.
SOS

Well I think it’s being led by Cripps, who seemingly hates any coach who wants him to do any defensive running, maybe only for those peasant players.

I think it would be similar to the ones who were anti Teague, so I’d add:

Docherty
JSOS
Fisher (hes crippas mate)
Young (Weiters seems in the pro Voss camp and either sees young as an idiot who can’t follow a game plan or young is anti Voss, or both)
TDK (probably using it as some sort of excuse to leave)


In the pro Voss camp, I will guess:
Weiters
Walsh
Curnow boys
Harry
Cerra

 

[Blue1980]

This is the part that annoys me. Carltons list is terrible past it's top 4 or 5. Now I get not everyone has to be a superstar but they're second tier mids are shocking. Saad couldn't hit the side of a barn out of defence.

Now being exposed even more so with their captain refusing to lay a tackle and he is too slow to apply pressure. If its not on the ground in front of him he doesn't get it.

Walsh is their only player who looks like he gives a damn. Feel sorry for the kid.

Curnow and McKay can't kick to save themselves (this year). If they had of kicked straighter a few times we may not even be in the thread.

Alot of these issues aren't Voss's fault nor has he had the time to rectify list issues. I really feel that Carltons list has been criminally over rated since the start of last year and people expect it to just "happen".

The list isn’t perfect, no one’s list is but it isn’t bottom 4 bad. If we continue playing as we are, we will win 1-2 more games rest of the year, and possibly be the lowest scoring side in the last 50 years.

So many players have regressed since last year, that clearly something is up. I think it’s a combination of a bad game plan, some interrupted pre seasons, others carrying injuries and a toxic group of senior players who begin blaming the coach when things go badly as that is what they have always done.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

My question stands...

How much better do you think Carlton's list is currently compared to Richmond's 2011/12 list, when they had 8 and 10 win seasons (Hardwick's 2nd and 3rd year's in the role).

Because I don't think there's much difference at all.

And yet Richmond were effectively on the rise, Carlton on the slide. Doesn't really support your argument.

 

[Fadge]

And yet Richmond were effectively on the rise, Carlton on the slide. Doesn't really support your argument.

Carlton on the slide? Sliding from where?

My point is, Voss possibly overachieved last year with Carlton's list, and yes they're in a rut right now, and everyone is calling for his head as yet another quick fix?

 

[AceAndy]

Honestly i think Vossy is a great bloke, great leader but tactically he seems out of his depth. Just my thoughts

I havent seen any suggestion that he is not a great bloke but as you say game plan, strategy, game day moves dont seem to be his strong suit.

Hard to see him keeping his job if we miss finals, losses to essendon and gold coast will probably see him gone at the bye.

 

[Freomaniac]

Hahaha…our club was a laughing stock for 3 decades. During this time, the longest streak we had without making a Prelim was 16-years. Carlton is up to 23-years without a PF.

Richmond might be out of contention for a few years, who knows …. but I’ll be pretty flat if we haven’t made top-4 by 2042 which we’d need to do in order to match Carlton…

But even if that did happen, at least it would have been on the back of 3 x flags, unlike Carlton’s 23-year ‘no PF’ streak on the back of a single flag 5-years prior that the Blues cheated to attain….



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See this is an ineresting post....

Carlton is up to 23 years without a prelim final. But they nearly made one in 2011 had they kicked one more goal vs the eagles in that semi final in perth.

To me personally... If my Dockers doesnt make a prelim final from now until say 2029, remarkably it wont bother me. If my team makes finals for 4-5 years in a row and wins one or 2 finals in that 4-5 year period of finals, well I can live with that.

I still remember one random poster many years ago bagging out the bulldogs back in 2007 for not making a prelim final since 1998. Every AFL side from 1999-2007 made a prelim final once, except for the bulldogs in that period.

 

[Freomaniac]

We went 13-years from 1982-1995. And 16-years from 2001-2017, when there were 16 and then 18 sides.

But you’re probably right, making a PF is pretty difficult over a 23-year period with more teams [emoji23].

The other funny thing is it’s 4 x wooden spoons a piece … but as you just outlined, it’s much ‘harder’ to win a wooden spoon with 16-18 teams compared to 12 with Richmond..

So we’ve perhaps established that Carlton’s last 23-years is worse than the worst 23-year stretch Richmond experienced in the tin rattling days. In any 23-year stretch you select Richmond made 2 x PF’s.

In an era of equalisation and all clubs being financially sound that’s just extraordinary.

I wonder what the longest streak without a top-4 finish is before Carlton’s 23-years and counting?


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1st off im gonna bring up 1982-1993.

From 1982-1986, It was only 5 finals spots for 12 teams.

from 1987-1990, it was 5 finals spots for 14 sides.

from 1991-1993, it was 6 finals spots for 14 sides.


I have spoken about richmonds 1994-2012 period a few times on here. Yep only finals in 1995 and 2001.

Then you got those years when richmond finished 9th in 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2006 and 2008.

Turn those 9th placed finishes into 8th placed finals spots and that 1990-2001 era would look way more better. That means finals in 1994-6, 1998 and 2000-01. That core of 1990s tigers of Matty Richardson, Paul Broderick, Matty Knights, Brendon Gale and Wayne Campbell would of looked back at that era fondly had that finals run happened.



To answer your final line... the longest streak without top 4? I dont know. I can tell you the longest finals streak, or the longest amount of years with no finals wins... 51 years.

Swans last finals win was in 1945. they made a grand final and lost. Their next finals win was until they made their nest grand final, that was in 1996.

 

[Milux]

The list isn’t perfect, no one’s list is but it isn’t bottom 4 bad. If we continue playing as we are, we will win 1-2 more games rest of the year, and possibly be the lowest scoring side in the last 50 years.

So many players have regressed since last year, that clearly something is up. I think it’s a combination of a bad game plan, some interrupted pre seasons, others carrying injuries and a toxic group of senior players who begin blaming the coach when things go badly as that is what they have always done.

I agree 100% with the regression and yes it's not a bottom 4 list. But I think the over reaction from the start of last season and the pump up from the media the blues got before this season hasn't helped one little bit.

I think Voss can turn it around. Maybe some of those senior players need to be moved on.

 

[bourbons]

Carlton on the slide? Sliding from where?

My point is, Voss possibly overachieved last year with Carlton's list, and yes they're in a rut right now, and everyone is calling for his head as yet another quick fix?

Of course everyone (well not everyone but I take your point in regards to the general rhetoric, media etc) is calling for his head - have you watched many Carlton games this year?

Some of the most repulsive footy you will ever see, pretty regularly producing 50 odd points for the game even in perfect conditions. Think we're all in agreement that while it isn't a top 4 list its not a bottom 4 one either. That the coach of a team performing like this is under the pump is perhaps the least surprising thing ever, what else would you expect?

 

[bourbons]

I agree 100% with the regression and yes it's not a bottom 4 list. But I think the over reaction from the start of last season and the pump up from the media the blues got before this season hasn't helped one little bit.

I think Voss can turn it around. Maybe some of those senior players need to be moved on.

You're not wrong there lol. Said at the start of the season we usually deal with pressure and expectation exceptionally well

 

[Pistol Night]

You're not wrong there lol. Said at the start of the season we usually deal with pressure and expectation exceptionally well

Massive respect mate. Every campaigner is just piling into your club here and your replying rationally and calmly. Most would of cracked the shits and started picking faults in the posters club by now. Kudos

 

[bourbons]

Massive respect mate. Every campaigner is just piling into your club here and your replying rationally and calmly. Most would of cracked the shits and started picking faults in the posters club by now. Kudos

Ha, cheers mate. What can you do it is what it is, ya gotta laugh or else you'd cry.

Definitely no interest in the ra ra my club has won more flags type stuff, shits me to tears.