Autopsy Dogs apparently NOT out coached again... but still find a way to lose 78 v 73

[Dog 36]

Bailey Dale gets caught hold in the ball and this is what you use to determine that our coach has no plan??

FMD

No it is a sample

Are you convinced there was a plan?

The shot from behind the goal showed our 18 players on the field like stunned mullets.

If there is a plan why do we concede goal after goal after goal again and again and been happening so often and it continues to.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

No it is a sample

Are you convinced there was a plan?

The shot from behind the goal showed our 18 players on the field like stunned mullets.

If there is a plan why do we concede goal after goal after goal again and again and been happening so often and it continues to.

No you’re right. There is no plan. The players just some how know what to do on the footy field.

The hours spent on the training track must be kick to kick sessions and the in week meetings and pre game prep must be used to watch Home and Away re-runs.

Thanks for the eye opener.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Totally agree with what you are saying about managing the game situation. What we don't know is whether the players were just slack or whether they had proper training in how to handle those situations.

In most team sports it's a common training drill to practise (and to discuss) what to do in a close finish, either when you are protecting a narrow lead or when you are trying to overcome a narrow deficit to snatch a win. I hope we actually do that stuff in training sometimes. Or do we just play BevBall 100% of the time? Even if we do those drills, how well are they done, do the players know the triggers to start playing that way at the same time, what concomitant moves and instructions are required from the coaches box, especially when other factors come into it like injuries to key players? And so on.

So it comes back to the old question of is it a deficiency in the players or in the coaching or in the on-field leadership. Or some combination of those.

Whoever is to blame it was a very bad look on Saturday. Watching that last hour of play it's not unreasonable to conclude we are poorly drilled and somewhat undisciplined in such things. To my mind that mostly comes back to the coaching.

Let's ask ourselves how a team like Collingwood or Port plays out a game in the same circumstances. And why in fact they very rarely let those opportunities slip (because if we'd saved 3-4 of those games we'd be right up there with them in the top 4). Would they do the same things? If not, why not? Is it just down to the different personnel on the field? Is it their on-field leadership? Or perhaps that they are more cohesive because they all understand and have bought into the various strategies they have to use in different situations?

They aren't entirely rhetorical questions BTW ... I'd genuinely like to know what the answers are.

Interesting discussion.

Planning for those situations is Footy 101, surely.

I still recall a scene from "Year of the Dogs" where the runner (C Burton) calls out to Steve Wallis, "Wal, shut down. Shut down!"
Even as a bottom side, we had a plan, or plans, for various scenarios.

Sadly, I don't feel like our current coaching staff think like that. Simply back in Plan A and play like it will all come together if we keep doing it.

Jack Hill, the blind miner, could see we needed to change things up in the second half on Saturday

 

[doggies ftw]

Bailey Dale gets caught hold in the ball and this is what you use to determine that our coach has no plan??

FMD

Yeah nah it’s a valid point, everyone I was watching that game with (mostly neutrals who watch a lot of footy) agreed that Dale wasn’t entirely to blame for that * up. He had literally zero options on and was caught in two minds when tasked with making magic out of dog s**t.

This is the issue, our transition game from defence is almost entirely based around letting Dale find a risky target somewhere, or going wide to the boundary. It’s a shambles.

 

[Dog 36]

No you’re right. There is no plan. The players just some how know what to do on the footy field.

The hours spent on the training track must be kick to kick sessions and the in week meetings and pre game prep must be used to watch Home and Away re-runs.

Thanks for the eye opener.

When B Dale had the ball ready to kick in vs Sydney do you believe each player on the ground knew exactly where to be when? Yes or No will suffice

 

[hutchy31]

Plan or no plan. Dale has fluffed a few kick ins this year and Bevo has gone off at him on the bench, which tells me there is a plan, but Dale makes poor decisions sometimes and goes away from it.

Running too far, or kicking short dinky kicks to Keath with 100 guys on him, or kicking it to his opponent isn't lack of plan. It is lack of execution and poor decision making on Dales behalf.

This is one of the minor things I'd be considering changing. Dale and Daniel took our kick ins because they were the best chance at hitting up a target. That's not necessarily true anymore, for whatever reason (confidence, opposition taking it away more frequently, surrounding personnel not as strong).

As such, if we have one or both of JJ or Richards in the team I'd be giving them a decent chunk of the kick ins. JJ can use his legs then target the wing, particularly in a game where territory is key, or Richards can have it as I'd trust him more to pull off a kick to a teammate than Dale atm. Plus if you don't have a target and need to launch it, both might be longer kicks (I would think) than Dale.

We don't know what's being said behind the scenes, maybe there is a degree of mixing it up (or at least trying to) - but the evidence every weekend seems to just point to "do everything as we've always done it, just do it better for longer and don't make mistakes". Watching it just feels stale and predictable, and no wonder opposition coaches can get on top once we stop dominating in contested ball, clearance etc (which you can't do for 120 minutes).

Ironically the one area where the club does mix it up is at the selection table, when probably there needs to be less tinkering on at least some occasions.

 

[yebach]

No you’re right. There is no plan. The players just some how know what to do on the footy field.

The hours spent on the training track must be kick to kick sessions and the in week meetings and pre game prep must be used to watch Home and Away re-runs.

Thanks for the eye opener.

So the plan is to stand there like stunned Mullets and not offer options?

 

[Bulldogs85]

Coaches votes

Western Bulldogs v Greater Western Sydney​

10 Toby Greene

4

Toby Greene

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.2

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.0

2star

G

2.3

5star

D

26.6

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

14.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.6

5star

G

0.0

1star

(GWS)
7 Sam Taylor

15

Sam Taylor

Age

24

Ht

198cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.1

4star

MG

130.5

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

60.8

1star

D

8.6

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.8

5star

MG

110.8

2star

(GWS)
5 Bailey Dale

31

Bailey Dale

Age

27

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.6

4star

MG

117.4

2star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.7

3star

MG

117.4

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

4star

(WB)
4 Adam Treloar

1

Adam Treloar

Age

31

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.2

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

15.3

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

30.3

5star

K

16.3

5star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.3

4star

CL

5.8

5star

D

18.0

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

1.6

4star

(WB)
2 Lachie Whitfield

6

Lachie Whitfield

Age

29

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

9.3

5star

M

6.3

5star

T

2.7

4star

MG

411.8

5star

D

21.4

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

8.9

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.8

3star

MG

350.6

5star

D

17.6

5star

K

8.2

4star

HB

9.4

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

(GWS)
1 Josh Kelly (GWS)
1 Tom Liberatore (WB)

 

[Oliver G]

Does the Goal Chance factor in weather conditions (wind in this case) or is it a no variables calculation?

No it doesn't. From memory the first miss from Scott was understandable, he aimed it in the right place but the wind just took it a tad too far. The second one was horrible as it was so soon after the last one and from a similar distance and should've known where to place it.

 

[_Cerberus_]

This is one of the minor things I'd be considering changing. Dale and Daniel took our kick ins because they were the best chance at hitting up a target. That's not necessarily true anymore, for whatever reason (confidence, opposition taking it away more frequently, surrounding personnel not as strong).

As such, if we have one or both of JJ or Richards in the team I'd be giving them a decent chunk of the kick ins. JJ can use his legs then target the wing, particularly in a game where territory is key, or Richards can have it as I'd trust him more to pull off a kick to a teammate than Dale atm. Plus if you don't have a target and need to launch it, both might be longer kicks (I would think) than Dale.

We don't know what's being said behind the scenes, maybe there is a degree of mixing it up (or at least trying to) - but the evidence every weekend seems to just point to "do everything as we've always done it, just do it better for longer and don't make mistakes". Watching it just feels stale and predictable, and no wonder opposition coaches can get on top once we stop dominating in contested ball, clearance etc (which you can't do for 120 minutes).

Ironically the one area where the club does mix it up is at the selection table, when probably there needs to be less tinkering on at least some occasions.

I'd rather JJ and Richards to take more of them as well. Dales poor decisions, and Daniels inability to thump it far over the packs means I would like to see more rotations, give others a crack.

Also think we need to be quicker with the kick outs, and stop letting teams set up. We also tend to get out marked when the ball is kicked to the packs. We need at least one of English or Naughton in the area. Its the area between the defensive 50 arc, and the center circle where we seem to stagnate the most when moving forward from kick ins.

 

[Smiley Boy]

Coaches votes

Western Bulldogs v Greater Western Sydney​

10 Toby Greene (GWS)
7 Sam Taylor (GWS)
5 Bailey Dale (WB)
4 Adam Treloar (WB)
2 Lachie Whitfield (GWS)
1 Josh Kelly (GWS)
1 Tom Liberatore (WB)

How did English not poll a single vote here? Wild

 

[doggies ftw]

I'd rather JJ and Richards to take more of them as well. Dales poor decisions, and Daniels inability to thump it far over the packs means I would like to see more rotations, give others a crack.

Also think we need to be quicker with the kick outs, and stop letting teams set up. We also tend to get out marked when the ball is kicked to the packs. We need at least one of English or Naughton in the area. Its the area between the defensive 50 arc, and the center circle where we seem to stagnate the most when moving forward from kick ins.

Yeah why on earth does one of our best marks (English) run to the boundary 30m from goal every single kick out for the short option. Surely anyone else can do that and you keep your marking targets, Yaknow, as marking targets.

We have 3 tall forwards and a ruck and yet we still barely have one of these talls contest the mark from the kick in, it’s usually a Doc or Williams etc

We’re the worst coached team in the league, it’s genuinely amateur level

 

[tonzdogs]

Have to agree. I’m 44 now and have followed the club my whole life, like so many others in here. This is probably the worst I’ve ever felt. Growing up in Hobart, you just learned not to tell people who you followed because there wasn’t too much to be proud of and you were part of such a minority. Internally I was proud that my club had saved itself from extinction but outsiders that followed the big clubs would never have grasped that feeling. We had some moments where we came close in the 90s but still never felt like it would happen and always felt like the club was living pay cheque to pay cheque. The Rohde years were awful and the BMac years were hard at times too. I never felt we were near success under those two coaches and I set my expectations accordingly. 2016 needs no commentary. I now feel myself totally out of love with the club and the game itself. The predominant reason is because I feel that this team could and should be challenging. Instead they tease, wilt under pressure, give up momentum and goals consistently like no other, and ultimately, they fail whenever an opportunity presents itself. Not so long ago we were playing to consolidate a spot in the top 4. Perfectly to script, we went on a losing streak. It happens in games too. We build a small lead, miss easy goals and the inevitable happens. This isn’t a rarity, it happens with alarming regularity. I’ve always been a guy who loyally pays for a membership year after year, but I’m wondering now why I’d keep paying for something I no longer enjoy. The reason I do and will continue to do so is because the club is bigger than me, bigger than any one player or coach, and I don’t want kids to have to experience the dark days of survival like a lot of us did.

Apologies, that ended up longer than I planned!


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

It’s the culture of the club that needs to change. What we need is a strong leader. A guy that is gonna come into the club to become a president like Jeff Kennett was at Hawthorn. We need a mindset that if you walk into our club as a player, you are EXPECTED to win premierships. Not just be happy with the occasional finals win

 

[tonzdogs]

How did English not poll a single vote here? Wild

Because he only played for a half like many others!

 

[Charlie Bucket]

So the plan is to stand there like stunned Mullets and not offer options?

Your logic is that, if the players make mistakes, it’s because our coach hasn’t implemented a plan not too?

Have you given any thought to the fact the players sometimes don’t do what’s expected?

I actually can’t believe we’re even having this discussion.

 

[cleveland]

Our high forward defensive line is a relic from back in the distant past when we had Wood to intercept and he with Murphy and Biggs et Al were able to rebound the other way.
When needed M Boyd could slow things down and get everyone to calm the * down so we could reset

. We were also great at a forward press , not allowing the opposition to break out with easy kicks from defence , pressuring them into harder kicks and reclaiming the ball with our midfield intensity .


That’s essentially how we beat Essendon last week, they played a conservative measured game from defence that played into our hands .

But in 2023 we only have Richards and Dale as our true rebounding defenders . They aren’t tall enough to do what the likes of Easton Wood could do . Plus they’re too busy playing deep mopping up the sh1t that comes their way. Richards tries his best and plays tall.

Ryan Gardner can’t rebound because he can’t mark the ball unless it’s in his breadbasket and has no idea how to take the game on .

Keath prances around the place but never looks like he knows where he’s going , like a fawn on the ice .

Liam Jones does know how to do it but it was always a risk to base your defence around a 32 year old .

In 2023 risk/reward , fast direct footy is king . Decent teams aren’t going to twiddle their thumbs allowing us to set up a press.

TLDR; scrap the high press and respect the opposition.

In fairness, the injury he copped wpuld have happened to any player. Young or old. Not soft tissue etc

 

[dogwatch]

It’s the culture of the club that needs to change. What we need is a strong leader. A guy that is gonna come into the club to become a president like Jeff Kennett was at Hawthorn. We need a mindset that if you walk into our club as a player, you are EXPECTED to win premierships. Not just be happy with the occasional finals win

Be careful what you wish for. Change is needed but we don’t want to end up like certain other “whatever it takes” clubs.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Yeah nah it’s a valid point, everyone I was watching that game with (mostly neutrals who watch a lot of footy) agreed that Dale wasn’t entirely to blame for that * up. He had literally zero options on and was caught in two minds when tasked with making magic out of dog s**t.

This is the issue, our transition game from defence is almost entirely based around letting Dale find a risky target somewhere, or going wide to the boundary. It’s a shambles.

Valid point? Lol.

Of course Dale’s not to blame. His teammates provided no options, so he had to run and carry and got caught holding the ball.

In what universe is that a tactical issue by the coaches? The coach instructed them to randomly stop providing marking options for our kick in after providing options the 10 kick in’s prior??

 

[Dogs Rule]

Have to agree. I’m 44 now and have followed the club my whole life, like so many others in here. This is probably the worst I’ve ever felt. Growing up in Hobart, you just learned not to tell people who you followed because there wasn’t too much to be proud of and you were part of such a minority. Internally I was proud that my club had saved itself from extinction but outsiders that followed the big clubs would never have grasped that feeling. We had some moments where we came close in the 90s but still never felt like it would happen and always felt like the club was living pay cheque to pay cheque. The Rohde years were awful and the BMac years were hard at times too. I never felt we were near success under those two coaches and I set my expectations accordingly. 2016 needs no commentary. I now feel myself totally out of love with the club and the game itself. The predominant reason is because I feel that this team could and should be challenging. Instead they tease, wilt under pressure, give up momentum and goals consistently like no other, and ultimately, they fail whenever an opportunity presents itself. Not so long ago we were playing to consolidate a spot in the top 4. Perfectly to script, we went on a losing streak. It happens in games too. We build a small lead, miss easy goals and the inevitable happens. This isn’t a rarity, it happens with alarming regularity. I’ve always been a guy who loyally pays for a membership year after year, but I’m wondering now why I’d keep paying for something I no longer enjoy. The reason I do and will continue to do so is because the club is bigger than me, bigger than any one player or coach, and I don’t want kids to have to experience the dark days of survival like a lot of us did.

Apologies, that ended up longer than I planned!


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Echo these sentiments. Little bit younger, but grew up in the 90s and was ecstatic with every win, cried at every loss.

The only way I can describe our game style now is a dirge. If I can't watch a game live, I'll tape it and the amount of times I fast forward through to the point of thinking 'I can see what's going to happen here, just hurry up and lose.'

We had hard times in the 90s, the 00s and the 10s, but this is different. We should be so much better and that's the most frustrating part.

We've had significantly less talented sides in the past that showed more character and fight in five minutes than our current crop have shown in five months. The amount of games in the 90s and 00s where we fought and scrapped our way over the line. Just show some ticker, show some fight, please.

 

[doggies ftw]

Valid point? Lol.

You’re just as fried as these other posters Doggo.

Of course Dale’s not to blame. His teammates provided no options, so he had to run and carry and got caught holding the ball.

In what universe is that a tactical issue by the coaches? The coach instructed them to randomly stop providing marking options for our kick in after providing options the 10 kick in’s prior??

This joints starting to resemble a cooker thread on Telegram

Mate I wouldn’t go calling others cookers if you truly believe we provided options the 10 previous kick ins

It’s a serious issue that plagues us every single week, we are absolutely terrible at setting up from kick ins and almost always play it safe and short to the boundary



Without fail our go to kick is 30m tight on the boundary, and then long to a contest around the boundary. There is no dare in this football team - surprise surprise when the game situation requires us to not kick to the boundary as we need to score, we have NFI what to do - hence what happened to Dale.

I’m sorry if you don’t believe this is a coaching issue you’ve got no idea

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Mate I wouldn’t go calling others cookers if you truly believe we provided options the 10 previous kick ins

It’s a serious issue that plagues us every single week, we are absolutely terrible at setting up from kick ins and almost always play it safe and short to the boundary

View attachment 1761235

Without fail our go to kick is 30m tight on the boundary, and then long to a contest around the boundary. There is no dare in this football team - surprise surprise when the game situation requires us to not kick to the boundary as we need to score, we have NFI what to do - hence what happened to Dale.

I’m sorry if you don’t believe this is a coaching issue you’ve got no idea

Playing it safe isn’t hitting the short option, it’s going as long as you can to a contest. That’s why it’s the last option a player takes if there’s nothing on short to hit up.

Rule number 1 for kick ins, find/create a short option you can hit.

It’s now clear as day you’ve never played a game of footy in your life. But, don’t stress doggo, there’s quite a few others in here in the same boat.

 

[MaxiBont]

I don’t post much and rarely on game analysis threads. Girls didn’t play footy when I grew up so I don’t have the game playing experience that others on here clearly have. And I don’t have any ins at the Club like others so I can’t really comment on whether the coach is arrogant or stubborn or not being listened to.

But for what it’s worth and how it looked to me at the game, moving Lobb down back looked like it was well worth a crack. We’d lost two tall defenders and up forward Naughton, despite being beaten, looked liked the only forward likely to take a grab and score the goal/s we needed to arrest momentum/uphold the margin. ‘Marra didn’t look like holding one after quarter time, Weightman was off his game and not crumbing like he needed to in windy conditions and Scott was trying hard but not tall enough or kicking straight. We also sent Williams down there to help Lobb and it seemed we dropped Bont back behind the ball more often.

I don’t know whether it was a well coached game or not, but I do know that as well as stopping goals, we need to score to snuff out a run. Perhaps we could have mixed it up a bit and rotated both Naughton and Lobb down back, but it certainly seemed to me that Naughton was the forward most likely to mark/score and there was no one around him who could hold it in the F50 when the ball hit the ground. Lobb wasn’t going to change that up forward and at least when the ball was on the ground in the B50 he had Williams, Dale, and Dureya having a crack around him.

Gutted for Josh.

I completely agree with your reasoning but the only reason I disagree is because of the game situation we were in.

If we needed to kick goals moving Lobb down back would have been the way to go. As you say Naugton was our most threatening forward throughout the game and you don't move your best forward when you're chasing the lead.

However, the decision to put Lobb back occurred when we were 4-5 goals up and Giants were kicking with the wind. It was more likely that the ball would live in their forward 50 for that third quarter. Naugton may not have been able to change the result but he would have put in a much better shift that Lobb did down back. Naughton was a KPD when he was drafted and knows how to play it a lot better. It was all about surviving that 3Q with 2 KPDs and putting Lobb back instead of Naughton made that a lot harder imo.

 

[bresker]

I’m no coach but I would have got Lobb to ruck 90% of the time , dropped English in a high marking sweeping role in front of the backs and got Bont to drag Ward back / forward .

Lobb did nothing forward or back so he may as well ruck .

Maybe I’m a relic of the past but many a game has been saved by a ruck dropping back , the ball seems to find them at the right time .

 

[tonzdogs]

Valid point? Lol.

You’re just as fried as these other posters Doggo.

Of course Dale’s not to blame. His teammates provided no options, so he had to run and carry and got caught holding the ball.

In what universe is that a tactical issue by the coaches? The coach instructed them to randomly stop providing marking options for our kick in after providing options the 10 kick in’s prior??

This joints starting to resemble a cooker thread on Telegram

I think you’re the one who’s fried. How do you explain the opposition runs of goals that has been happening almost weekly since 2021 GF??? Why doesn’t the coach change tactics to protect leads??? Why do we constantly cop goals in red time of quarters? I seriously think you’re just another nuffy know it all, Bevo lover, who just loves disagreeing with anyone who brings up relevant posts.

 

[dardog]

Rule number 1 for kick ins, find/create a short option you can hit.

That is definitley not rule number 1 for AFL or even local footy...

Amazing how far in denial so much of our fanbase is in over an absolute sub-par coach with a gamestyle so out of touch with the rest of competition.
I am curious, how far is too much until you may admit Bevo is a contributing factor to our below-standard performances year in year out with this list?

The fact you have the utter nerve to call other posters fried when recently you tried to state that top four finishes don't mean s**t in another thread is just laughable, get a grip.