Opinion Don't fall for it

[dansa]

Satisfaction & self-worth through winding other people up and garnering negative attention is such a strange psychology.

 

[ksardog]

Why does everybody get sucked in by certain posters and keep responding to their crap?
We all know, (well it appears to be the case) that these same posters are clearly out to get a rise from firing people up.
I must admit there are many times I've read certain posts and nearly been sucked in by typing a response only to think better of it and delete it.
Let's just ignore them and and don't give them the attention they are seeking.

Name and shame

 

[Pendles!]

The only thing that annoys me are the ones who derail every single ******* thread with the same mindless rhetoric and hyperbole and aren't there to have constructive discussions. They are the digital equivalent to those campaigners you see at the football who are going to tell everyone within ear shot their worthless ******* opinion of everything and who won't respond to you with any valid arguments if you challenge them.

These particular parasites should be IP banned.

I think you'll find they are the same people!

 

[dansa]

Name and shame

That's exactly what they crave. They want to be known and feel important.
It's strange.

 

[Good_Old]

Aww, why did the thread title get changed.

Now my A grade zinger doesn't make any sense.

 

[jmac70]

I went through the "Buckly Coaching" megathread tonight and deleted all the carpers. The board is looking much better now.

 

[surfer1]

Not sure I agree with you there Good_Old. This is a forum in which people use language and images to interact with each other. It is far more than a message board. The OP makes a good point and I am as guilty as anymore for responding to certain posters who in my opinion have an agenda. The Marsh Injury thread is a good example of how some people use a topic that we should all be in agreement on to try and annoy the rest of the board.

Sorry for the ignorance but I have never understood who or what is the OP

 

[Good_Old]

Sorry for the ignorance but I have never understood who or what is the OP

In this context it's usually either "Opening Post" or "Opening Poster".

Other circumstances it's often used as "Over Powered" or "On Point".

 

[MyManLynch]

Original Post - I always assumed.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Was talking to a young pies fan at work. She mentioned the following
The players all hate Bucks
We're going backwards fast and will be bottom 4 next year.
There's no gameplan
Should've won three flags
We should get Mick back
What about our structures?
Those around us just had a look of dread, looked at me shaking their heads and walked away before I had a chance to reply. I walked away too. I don't feel good about ignoring her, not because she deserved a reply but because I should have shot her down. She's in trouble when I get back to work.
It's hard to ignore posters who do not take into account the large number of variables that affect team performance.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Was talking to a young pies fan at work. She mentioned the following
The players all hate Bucks
We're going backwards fast and will be bottom 4 next year.
There's no gameplan
Should've won three flags
We should get Mick back
What about our structures?
Those around us just had a look of dread, looked at me shaking their heads and walked away before I had a chance to reply. I walked away too. I don't feel good about ignoring her, not because she deserved a reply but because I should have shot her down. She's in trouble when I get back to work.
It's hard to ignore posters who do not take into account the large number of variables that affect team performance.

Stop talking to young pies fans at work, most of them will think they know everything and you know nothing

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Stop talking to young pies fans at work, most of them will think they know everything and you know nothing

Was in a conversation with a colleague who's in in the AFL system about the ramifications of the 2011 GF loss. Soon after the loss, he predicted what the club would have to do in order to have another serious crack. So we were talking about his predictions and the young colleague interjected and pretty much shook her head saying that everything was wrong.
Now, most of what he predicted has happened and hasn't raised eyebrows at the club he is involved with. She wouldn't have a bar of it and then went off on her rant. Hard to ignore Jack.

 

[ottoman]

Was talking to a young pies fan at work. She mentioned the following
The players all hate Bucks
We're going backwards fast and will be bottom 4 next year.
There's no gameplan
Should've won three flags
We should get Mick back
What about our structures?
Those around us just had a look of dread, looked at me shaking their heads and walked away before I had a chance to reply. I walked away too. I don't feel good about ignoring her, not because she deserved a reply but because I should have shot her down. She's in trouble when I get back to work.
It's hard to ignore posters who do not take into account the large number of variables that affect team performance.

You work with Thatsgold?

 

[Scodog10]

Was talking to a young pies fan at work. She mentioned the following
The players all hate Bucks
We're going backwards fast and will be bottom 4 next year.
There's no gameplan
Should've won three flags
We should get Mick back
What about our structures?
Those around us just had a look of dread, looked at me shaking their heads and walked away before I had a chance to reply. I walked away too. I don't feel good about ignoring her, not because she deserved a reply but because I should have shot her down. She's in trouble when I get back to work.
It's hard to ignore posters who do not take into account the large number of variables that affect team performance.

Good on you for not responding you'd only be getting down to her level

I personally happen to think your off the mark with some of your views, but you know what they're your views and it shits me when posters try to railroad others so you won't see me denying them!

At the end of the day we all have a common cause which I think gets lost in the wash. Some people just react differently to difficult periods. While many fall back on the sky is falling attitude there is also a % that express blind faith. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Good on you for not responding you'd only be getting down to her level

I personally happen to think your off the mark with some of your views, but you know what they're your views and it shits me when posters try to railroad others so you won't see me denying them!

At the end of the day we all have a common cause which I think gets lost in the wash. Some people just react differently to difficult periods. While many fall back on the sky is falling attitude there is also a % that express blind faith. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I intend to come across as neither the sky is falling or blind faith. I only have a crack at the extremists but with others I'll try give a point of view without trying to belittle their views.
We don't all have to agree but we need to be respectful. That's how footy clubs should work and we should be no different in here.

 

[Scodog10]

I intend to come across as neither the sky is falling or blind faith. I only have a crack at the extremists but with others I'll try give a point of view without trying to belittle their views.
We don't all have to agree but we need to be respectful. That's how footy clubs should work and we should be no different in here.

I guess from my perspective I'd ask how would you critique Buckley on both his positives and negatives?

It seemed that in the situation you described you had an issue with her comments regarding structure and game plan. I'm not naive enough to sit back and say we have no gameplan rabble rabble rabble, however what I do have an issue with is the lack of improvement on it.

It's a sobering thing to look at Buckley's first and last games in charge. Both were against Hawthorn and both exhibited the exact same structural and skill based flaws (inability to prevent goals from kick ins, poor fundamental skills and a lack of game awareness) the players have changed no doubt, but we're still committing the same mistakes we did 3 years ago.

The one thing Buckley will never be questioned on is his desire to improve Collingwood as a club which is a huge positive for mine. He will no doubt leave a lasting impact on our best 22 that will be sustainable in the long term (whether he's the man for the job or not). He is the complete opposite of Ross Lyon who operates on a use and abuse basis so once Freo are no longer a contender he'll move onto the next up and coming club.

Buckley though struggles with the main concept of being a coach which is directing a group of men to underatake an action, as a cohesive unit, that will lead to a positive outcome. He is brilliant with the media and club development side of things, but just can't seem to get a handle on the tactical side. You bring someone in to be on the same level as him, co-coaches if you will, to handle tactics and matchday operations and things will turn for the better. I'm probably getting too off topic here though so that's it from me.

 

[Hardas]

Yep the ignore button is a godsend on here, make use of it people

I have only used it for opposition 'supporters' so far, believing that I should listen to every point of view from within our brethren, but it's starting to get to that stage, as mentioned above, that it's almost impossible to discuss any topic without it getting derailed...

 

[Hardas]

You work with Thatsgold?

That is gold.

 

[Hardas]

I guess from my perspective I'd ask how would you critique Buckley on both his positives and negatives?
It seemed that in the situation you described you had an issue with her comments regarding structure and game plan. I'm not naive enough to sit back and say we have no gameplan rabble rabble rabble, however what I do have an issue with is the lack of improvement on it.
It's a sobering thing to look at Buckley's first and last games in charge. Both were against Hawthorn and both exhibited the exact same structural and skill based flaws (inability to prevent goals from kick ins, poor fundamental skills and a lack of game awareness) the players have changed no doubt, but we're still committing the same mistakes we did 3 years ago.
The one thing Buckley will never be questioned on is his desire to improve Collingwood as a club which is a huge positive for mine. He will no doubt leave a lasting impact on our best 22 that will be sustainable in the long term (whether he's the man for the job or not). He is the complete opposite of Ross Lyon who operates on a use and abuse basis so once Freo are no longer a contender he'll move onto the next up and coming club.
Buckley though struggles with the main concept of being a coach which is directing a group of men to underatake an action, as a cohesive unit, that will lead to a positive outcome. He is brilliant with the media and club development side of things, but just can't seem to get a handle on the tactical side. You bring someone in to be on the same level as him, co-coaches if you will, to handle tactics and matchday operations and things will turn for the better. I'm probably getting too off topic here though so that's it from me.

Don't want to derail your thread, AD, but just quickly, this and team selection. He [they?] has got to make progress in these areas faster.

 

[Anzacday]

Don't want to derail your thread, AD, but just quickly, this and team selection. He [they?] has got to make progress in these areas faster.

Quite frankly I don't mind the occasional thread derailment HOWEVER, when it's the same people with the same subject matter it becomes very tiresome.
Between you and I, I got sucked in by a poster on the main board today, I just couldn't resist after his 6th or 7th post.
Alas, my post was deleted by the powers that be and I now deny all knowledge of it.
In fact, I wonder if it actually happened??

 

[76woodenspooners]

At the end of the day we all have a common cause which I think gets lost in the wash. Some people just react differently to difficult periods. While many fall back on the sky is falling attitude there is also a % that express blind faith. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Indeed ...

Some people think the role of a fan is somebody who supports and cheers for their team no matter what

Some people think the role of a fan is to analyse and critique everything the club and players do - and it is there given right to criticise their own club if it's deserved **

Everybody gets along just dandy when the team is winning.

But these perspectives come into conflict when we're losing - as we've found recently.


** I once asked Gary Pert about this in a public forum, how does he reconcile this role of fans? He answered to the effect that: it doesn't matter, when players enter the doors of the Westpac Centre they are told exactly where they stand, they are told by their coaches exactly what they're doing right and what they are doing wrong, there's no sugar coating.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Indeed ...

Some people think the role of a fan is somebody who supports and cheers for their team no matter what

Some people think the role of a fan is to analyse and critique everything the club and players do - and it is there given right to criticise their own club if it's deserved **

Everybody gets along just dandy when the team is winning.

But these perspectives come into conflict when we're losing - as we've found recently.


** I once asked Gary Pert about this in a public forum, how does he reconcile this role of fans? He answered to the effect that: it doesn't matter, when players enter the doors of the Westpac Centre they are told exactly where they stand, they are told by their coaches exactly what they're doing right and what they are doing wrong, there's no sugar coating.

I think the mistake you might have made is that you think all comments are said in a kind of 'innocent' way.
I believe some posters are quite deliberate in that, they want to destroy things, in other words "it is their real agenda" and they use Forums such as this as their vehicle
Look at their past history, its all there for everyone to see, no one needs to embellish it.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

I guess from my perspective I'd ask how would you critique Buckley on both his positives and negatives?

It seemed that in the situation you described you had an issue with her comments regarding structure and game plan. I'm not naive enough to sit back and say we have no gameplan rabble rabble rabble, however what I do have an issue with is the lack of improvement on it.

It's a sobering thing to look at Buckley's first and last games in charge. Both were against Hawthorn and both exhibited the exact same structural and skill based flaws (inability to prevent goals from kick ins, poor fundamental skills and a lack of game awareness) the players have changed no doubt, but we're still committing the same mistakes we did 3 years ago.

The one thing Buckley will never be questioned on is his desire to improve Collingwood as a club which is a huge positive for mine. He will no doubt leave a lasting impact on our best 22 that will be sustainable in the long term (whether he's the man for the job or not). He is the complete opposite of Ross Lyon who operates on a use and abuse basis so once Freo are no longer a contender he'll move onto the next up and coming club.

Buckley though struggles with the main concept of being a coach which is directing a group of men to underatake an action, as a cohesive unit, that will lead to a positive outcome. He is brilliant with the media and club development side of things, but just can't seem to get a handle on the tactical side. You bring someone in to be on the same level as him, co-coaches if you will, to handle tactics and matchday operations and things will turn for the better. I'm probably getting too off topic here though so that's it from me.

Sorry mate on the ipad and breaking up your post and quoting section is a pain in the arse. I'll have a crack at some of what you want and maybe elaborate on others later.
1) Gameplan. I like the idea of what is to happen when we have it. Straightening us up is the right way to go. Around the boundary is stoppage friendly and while our rucks and young mids are being introduced, we can't afford a stoppage friendly game. Keeping the ball in motion is what is supposed to happen but unfortunately that relies on the half forwards presenting as good options when the ball is coming off half back. They aren't and this is a big negative. Forward set up is shocking and I think it's a direct consequence of the half forwards getting caught out in the wrong positions. Could take me a whole page to explain it all but having read your posts I think you'll know where I'm going with it. In short, experience will iron out this problem. I don't think it's an issue with instructions.
It's hard to bed down a gameplan when introducing players who are learning to adapt to the game itself. Add to that, senior players who have for the past few years been either floating the ball out into space in front of the option or going long up the line. Is Bucks showing a lack of flexibility in persisting with the way he wants the ball delivered and to which options? Maybe.
2) Hawthorn Coast to Coast? In fairness, they have done this to most sides. While we were ok the first time we played them this year, we couldn't arrest an 8 minute burst which put space between them and us. Wasn't totally a problem with tactical nous in the box, had plenty to do with the Hawks players being smarter than our boys. The last game was always going to be a write off. Bucks and co still need to cop some heat for players nodding off and allowing so much space between them and their opponent. hawthorn have been afforded too much of that against us. Once again, experience should address part of it as well.
3) Bucks directing men and tactics. On the surface it looks like a problem to us but there are many variables which contribute to game play. We can say why doesn't he do this or that but unless we have intimate knowledge of each player and are willing to look at the flow on effect of each move, it's difficult to question the tactical nous of Buckley or any coach for that matter. I think some of us get seduced by media fapping over one or two moves that seemed to lead to a win. I'm not accusing you of this. I'll add more later.

 

[cleomenes]

I've wondered about this issue for a long time - long before I ever knew about BigFooty.

Anybody who has ever been to a Colligwood footy game will have seen that there are Collingwood fans in the crowd who yell and curse and hurl abuse at their own players - certainly far more abuse than they'll ever toss at an opposition player. Hell, you'll even get those (wearing Collingwood colours) who graciously clap a opposition act one moment, and and spew forth green bile at our own team the next.

If you were to be asked after a game "what were the fans around you like?" - maybe, just maybe you might mention the family with the cute well-behaved kids. But without fail you'll mention the bloke (sorry ladies, but I've only ever seen blokes like this) who will have mercilessly hurled abuse at Maxwell "for being a hack" or Toovs "for his crap kicking" or some other player for his brain fades. Do you just wish that a security would just drop in and hurl them out? Maybe sometimes yes. Sometimes you might think they're funny (as long as your kids aren't with you). Other times you might reflect on what their life must be like outside of footy - what makes them like this?

Some suggest folks here on Bigfooty are doing it for the attention ... attention that they might not get if they were more mainstream. Yeah, maybe in some cases that might be true. But those blokes at the footy certainly aren't like that - they're on their own planet. They likely don't even realise that they're venting out all their frustration with the world on a bunch of footy players who are supposed to be performing for their entertainment.

And so it is on BigFooty. And on the other Collingwood fan forums too. We have many posters on here, every one of them different, but it's those who are contentious who'll often get noticed. You'll see it when people start a phrase with "People on BigFooty are ..." or "Why are people so ...", etc, etc. When you dissect it, the "people" that they're referring to are probably less than 2% of the population on here.

Are other clubs like this? I haven't observed it. Admittedly most of my experience at the footy with other teams these days are with the Swans. The worst that I've ever seen there is some sweet little old lady knitting a red and white scarf for her grandkid, and offering to share her thermos flask of hot tea with me. In a moment of frustration she might degenerate to "Ooo, Adam Goodes, isn't he a handsome lad, I have a single daughter who I'd love to introduce him to!"
So much sense here, but I have to disagree with your high assessment of other clubs' supporters. To see how much worse they can be, have a quick glance at the Carlton board. The Swans and Hawthorn can't be taken as typical, because they are in such successful phases. The others toiling in the muck like we are now are as feral as our worst.
In general you are right though. We all wish Toovey was a better kick, but only a few of us would hang him for it.
Swans fans are a bit unique. Victorian clubs do have their colourful supporters just as Collingwood has - but I've never seen opposition fans turn on their own players in the way some of our supporters seem to.

I've often wondered how our club deals with this? Yeah, things do sometimes get a bit wild here on BigFooty, especially after a bad loss, but I couldn't begin to imagine the stuff our club have to deal with sometimes. All the more so because the club is effectively accountable to their members, their fan base, which includes those very people. I do wonder how they do deal with it? When they're inducting new players, what do they teach them about dealing with supporters?

 

[cleomenes]

So much sense here, but I have to disagree with your high assessment of other clubs' supporters. To see how much worse they can be, have a quick glance at the Carlton board. The Swans and Hawthorn can't be taken as typical, because they are in such successful phases. The others toiling in the muck like we are now are as feral as our worst.
In general you are right though. We all wish Toovey was a better kick, but only a few of us would hang him for it.