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Doping Thread

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happy_eagle said:
Who would have thought that the Track Cyclist who all of a sudden started matching the worlds best climbers was under the influence of something illegal
Hopefully this results in some stronger investigations of Froome and Sky over the past few years
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Froome has had pedigree on the road since he started, its Wiggins I reckon was bent. The fact that Sky pretty much booted their number one rider out of the team says a fair bit too.
 

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Slax said:
Froome has had pedigree on the road since he started, its Wiggins I reckon was bent. The fact that Sky pretty much booted their number one rider out of the team says a fair bit too.
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Wouldn't say he had a pedigree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I watched the Brad Wiggins story about his TUE use on 7.30 last night which mainly was an interview with David Walsh from the Sunday Times and just kept thinking of Vader's UK Postal call. You can watch the full story and read the full transcript at the following link but here is a fair chunk of it.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2016/s4557032.htm
HAYDEN COOPER, PRESENTER: The first British cyclist to win the Tour de France has been under serious scrutiny in recent weeks, after a Russian hacking operation exposed some of his medical records. Sir Bradley Wiggins won the tour in 2012, but the hack revealed to the world that he'd received permission to use a powerful corticosteroid in the lead-up to the famous race. In fact, he'd had the injection three times in three different years - all before his biggest events of the calendar. The treatment, which was approved by the authorities, was for a pollen allergy. Wiggins says he acted within the rules and was not seeking an unfair advantage. In a moment we'll speak to the chief sports writer at the UK's Sunday Times, David Walsh. But, first, let's recap:
....
HAYDEN COOPER: Team Sky is a formidable force in world cycling, winning four of the past five editions of the Tour de France, including in 2012 when Bradley Wiggins became the first British rider to win the gruelling race......But the recent hack by the Russian group known as Fancy Bears raises serious questions for Wiggins and his team. The hackers infiltrated computers at the World Anti-Doping Agency and released medical details of dozens of athletes. They included three exemptions granted to Bradley Wiggins, allowing the use of a corticosteroid to treat a pollen allergy. The injection was administered in the lead-up to both the 2011 and 2012 Tour de France, as well as the 2013 Tour of Italy. Although it was legal, Wiggins had previously denied ever receiving an injection in his cycling career, apart from vaccinations. He maintains that he's done nothing wrong.
....
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http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2016/s4557032.htm

HAYDEN COOPER: David Walsh is known as the journalist who brought down Lance Armstrong after years of relentless pursuit of the cyclist's drug-taking ways. In 2013 he wrote a book called 'Inside Team Sky'.He's heading to Australia for the Sports Writers Festival and he joins me now, live from London.

HAYDEN COOPER: Well, you said after this story broke that this looks bad for Bradley Wiggins. Do you still hold that view?
DAVID WALSH: Well, I do: and more than that, I would have firmed up my view on this, I think, because we've learned more. And the more we've learned, the worse it looks.At the very least, Bradley Wiggins now has an asterisk after his Tour de France victory and the asterisk says: received a serious steroid four days before the race. Forty milligram injection of triamcinolone for reasons that are barely credible, because Bradley Wiggins was 100 per cent healthy, according to his own autobiography, in the lead-up to that Tour de France. He said he'd barely missed a day's training. He'd won all his preparation races. And he ends up getting the most lethal or the most potent corticosteroid you could get if you were an asthma sufferer. And basically, it stinks.

HAYDEN COOPER: Do you have any doubts that that injection would have given him an unfair advantage?
DAVID WALSH: Well, I mean, I have never taken triamcinolone. So I am speaking from the testimony. I am basing my view on the testimony of multiple riders, cyclists who have used this drug because, known by its brand name Kenacort, this is a drug that cyclists have been abusing for decades. And they all say it's a powerful performance enhancer.

The problem that Team Sky have got with this is not only the act itself, which is at the very least highly questionable, but they're the team that set themselves up as whiter than white. They're the team that set themselves up as totally transparent. They have been anything but transparent in their response to this. They have basically refused to go into any detail about how this was authorised and they're basically sticking to the line: it was approved by the authorities and therefore it was technically legal. And for lots of people that's not good enough, because ethics still matter in sport. Morals still matter. And the proof that this is wrong: you know, it can really be kind of drawn from a statement put out by a three-time winner of the Tour de France, Chris Froome, who happens to be Team Sky's team leader. He put out a statement that basically said, "Ethics and morals are hugely important and the UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) need to tighten up on TUE (therapeutic use exception) abuse." He put this statement out following the disclosure of Bradley Wiggins' TUEs. In other words: Chris Froome has been pretty appalled by this. And he's Team Sky's leader.
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The discussion then turns to the specifics of TUE's and who at Sky knew what. He reckons 4 of 60 people knew, he reckons some of the others would have been against the use of triamcinolone by Wiggins. But he reckons Froome is clean was clean in 2013 when he spent 13 weeks with him.
HAYDEN COOPER: And those TUEs, therapeutic use exemptions which allow cyclists to use these drugs in some cases: are they in widespread use in the peloton? And is this something that we as the sporting public should have a right to know?

DAVID WALSH: Yes. I believe we should have a right to know now. And I think: you know, if Bradley Wiggins' teammates in 2012 had known that Bradley had got a very potent TUE just before the race, even his teammates would have had serious reservations about it. So you can imagine how his rivals would have reacted. I know that Chris Froome's view is that, if one of his rivals in last year's Tour de France had got this TUE three days before the race, he wouldn't have been at all pleased. So what Team Sky did in my view was: while it may have been technically legal, it was wholly wrong and there was no justification for it. Because if Bradley Wiggins had, you know, pollen allergies - we know he's asthmatic, but lots of riders in the peloton are asthmatic and don't get injections of this drug three days before the race. If he was, there were many alternative medications that he could have used: you know, less potent in terms of performance enhancement. And if Sky felt it was OK, why was it such a secretive thing? I know many high-up people in that team who had no idea of what was happening.

HAYDEN COOPER:
Now, as you say, Team Sky was set up as a clean cycling team. That was their virtue and they promoted that quite vigorously. They let you in to travel with them in 2013. You said at the time, actually, that they were clean and also incredibly open. Do you still feel the same way today? I mean, clearly your view has changed?

DAVID WALSH: Yes, it has changed. I mean, in 2013, what I said was: I believed that Chris Froome had won the Tour de France clean because I had been in the team for 13 weeks, leading up to that. I saw him in training. I saw him in his prep races and I had lots of interaction with people. I still believe Froome is a clean winner of the Tour de France. But if you look at this from another way: if Dave Brailsford, when he was offering me the opportunity to come and live inside the team: if he said, "By the way, I should tell you about Bradley's therapeutic use exemption injection that we gave him before last year's tour," I wouldn't have gone inside the team. Because I would have said, "Dave, we've got to investigate that. That to me looks, at the very least, wholly inappropriate, unethical, immoral. So sorry, I don't want your invite because we need an investigation here."

So in a way, I went in there without full knowledge. You can say, "But David, why didn't you find out? You were inside the team for 13 weeks." Well, Chris Froome didn't know about this TUE. Tim Kerrison, the Australian who many people regard as perhaps the key figure - he's the head of performance in Team Sky - he didn't know about this TUE. Rod Ellingworth, the kind of next in charge, didn't know about it. Dave Brailsford knew. Bradley Wiggins knew. The doctor who gave the injection knew. And the Australian head coach at the time, Shane Sutton, knew. Four people in a team of about 60 people knew about this. There were three other doctors in the team and they did not know. And my information is that, if they had been consulted, the other three doctors: they all would have been firmly against.
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Thank you RussellEbertHandball . Good stuff. Shane Sutton is now at OGE or whatever they are now called, is that correct?

Also SKY talks about transparency yet doesn't live it. I think all TUEs from all teams should be made public before a race. Even if its tucked away on page 54 of the website, at least have it somewhere available. Then you can assess the ride for what it is.
 
GreyCrow said:
Thank you RussellEbertHandball . Good stuff. Shane Sutton is now at OGE or whatever they are now called, is that correct?

Also SKY talks about transparency yet doesn't live it. I think all TUEs from all teams should be made public before a race. Even if its tucked away on page 54 of the website, at least have it somewhere available. Then you can assess the ride for what it is.
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Shane Sutton was the British Olympic Track Coach who was stood down 3 months before the Rio Olympics because of bullying allegations - After weeks of media pressure, somehow S.Yates indiscretion where the OBE team doctor failed to list a substance on a TUE,resulting in a positive test, suddenly was leaked to the public - You don't have to be Einstein to work out where the leak originated - Have no time for British cycling.
 
yaco55 said:
Shane Sutton was the British Olympic Track Coach who was stood down 3 months before the Rio Olympics because of bullying allegations - After weeks of media pressure, somehow S.Yates indiscretion where the OBE team doctor failed to list a substance on a TUE,resulting in a positive test, suddenly was leaked to the public - You don't have to be Einstein to work out where the leak originated - Have no time for British cycling.
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and Shane felt guilty, thats why he let them live above his bike shop when they went on the lam

see: the Team Sky PR Officer youtube^ from Juan Joya Bora where he says about them going on the lam, and Brad, and hiding where shane lives above the bike shop.

is that how you spell "going on the lam?"
 
GreyCrow said:
Thank you RussellEbertHandball . Good stuff. Shane Sutton is now at OGE or whatever they are now called, is that correct?

Also SKY talks about transparency yet doesn't live it. I think all TUEs from all teams should be made public before a race. Even if its tucked away on page 54 of the website, at least have it somewhere available. Then you can assess the ride for what it is.
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is he, that is funny if he moved to GreenEDGE
 

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Slax said:
Froome has had pedigree on the road since he started, its Wiggins I reckon was bent. The fact that Sky pretty much booted their number one rider out of the team says a fair bit too.
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yeah, i was about the first one, and one of the only ones, who supported Froome on cyclingnews forum. But John Robertson's Barloworld and his feeder team Konica Minolta did run a doping program, even if it was merely diffused and on an individual level where the individuals did their own bit.

if you search a thread I started on cyclingnews on Froome, that was in the title, cyclingnews forum, same poster name, blackcat, title: froome... I demonstrated why his ability was manifest in his first Tour de France, and his results in that race. I think he was 22.


No doubt, he was doping then, just as much as the others.

No doubt he is doping now, p'raps more than the others.

No doubt he has used a motor on certain stages in the Tour de France, and if he did, prolly Richie Porte did too, cos they are best mates in Monaco.

But, like Clinton and his GreekAmerican spinner and political advisor George Stephanopoulos said,
___________________________________________________________________________________"its the economy stupid"
___________________________________________________________________________________"its Chinatown Jake"
___________________________________________________________________________________"its cycling stupid"

no, its just cycling stupid.

Slax this was merely a rhetoric and generic response, not specific to you, I was not referring to anyone in particular with the appellation "stupid"
 
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blackcat said:
yeah, i was about the first one, and one of the only ones, who supported Froome on cyclingnews forum. But John Robertson's Barloworld and his feeder team Konica Minolta did run a doping program, even if it was merely diffused and on an individual level where the individuals did their own bit.

if you search a thread I started on cyclingnews on Froome, that was in the title, cyclingnews forum, same poster name, blackcat, title: froome... I demonstrated why his ability was manifest in his first Tour de France, and his results in that race. I think he was 22.


No doubt, he was doping then, just as much as the others.

No doubt he is doping now, p'raps more than the others.

No doubt he has used a motor on certain stages in the Tour de France, and if he did, prolly Richie Porte did too, cos they are best mates in Monaco.

But, like Clinton and his GreekAmerican spinner and political advisor George Stephanopoulos said,
___________________________________________________________________________________"its the economy stupid"
___________________________________________________________________________________"its Chinatown Jake"
___________________________________________________________________________________"its cycling stupid"

no, its just cycling stupid.

Slax this was merely a rhetoric and generic response, not specific to you, I was not referring to anyone in particular with the appellation "stupid"
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Whilst doping is still rife in cycling & all sports to be honest, yes in AFL too, the use of motors I don't think happens.
 
Motors is a vexed issue - I am not convinced it happens in the pro-peleton, but I could be wrong - Can say with certainty that within the peleton, motorised doping is seen as a more serious infraction, than standard doping.
 
yaco55 said:
Motors is a vexed issue - I am not convinced it happens in the pro-peleton, but I could be wrong - Can say with certainty that within the peleton, motorised doping is seen as a more serious infraction, than standard doping.
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your wrong.

When Sean Kelly says it on Eurosport during the Giro, when Patrick Lefevere expressed cynicism questioning the legitimacy of Cancellare at Flanders in 10, he did not break the omerta and spit in the soup, he took a gigantic dump on the dinner table and lectured on scatology one o on.

no relationship to #hawaii50

#scatology101



*
you are
not your
#spammar_and_grelling
 
Slax said:
Froome has had pedigree on the road since he started, its Wiggins I reckon was bent. The fact that Sky pretty much booted their number one rider out of the team says a fair bit too.
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they are all doping, if we dont know their doping programs and how they are prepared, we cant baseline their talent.
 

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Wallaby said:
Interesting.......................

http://www.foxsports.com.au/olympic...g/news-story/13c505bc32a1b4f21be6a4fa6ac4b44f
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no, that is not the story.

former PM communications chief Lachlan Harris spoke about media story, crtical mass, and momentum.

well, the story about British sports performance, particularly cycling, holds at a precarious balance... it could go either way. The media are rounging on Sky Cycling, particularly Wiggins, and what the story is, is what is not said

because of libel, you tread this tightrope, but the media are clearly saying, British cycling are dirty as hell, dirty as those dirty dirty state sponsored Russians, and Wiggins is in the dock at the moment. We have yet to see if it will truly turn on Farah, then back to Paula Radcliffe, cos she managed to ride it out first time. And then if Froome cops it.

edit: this is even with the Murdoch empire backing Sky Cycling. NB, think Rupe owns 38% of BSkyB, not full owns it with NewsCorp, and his split empire between the entertainment division and the press/news division.

but he just put in a bid for 100% control of BSkyB with NewsCorp, since he waited out the last 5 years on the back of the phone hacking scandal, everyone knew he was gonna return, this he saw as his piece de resistance, his career crowning glory.

so, paradoxically, Sir Dave Brailsford and Team Sky, may not have had the backing of Murdoch's press division in their hour of need, because frankly, Rupe could not give a shit, and he is focussing on complete control and 100% ownership of Sky and this having to pass thru the foreign ownership and public interest approval process in house of commons and Rupe has higher things on his mind than getting dirty with protecting Team Sky Cycling ped performances
 
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Speaking of Mo Farah,, it seems his gold medals have disappeared from the IOC website. Website has been hacked of course. No mention of Wiggo's
 
Nicole Cooke has just taken a huge dump on Tean Sky.

For those of you who don't know her, Nicole Cooke is Britain's highest profile female cyclist. She's been a multiple World Champion on the road and I think has Olympic medals. National Hero. This is not some muck-raking journalist, or 'Dirty forrin meedja attacking our Noble Cyclists' - this is one of their own.

She was called into give evidence to the inquiry into sexism into UK cycling, but while there, she has given Sky both barrels about drugs.

"When asked whether she found Team Sky’s claims that they are running the cleanest team in cycling credible, Cooke was blunt. “No,” she replied firmly."
"The chronological coincidence of the TUEs just before major events raises suspicions with me based on my experience of patterns".
"UK Sport, the body that oversees the governance of Olympic sports, ............... had allowed British Cycling to get away with doing what it wanted".

Plenty more here: - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jan/24/nicole-cooke-mps-british-cycling-sexist-unaccountable
 
I saw a New Scientist article snippet that suggested that PEDs should be tested to see how efficient they really are, the only problem , according to NE , is that nobody wanted to be in the placebo group.
 

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