Analysis Draft Evaluation (2012 - The 'Ben Draft')

[Yezeha]

This is the first of several evaluations that I’m planning to do on our recent draft classes. Depending on how well y’all receive this, I may or may not do the 2013 and 2014 drafts as well as the 2005 and 2006 draft classes. These evaluations are based on the production of the players as well as their likely upside for the future and these two aspects will be given a grade from A+ to F with A+ being high level of production already or future All-Australian potential and F being someone like Nathan Freeman who has done jack shite and will likely finish up having done jack shite for our team. If you disagree, then I don’t blame you and I’d be happy to discuss.


Draft:


National:


- Brodie Grundy (Production: B-, Potential: A)

- Ben Kennedy (Production: C-, Potential: F - Traded)

- Tim Broomhead (Production: C-, Potential: B)

- Jackson Ramsay (Production: D+, Potential: B+)


Rookie:


- Kyle Martin (Production: D, Potential: F - Delisted)

- Sam Dwyer (Production: B-, Potential: F - Delisted)

- Adam Oxley (Production: C, Potential: B-)

- Jack Frost (Production: B-, Potential: B-)

- Ben Hudson (Production: D, Potential: F – Retired)

- Peter Yagmoor (Production: F, Potential: F – Delisted)

- Ben Richmond (Production: F, Potential: F – Delisted)


General evaluation:


I like to call this the ‘Ben Draft’ since we acquired three Bens in it. Unfortunately, all three have since departed. The national draft was fairly productive as we were able to acquire Brodie Grundy who has All-Australian potential, and three enigmas in Broomhead, Kennedy and Ramsay. Each have shown flashes of talent but due to injuries and in Kennedy’s case, a lack of endurance, none could really show these traits consistently. Kennedy has since departed and to my great disappointment, has begun to show more consistency in a different jumper. Marley Williams was also promoted to the senior list in this draft and he has currently been the most productive player out of the group. However, he was a rookie draft pick in the previous year’s draft.


The rookie draft however, was more interesting. It netted us another enigma in Kyle Martin, whose consistent performances in the VFL never really translated to the AFL. It also gave us a handy-mature aged recruit in Sam Dwyer who assisted the team to the finals in 2013 as a best 22 player before falling out of favor in 2014 and being delisted at the end of 2015. Ben Hudson was a handy backup ruck who played several productive games standing in for the injured Darren Jolly in 2013 and was very good at VFL level through 2013 and 2014. Peter Yagmoor was a rookied senior player from the previous year who didn’t really fire a shot while Ben Richmond was a failed project player. The two players that are still on the list today are Jack Frost and Adam Oxley who have been solid role players on the team. Unfortunately, I don’t really see much more area for growth for both players. Frost is limited skill-wise and doesn’t really have much to suggest he can become a better rebounding defender. Oxley played some good games in 2015 but the only real growth I see in him is a decrease in the gap between his worst and his best.


Overall, the Ben Draft was a very solid draft with the Pies able to secure a potential future All-Australian ruckman and a high potential forward and defender duo in the national draft, and two solid role-players and a handy short-term midfielder in the rookie draft.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Broomhead and particularly Kennedy almost enough to push this national draft into failure territory given the picks we had. As often seems to be the case for the Pies, the rookie draft saw us redeem ourselves a bit.

 

[adammania9]

Grundy but also really liking the development of Oxley, especially as a rookie selection. Frost is another great serviceable player for a rookie pick.

Hopefully Ramsay's development isn't stunted by the inujry today.

 

[robertg22]

Ben Broomhead.

 

[sr36]

Broomhead and particularly Kennedy almost enough to push this national draft into failure territory given the picks we had. As often seems to be the case for the Pies, the rookie draft saw us redeem ourselves a bit.

Have a look at the guys drafted after Broomhead. Hine drafted magnificently. The decision to trade into that draft on the other hand wasn't such a good one.

 

[robertg22]

If I had to rank them based on where I think they'll finish up with us:

Grundy
Broomhead (I still have a lot of faith in him)
Ramsay
Oxley
Frost

If not for injuries Ramsay could be ahead of Broomy but who knows.

Wish we'd kept Kenno too.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Have a look at the guys drafted after Broomhead. Hine drafted magnificently. The decision to trade into that draft on the other hand wasn't such a good one.

That's pretty true. And you can't blame Hine for the injuries after they were drafted. But as you say, without blame attached, it hasn't worked out so well.

 

[Kappa]

This is the first of several evaluations that I’m planning to do on our recent draft classes. Depending on how well y’all receive this, I may or may not do the 2013 and 2014 drafts as well as the 2005 and 2006 draft classes. These evaluations are based on the production of the players as well as their likely upside for the future and these two aspects will be given a grade from A+ to F with A+ being high level of production already or future All-Australian potential and F being someone like Nathan Freeman who has done jack shite and will likely finish up having done jack shite for our team. If you disagree, then I don’t blame you and I’d be happy to discuss.


Draft:


National:


- Brodie Grundy (Production: B-, Potential: A)

- Ben Kennedy (Production: C-, Potential: F - Traded)

- Tim Broomhead (Production: C-, Potential: B)

- Jackson Ramsay (Production: D+, Potential: B+)


Rookie:


- Kyle Martin (Production: D, Potential: F - Delisted)

- Sam Dwyer (Production: B-, Potential: F - Delisted)

- Adam Oxley (Production: C, Potential: B-)

- Jack Frost (Production: B-, Potential: B-)

- Ben Hudson (Production: D, Potential: F – Retired)

- Peter Yagmoor (Production: F, Potential: F – Delisted)

- Ben Richmond (Production: F, Potential: F – Delisted)


General evaluation:


I like to call this the ‘Ben Draft’ since we acquired three Bens in it. Unfortunately, all three have since departed. The national draft was fairly productive as we were able to acquire Brodie Grundy who has All-Australian potential, and three enigmas in Broomhead, Kennedy and Ramsay. Each have shown flashes of talent but due to injuries and in Kennedy’s case, a lack of endurance, none could really show these traits consistently. Kennedy has since departed and to my great disappointment, has begun to show more consistency in a different jumper. Marley Williams was also promoted to the senior list in this draft and he has currently been the most productive player out of the group. However, he was a rookie draft pick in the previous year’s draft.


The rookie draft however, was more interesting. It netted us another enigma in Kyle Martin, whose consistent performances in the VFL never really translated to the AFL. It also gave us a handy-mature aged recruit in Sam Dwyer who assisted the team to the finals in 2013 as a best 22 player before falling out of favor in 2014 and being delisted at the end of 2015. Ben Hudson was a handy backup ruck who played several productive games standing in for the injured Darren Jolly in 2013 and was very good at VFL level through 2013 and 2014. Peter Yagmoor was a rookied senior player from the previous year who didn’t really fire a shot while Ben Richmond was a failed project player. The two players that are still on the list today are Jack Frost and Adam Oxley who have been solid role players on the team. Unfortunately, I don’t really see much more area for growth for both players. Frost is limited skill-wise and doesn’t really have much to suggest he can become a better rebounding defender. Oxley played some good games in 2015 but the only real growth I see in him is a decrease in the gap between his worst and his best.


Overall, the Ben Draft was a very solid draft with the Pies able to secure a potential future All-Australian ruckman and a high potential forward and defender duo in the national draft, and two solid role-players and a handy short-term midfielder in the rookie draft.

Pretty disappointing draft really seeing as we had 3 late first round picks to use.

Grundy miraculously falling to pick 18 is the saving grace

 

[Stoods]

I've Ben waiting for an analysis of this

 

[Saintly Viewed]

The late stuff, late rookies etc I don't fuss much. Eg bn Hudson wasn't a failure more a depth pick in case etc.

The main players I look at in review are from the main draft pool.

Grundy for that pick looks a steal, he'll in time be a main ruck of stature.
Broomhead solid and plenty of upside.
Ben Kennedy probably found his niche in a more ongoing bottom club like the Dees.

 

[Vicky Park]

I remember Ben Broomhead with fondness.

 

[jackcass]

Good work and agree with much of your assessment based on evidence to date.

Not sure BK is an F, maybe different colours or coding for players who move clubs.

Also don't consider the peoples beard an F. He was recruited for a specific purpose under a limited tenure and I think he delivered upon that.

And should we factor trades into the discussion as they can sometimes influence the drafting.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Got howe for kennedy lets see how he goes

 

[ppoiter]

This is the first of several evaluations that I’m planning to do on our recent draft classes. Depending on how well y’all receive this, I may or may not do the 2013 and 2014 drafts as well as the 2005 and 2006 draft classes. These evaluations are based on the production of the players as well as their likely upside for the future and these two aspects will be given a grade from A+ to F with A+ being high level of production already or future All-Australian potential and F being someone like Nathan Freeman who has done jack shite and will likely finish up having done jack shite for our team. If you disagree, then I don’t blame you and I’d be happy to discuss.


Draft:


National:


- Brodie Grundy (Production: B-, Potential: A)

- Ben Kennedy (Production: C-, Potential: F - Traded)

- Tim Broomhead (Production: C-, Potential: B)

- Jackson Ramsay (Production: D+, Potential: B+)


Rookie:


- Kyle Martin (Production: D, Potential: F - Delisted)

- Sam Dwyer (Production: B-, Potential: F - Delisted)

- Adam Oxley (Production: C, Potential: B-)

- Jack Frost (Production: B-, Potential: B-)

- Ben Hudson (Production: D, Potential: F – Retired)

- Peter Yagmoor (Production: F, Potential: F – Delisted)

- Ben Richmond (Production: F, Potential: F – Delisted)


General evaluation:


I like to call this the ‘Ben Draft’ since we acquired three Bens in it. Unfortunately, all three have since departed. The national draft was fairly productive as we were able to acquire Brodie Grundy who has All-Australian potential, and three enigmas in Broomhead, Kennedy and Ramsay. Each have shown flashes of talent but due to injuries and in Kennedy’s case, a lack of endurance, none could really show these traits consistently. Kennedy has since departed and to my great disappointment, has begun to show more consistency in a different jumper. Marley Williams was also promoted to the senior list in this draft and he has currently been the most productive player out of the group. However, he was a rookie draft pick in the previous year’s draft.


The rookie draft however, was more interesting. It netted us another enigma in Kyle Martin, whose consistent performances in the VFL never really translated to the AFL. It also gave us a handy-mature aged recruit in Sam Dwyer who assisted the team to the finals in 2013 as a best 22 player before falling out of favor in 2014 and being delisted at the end of 2015. Ben Hudson was a handy backup ruck who played several productive games standing in for the injured Darren Jolly in 2013 and was very good at VFL level through 2013 and 2014. Peter Yagmoor was a rookied senior player from the previous year who didn’t really fire a shot while Ben Richmond was a failed project player. The two players that are still on the list today are Jack Frost and Adam Oxley who have been solid role players on the team. Unfortunately, I don’t really see much more area for growth for both players. Frost is limited skill-wise and doesn’t really have much to suggest he can become a better rebounding defender. Oxley played some good games in 2015 but the only real growth I see in him is a decrease in the gap between his worst and his best.


Overall, the Ben Draft was a very solid draft with the Pies able to secure a potential future All-Australian ruckman and a high potential forward and defender duo in the national draft, and two solid role-players and a handy short-term midfielder in the rookie draft.

B- for Grundy seems a bit harsh for Grundy doesn't it? Would have thought he's progressing nicely for a young ruckman

 

[Yezeha]

B- for Grundy seems a bit harsh for Grundy doesn't it? Would have thought he's progressing nicely for a young ruckman

I think B- is fair. For me, A's are reserved for close to elite standard. The only young-ish players I think have really consistently played at close to All-Australian standard are Elliott and Williams. While Grundy has been very promising, I don't think he's played at that level yet. I have his potential at A because I think he will end up becoming a very good ruckman once he develops further.

 

[jackcass]

B- for Grundy seems a bit harsh for Grundy doesn't it? Would have thought he's progressing nicely for a young ruckman

If anything I'd have thought it was inflated by the potential we see, I'd personally be quite happy if both Grundy and Witts have pushed to at least a B+ level this year. To do that though both will need to improve upon there weaknesses, Grundy centre square ruck contest, contested marking and forward work, Witts around the ground impact and contested marking, aggression, forward work.

 

[Yezeha]

Good work and agree with much of your assessment based on evidence to date.

Not sure BK is an F, maybe different colours or coding for players who move clubs.

Also don't consider the peoples beard an F. He was recruited for a specific purpose under a limited tenure and I think he delivered upon that.

And should we factor trades into the discussion as they can sometimes influence the drafting.

I have their potentials graded as F's because they don't have any potential to become better players at Collingwood. Hudson is retired so he has no upside but if BenKen had stayed at Collingwood, I'd probably rate his potential at about a B to B+.

I also think players we've acquired from free-agency and trades are a different topic altogether but I wouldn't mind discussion about them in this thread.

 

[ppoiter]

I think B- is fair. For me, A's are reserved for close to elite standard. The only young-ish players I think have really consistently played at close to All-Australian standard are Elliott and Williams. While Grundy has been very promising, I don't think he's played at that level yet. I have his potential at A because I think he will end up becoming a very good ruckman once he develops further.

Has their ever been an elite ruckman at his age? Genuine question because I don't know of one. I just wonder what people actually expect of him if what he's done so far only rates a b-

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Has their ever been an elite ruckman at his age? Genuine question because I don't know of one. I just wonder what people actually expect of him if what he's done so far only rates a b-

But that's the whole reason he has a Production grade and a Potential grade. B+ for current production is very generous.

 

[ppoiter]

But that's the whole reason he has a Production grade and a Potential grade. B+ for current production is very generous.

I wasnt talking about potential

 

[Yezeha]

Has their ever been an elite ruckman at his age? Genuine question because I don't know of one. I just wonder what people actually expect of him if what he's done so far only rates a b-

Not that I can really remember.

I'm standing by my grade however. The production grade is based on how good a player he has been compared to other players playing the same position. It has nothing to do with his age. I consider Todd Goldstein to be the A+ standard of ruckmen and Grundy, while playing well for his age, is nowhere near that level yet. Grundy rating a B- in production so far isn't an indictment on him in any way whatsoever. Most ruckmen at age 21 (Take Sydney's Toby Nankervis who to this point in his career has played 5 games) would likely be around a D+.

 

[Yezeha]

Pretty disappointing draft really seeing as we had 3 late first round picks to use.

Grundy miraculously falling to pick 18 is the saving grace

I wouldn't call it a disappointing draft. Based on last Friday and a few performances last year, Ramsay would be close to a fixture in the best 22 if not for injuries. Broomhead has also shown he can play well when healthy.

 

[Jasper84]

Has their ever been an elite ruckman at his age? Genuine question because I don't know of one. I just wonder what people actually expect of him if what he's done so far only rates a b-

I think Nic Nat jagged an A/A at about the same age. Not many others though

 

[davywap]

I wouldn't call it a disappointing draft. Based on last Friday and a few performances last year, Ramsay would be close to a fixture in the best 22 if not for injuries. Broomhead has also shown he can play well when healthy.

Kappa would think a premiership was disappointing.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I have their potentials graded as F's because they don't have any potential to become better players at Collingwood. Hudson is retired so he has no upside but if BenKen had stayed at Collingwood, I'd probably rate his potential at about a B to B+.

BenKen did have value to Collingwood - it's whatever value we got for him at the trade table frozen in time immemorial.

Take Wellingham for example - would it be fair to rate him an 'F'? Eventhough he was recruited as a rookie and we ended up trading for a first round pick? (which we used to get Grundy)