Draft Picks - What value are they ?

[arrowman]

Absolutely spot on. All clubs are well aware of the potential quality of this draft (especially the top 10). No one's going to give up a first-round pick without something very significant in return. For example, I'd expect the Crows would have to give up someone like Johncock (at least) to snare a club's first-round pick - and plenty of clubs probably still wouldn't consider it.

I can see that we could trade for lower draft picks, if we had a surplus of one sort of player and a shortage in other areas. More about balancing the list than trying to pick up a star.

I'll leave it to others to speculate as to where our surplus and shortage might be.

 

[KUNG FU]

i reckon if adelaide dont take the chance and offload some players for some quality picks this year. then they will miss a golden oppotunity to energize there list with some hugely talented youngsters.

pretty much like the stock market, heaps of ur players would get u maximum trade value at the moment. ur list is so deep, its scarey. time to sell at peak price

with your youngsters really showing something, maybe its worth the gamble and try to get into the top 10 picks this year with names like.

rielly
massie
mattner
skipworth
burton
mcgregor


would love to know what would be on offer if u floated guys of this calibre.

u would expect

knights
VB
meeson-maric
douglas
vince

to really starting to cement places in 2007.

question for u guys ?

what player would u think about putting up for a top 10 pick in the 2006 draft. ???

I agree with this. It'd be foolish of Craig not to take advantage of our massive depth and try to get some solid draft picks this year. There are a lot of young fringe players in our line up, who could become a real asset at a lot of other clubs. Skipworth would definitely be a name that Adelaide would be keen to trade for a late pick. The guy is AFL level, just not in a premiership team. Rather than waste a player on your list who's not going to get many games, why not take a punt on a super-draft? Maybe we could trade Massie back to Carlton for better picks hahahaha

On the other hand, Adelaide is in premiership mode. I think we probably only have 2006 or 2007 to get a flag before McLeod, Roo, Goodwin, Hart, Edwards, all winding down their careers. So I don't think we'll be too keen to trade big names for top 10 picks either. But I do think we should be trading up round 4 picks like Knights for #10-20 picks in a super draft (oh I hated saying that, Knights is a GUN!)

 

[KUNG FU]

PS. I know I'm gonna cop it. I think I'm much more of a gambler than you guys. I think its better to maybe have a super star than definitely have a fringe player.

 

[arrowman]

But I do think we should be trading up round 4 picks like Knights for #10-20 picks in a super draft (oh I hated saying that, Knights is a GUN!)

So why trade him?

 

[KUNG FU]

So why trade him?

I think its better to maybe have a super star than definitely have a fringe player.

 

[GoSarge]

So why trade him?

Perhaps for squad balance ? Trade Knights for a top pick and you get to select a quality KPP in return. Our desperate shortage of young KPP talent is addressed and we've traded a guy who is not cemented in our 22. People will obviously argue that Knights is our future etc etc etc but you got to give something to get something.

BEFORE ANYONE STARTS TO RIP IN TO ME, IM NOT SUGGESTING WE DO THIS, IM SAYING ITS AN OPTION/POSSIBILITY.

 

[KUNG FU]

BEFORE ANYONE STARTS TO RIP IN TO ME, IM NOT SUGGESTING WE DO THIS, IM SAYING ITS AN OPTION/POSSIBILITY.

Can I use this disclaimer on everything I say on this board?

 

[GoSarge]

Can I use this disclaimer on everything I say on this board?

It seems to be the favourite response on this board doesnt it ?

How many times do you hear " Are you crazy ? I wouldnt trade player x for draft pick #<insert number here>. He's a deadset champion and an integral member of our squad". Whatever.

Some people have some warped views on the players in our squad.

Apparently they're all champions and all our draftees are the next wonder kids.

 

[arrowman]

I think its better to maybe have a super star than definitely have a fringe player.

Hang about, I thought he was a gun?

I go back to what I said before - top 10 picks in this draft are going to be very expensive. To get such a pick you'll have to give up very, very good players for a "maybe". Best case is break even and when you're looking at genuine premiership chances in the next 2 years why give up a player who will contribute to that, for a player who probably won't?

Yes, we have depth - and probably a surplus of some "types". Backbone players (like Skippy, as mentioned above) might get us lower order draft picks where we can pick up "types" we are short on, and that is what we would be more likely to do. IMHO.

 

[arrowman]

Perhaps for squad balance ? Trade Knights for a top pick and you get to select a quality KPP in return. Our desperate shortage of young KPP talent is addressed and we've traded a guy who is not cemented in our 22. People will obviously argue that Knights is our future etc etc etc but you got to give something to get something.

OK, that's a fair point. I suppose I was coming from the same direction when I talk about "surplus" and "shortage".

I'm not sure Knights comes under the category of "surplus" though - we still need 2 more midfielders (Goodwin and Edwards).

BEFORE ANYONE STARTS TO RIP IN TO ME, IM NOT SUGGESTING WE DO THIS, IM SAYING ITS AN OPTION/POSSIBILITY.

Standard disclaimer. Noted.

 

[crowsarethebest]

Yes instead of thinking about a premiership we have to think about the future as well. I think Brisbane have handled their list VERY VERY well. They won 3 premierships in a row and they still are in premiership contention now, Not as lethal as they were when they won their premierships but still gonig strong and not sitting on the bottom of the ladder.

 

[Alex99]

i reckon if adelaide dont take the chance and offload some players for some quality picks this year. then they will miss a golden oppotunity to energize there list with some hugely talented youngsters.

pretty much like the stock market, heaps of ur players would get u maximum trade value at the moment. ur list is so deep, its scarey. time to sell at peak price

with your youngsters really showing something, maybe its worth the gamble and try to get into the top 10 picks this year with names like.

rielly
massie
mattner
skipworth
burton
mcgregor


would love to know what would be on offer if u floated guys of this calibre.

u would expect

knights
VB
meeson-maric
douglas
vince

to really starting to cement places in 2007.

question for u guys ?

what player would u think about putting up for a top 10 pick in the 2006 draft. ???

Appreciate what your saying but it’s a lot harder to obtain a top 10 draft pick as we need a second club to come to the party and agree to part way with there top 10 drafts pick.

No disrespect intended to the Hawthorn FC but the odd are shortening very quickly that you will not make the finals (good luck if you do) and will likely end up with a pick in the first 8. You named a few players before, what player (or players) would it take for Hawthorn to part with to trade that top 8 pick to the Adelaide Crows?

You have implied that we should trade a few of our players to gain a better position in the draft, now we just need a counter offer from you as to what it will take to make a deal happen.


Hypothetically speaking: Martin Mattner and Hayden Skipworth for a pick in the first 5?

 

[- PC -]

You need to keep turning your list over

Whether you do that slowly or take a step back to take 2 steps forward is up to the individual coach. I see the improvement in the newer drafted players and I think we have long term success happening. But the Draft is an equalisation scheme as well. So it also pays to use it for yourselves

Under Mick Malthouse the Eagles played in finals 10 years in a row. They did that by basically identifying the next group of youngsters and trading the 20-26 listed players . What they lost 1 year they made up in year 2 and 3

 

[LukeHodge15]

Appreciate what your saying but it’s a lot harder to obtain a top 10 draft pick as we need a second club to come to the party and agree to part way with there top 10 drafts pick.

No disrespect intended to the Hawthorn FC but the odd are shortening very quickly that you will not make the finals (good luck if you do) and will likely end up with a pick in the first 8. You named a few players before, what player (or players) would it take for Hawthorn to part with to trade that top 8 pick to the Adelaide Crows?

You have implied that we should trade a few of our players to gain a better position in the draft, now we just need a counter offer from you as to what it will take to make a deal happen.


Hypothetically speaking: Martin Mattner and Hayden Skipworth for a pick in the first 5?

cant see the hawks trading any draft picks with the position that we are in at the moment. (cutting deadwood and rebuilding for the future, we have traded our 2 bookends [thompson and hay ] so AC has taken short term pain for long term gain.)

we crying out for a gorilla CHF and a huge injection of pace.

more than likely we will finish around the 14th-11th mark meaning we would have a chnace at pick 3-4-5-6. cant see adelaide having a young CHF type that the hawks would be interested in with us unloading a pick like that.

hawks still a good 2 years away from making the 8 and putting a highly competitive side out on the park. the kids we have drafted over the last 2 years need another 2 years of footy under their belt be4 i expect to see a huge improvement in the hawks.

even if u cant get in2 the top10 draft picks this year, any pick in the teens and 20's u will still be able to gain access to a quality youngster. talk has been that marc murphy would have gone around the 15-20 mark this year. so that just shows the quality of youngster available this year.

if i was the crows, i would be trying to move heaven and earth to try to get in2 the top 10. to get that young KP talent that u are crying out for. around 6-7 class KP talent available this year and thats being conservative.

after the raping job done by hawthorn on nth melbourne over the last 2 years at the trade table. cant see many clubs willing to jump at moving to many picks unless they think their premiership window is still open.

mattner - 6.8.1982
skippy - 25.02.1983

for top 5 pick

hawks wouldnt go anywhere near that offer, because it doesnt bring to the table much of what we are crying out for.

question for u ?

would u give up those 2 players , for saint kildas first round draft pick (pick 10ish)

 

[Pafloyul]

I’ve just skimmed this thread but my take on a few things is that players can not be 'developed' if they have not got it in them in the first place.

Some players that are the so-called 'bargain-picks' are not overlooked because they have less natural talent and are thus 'molded' into a footballer. They were overlooked because the recruiters were not looking in the right places. You can’t say it was right/wrong to take player ‘a’ or ‘b’ based on the general consensus of that player at the time when he was drafted. It is up to the individual recruiter to be able to judge which player has the most development potential.

If recruiters didn’t make so many mistakes then draft picks would not be as overrated as some of you claim they are.

 

[LukeHodge15]

You need to keep turning your list over

Whether you do that slowly or take a step back to take 2 steps forward is up to the individual coach. I see the improvement in the newer drafted players and I think we have long term success happening. But the Draft is an equalisation scheme as well. So it also pays to use it for yourselves

Under Mick Malthouse the Eagles played in finals 10 years in a row. They did that by basically identifying the next group of youngsters and trading the 20-26 listed players . What they lost 1 year they made up in year 2 and 3

thats an awesome call. exactly the same position u guys can put urselves in over the next couple of years.

west coast are nearly in a scarier position than u guys, they maybe have even more depth to their list than u guys and that is saying something.

 

[Vader]

Given how highly this draft is rated, it is highly unlikely that anyone will be handing over a draft selection inside the top-10 (anything in the first round really).

However, Adelaide may be able to pick up some 2nd or 3rd round selections by trading away some of those "backbone" players whose perceived value has recently increased due to the good performance of the team as a whole.

Realistically, few teams are going to be interested in any player aged 28+, unless they view themselves as being inside the "premiership window" and looking for that one or two extra players to take them over the top. An example of this might be Sydney, who are reportedly strongly considering trading for Spider Everitt as the ruck is their one real weakness (since the retirement of Jason Ball).

That means that the following players would be unlikely to be targeted for trading by opposition clubs:

• Scott Welsh
• Brett Burton
• Rhett Biglands
• Jason Torney
• Simon Goodwin
• Nathan Bassett
• Tyson Edwards
• Andrew McLeod
• Mark Ricciuto
• Ben Hart
• Matthew Clarke

Of that list, Burton is the only player I could possibly see as being targetted for a trade by an opposing club.

Hudson will be 28 by the start of next season and given that he is returning from an ACL injury he also would be unlikely to attract suitors.

It is well documented that Adelaide's "fab four" (along with a few others) are approaching the end of their careers. This year only Goodwin & Edwards have been played permanently in the midfield (Roo has played mainly at FF, Macca off the HBF).

Adelaide need to be grooming the "next generation" of midfielders to take their place. For this reason, Adelaide would be reluctant to let go of the following players (though I have little doubt they would do so if someone made them an offer "too good to be true"):

• Darren Pfeiffer
• Richard Douglas
• Chris Knights
• Nathan Van Berlo
• Bernie Vince
• Jason Porplyzia
• Brent Reilly
• Scott Thompson

With Clarke set to retire at the end of this year, Biglands turning 29 in September and Hudson turning 28 before he plays again, Adelaide will be reluctant to release their three young ruckmen. It is NEVER a good idea to have less than four ruckmen on your list, lest one or two be struck down by injury. Once again, the following would be "reluctant to trade" but not "untouchable":

• John Meesen
• Jonathon Griffin
• Ivan Maric

Adelaide have very few developing KPPs, so the following are also "reluctant" but not "untouchable":

• Alan Obst
• Chad Gibson

Other than the "fab four", there is probably only ONE player who would be considered "untouchable", the rock on which our defence is built:

• Ben Rutten

As far as I can tell, the rest of them are all possible trade targets:

• John Hinge
• Luke Jericho
• Nathan Bock
• Hayden Skipworth
• Trent Hentschel
• Graham Johncock
• Martin Mattner
• Scott Stevens
• Ken McGregor
• Robert Shirley
• Kris Massie
• Michael Doughty
• Matthew Bode
• Ian Perrie

Obviously, some of them would demand a higher price than others. In particular, Johncock & Hentschel would demand a very high price indeed. I would expect nothing less than a top-10 selection for Stiffy, a price no team is likely to pay this year.

 

[LukeHodge15]

I’ve just skimmed this thread but my take on a few things is that players can not be 'developed' if they have not got it in them in the first place.

Some players that are the so-called 'bargain-picks' are not overlooked because they have less natural talent and are thus 'molded' into a footballer. They were overlooked because the recruiters were not looking in the right places. You can’t say it was right/wrong to take player ‘a’ or ‘b’ based on the general consensus of that player at the time when he was drafted. It is up to the individual recruiter to be able to judge which player has the most development potential.

If recruiters didn’t make so many mistakes then draft picks would not be as overrated as some of you claim they are.

true. but a question for u ? who was the last superstar footballer that was taken outside the top 20 over the last couple of years. drafting isnt an exact science but its slowly getting a better strikerate as the kids are being scrutinised more and recruiters have learnt from their screw ups of yesteryear.

 

[Vader]

mattner - 6.8.1982
skippy - 25.02.1983

for top 5 pick

hawks wouldnt go anywhere near that offer, because it doesnt bring to the table much of what we are crying out for.

question for u ?

would u give up those 2 players , for saint kildas first round draft pick (pick 10ish)

I understand and agree with your reasoning.

IMHO, Adelaide would jump at the opportunity to do the St Kilda deal. Given that the general concensus at the moment is that Skippy is headed for the chop, we'd really only be giving up Mattner for #10. I'd take that in an instant.

 

[LukeHodge15]

I understand and agree with your reasoning.

IMHO, Adelaide would jump at the opportunity to do the St Kilda deal. Given that the general concensus at the moment is that Skippy is headed for the chop, we'd really only be giving up Mattner for #10. I'd take that in an instant.

that is the position that hopefully u can get urself into. finding a club that think there premiership window is open and trading 2 B-graders for a pretty decent pick.

 

[spice18]

Yes instead of thinking about a premiership we have to think about the future as well. I think Brisbane have handled their list VERY VERY well. They won 3 premierships in a row and they still are in premiership contention now, Not as lethal as they were when they won their premierships but still gonig strong and not sitting on the bottom of the ladder.

If you seriously believe that, you must be from another planet, or maybe you are talking about a different premiership. They are struggling and may most probably NOT make the 8, and you still classify them as a premiership chance? How about showing some respect for genuine 'feather' premiership fancies like your mob, swans, eagles and magpies?

 

[LukeHodge15]

As far as I can tell, the rest of them are all possible trade targets:

• John Hinge
• Luke Jericho
• Nathan Bock
• Hayden Skipworth
• Trent Hentschel
• Graham Johncock
• Martin Mattner
• Scott Stevens
• Ken McGregor
• Robert Shirley
• Kris Massie
• Michael Doughty
• Matthew Bode
• Ian Perrie
  
  
• Darren Pfeiffer
• Richard Douglas
• Chris Knights
• Nathan Van Berlo
• Bernie Vince
• Jason Porplyzia
• Brent Reilly
  
  
• Ivan Maric
• John Meeson
  

.

great list, i would add ur youngsters mids and one of ur young ruckman to the list of possibles ...... the price must be right though.

if there is a chance u could get ur hands on a KP of the ilk of

seller
riewoldt
thorpe
gumbleton
mckenzie
hansen

i would taking a gamble by giving up something for a chance at these kids.

 

[LukeHodge15]

i think meeson-maric could be ur chance at getting a top 10 pick. packaging one of them with a midfieder could get u that top 10 pick.

do u reckon clubs would bite at [ rielly and meeson ] in a package deal. what would u expect for that ????

 

[RogerRabbit69]

It'd depend which club you were dealing with. But, in reality, the Crows took Meesen at No.8 (or something like that) and have put plenty of work into him over the past couple of years. Reilly was another high draft pick - about No.12 - and he's just starting to hit his straps. It's a lot to give up for a high draft pick this season, despite the supposed strength of this upcoming crop.

When you look at all these threads, it's easy to see the chances of trading for a high draft pick is extremely difficult - and highly improbable.

 

[Vader]

i think meeson-maric could be ur chance at getting a top 10 pick. packaging one of them with a midfieder could get u that top 10 pick.

do u reckon clubs would bite at [ rielly and meeson ] in a package deal. what would u expect for that ????

For those two in a package deal?

I'd expect a 1st round pick plus a 2nd round pick. The 1st rounder would have to be top-10.