List Mgmt. Draft Watch 2015

[LC40]

If McKay is taken the pick before us and Milera/Francis are gone I'm reckon Collins will be the first grabbed. I can't see him making it to pick 13.
Carlton I sure will look at him at 11.
Curnow may have thrown the cat amongst the pigeons, what if he slides to pick 8 what would Carlton do then?
I'm leaning to taking Collins first anyway and McKay next if Collins/Milera/Francis is gone.

 

[spenze]

Its looking like if collins is there at 13 we will take him.

If we draft "Bootsy" then we have "funky bass" covered for the next ten years

 

[WaynesWorld19]

But WW has said there is no way we will take Collins, even went so far today as calling taking Collins and Tucker a disaster...

I still believe Milera and Francis will likely be off the table before our pick.

Like you I believe once we got pick 9 from Geelong we were always going to take a KPP if one of suitable quality was available, I still think Hartigan is the real weakness is our spine and though he did show some improvement I'm far from convinced he's nailed down the CHB spot so I see Collins as an option. Surely someone puts in a bid on Hipwood??

Correct ....and prepared to put any amount of money on the fact we won't draft Collins, if your confident we will?

Hell man .....just some basic list analysis says we won't take a KPD .....plus Collins is a Talia clone and yeah we need 3 stopper KPD's on our list don't we (Hartigan, Talia & Collins)

What the hell is Lever ....Huh? .....FFS we were determined to get him last year as our CHB
You fail to even mention him in that conversation, which really says alot about your a) talent identification & b) list management

Hell you haven't even been able to be un-biased about Tucker

 

[WaynesWorld19]

If McKay is taken the pick before us and Milera/Francis are gone I'm reckon Collins will be the first grabbed. I can't see him making it to pick 13.
Carlton I sure will look at him at 11.
Curnow may have thrown the cat amongst the pigeons, what if he slide to pick 8 what would Carlton do then?
I'm leaning to taking Collins first anyway and McKay next if Collins/Milera/Francis is gone.

 

[Elite Crow]

Once again WW misses the point, I believe Bicks was pointing out we would not have spent a lot of time talking to Collins if there was NO WAY we would draft him

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Collins in Adelaide quoted on AFL.com ' I've spoken to the crows a lot and be happy to come down here '

Make no mistake , one of our selections will be a KP player

There are about 8 kids who think they could end up at Adelaide at pick 13

Tells me out recruiters have left nothing to chance and also keeping the other clubs guessing which is crucial with 2 picks close to each other

I like it

Amazing ...simply amazing ....one article & everyone jumps ship from previous wants and go 180degrees in the opposite direction

Don't worry about list management, best available ......press says ....so let it be

 

[hendo8888]

If we draft "Bootsy" then we have "funky bass" covered for the next ten years

Secret weapon being his big ball of t***ies.

 

[hendo8888]

Correct ....and prepared to put any amount of money on the fact we won't draft Collins, if your confident we will?

Hell man .....just some basic list analysis says we won't take a KPD .....plus Collins is a Talia clone and yeah we need 3 stopper KPD's on our list don't we (Hartigan, Talia & Collins)

What the hell is Lever ....Huh? .....FFS we were determined to get him last year as our CHB
You fail to even mention him in that conversation, which really says alot about your a) talent identification & b) list management

Hell you haven't even been able to be un-biased about Tucker

Or, you know, Lever can continue to play that 3rd tall role, which his body type better suits.
We currently have 2 genuine Key backs on our list, and Lever who is a more effective 3rd tall, who can also play 2nd if needed. I'd rather keep Lever in his natural role and have someone putting pressure on Hartigan, than just replace Hartigan with Lever and be stuck with Cheney/Otten/Shaw defending those 3rd talls, when we already have an undersized 2nd tall.
Collins fills a need, whether you accept it or not.

 

[LC40]

We'll agree to disagree, by the way I don't agree with your analysis at all. Never seen Lever as a KPD, oh well!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

We'll agree to disagree, by the way I don't agree with your analysis at all. Never seen Lever as a KPD, oh well!

Not one AFL club, not one phantom draft had Lever as anything other than a KPD

 

[Big Gazoongas]

Amazing ...simply amazing ....one article & everyone jumps ship from previous wants and go 180degrees in the opposite direction

Don't worry about list management, best available ......press says ....so let it be

Well actually Noble has said we traded for needs and the draft we would take the best available player.

 

[Vader]

Or, you know, Lever can continue to play that 3rd tall role, which his body type better suits.
We currently have 2 genuine Key backs on our list, and Lever who is a more effective 3rd tall, who can also play 2nd if needed. I'd rather keep Lever in his natural role and have someone putting pressure on Hartigan, than just replace Hartigan with Lever and be stuck with Cheney/Otten/Shaw defending those 3rd talls, when we already have an undersized 2nd tall.
Collins fills a need, whether you accept it or not.

Collins could well fill a need, but it's not a particularly high priority need.

Our #1 need right now is inside midfielders, preferably with some "outside" ability as well, given that we've lost our #1 clearance winner and our #2 is 10 months away from retirement. We still have adequate quantity when it comes to our inside mids, but we are rapidly approaching the point where we will have a distinct lack of quality. We're currently one of the best teams in the competition when it comes to winning the contested ball - that won't continue if Dangerfield & Thompson aren't replaced by some high quality extractors.

Not saying that the club won't draft Collins.. just that a KPD should not be a high priority for us (in my opinion).

 

[Pdub]

I've developed a plan to help us improve our picks

Step 1: ??????????????

Step 2: Depending on how effective step 1 was, Northern clubs are now either not allowed to take academy picks in the first round, or they are not allowed any advantages to take them.

Step 3: Mills, Hopper, Kennedy and Hipwood are all taken with real picks before ours, and our picks stay at 9 & 13 meaning only 4 non-academy kids have been taken before our first pick.

I just need someone to help me figure out what step 1 is before Tuesday.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Agree we will try to take a tall at one of our picks, I think Burton, Collins and maybe even Ben McKay are more likely at 13 if we get Milera at 9.

 

[Pdub]

Well actually Noble has said we traded for needs and the draft we would take the best available player.

It's the Matt Rendell philosophy and we have stuck with it since he left.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Two more player profiles up on the AFL site by Cal Twomey on 2 players who appear to be in the mix for us, Wayne Milera and Darcy Tucker.....really good analysis of both youngsters..

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-11-...he-prodigiously-talented-forward-wayne-milera

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-11-...ding-gun-with-a-lethal-left-foot-darcy-tucker

Now i tend to rate Quigley highly on his player analysis ........we've traded in 3 tallsih outside runners, Have lost an in-side beast and will lose another inside beast end of this season

So why not draft another outside player .......yep, who needs Wigg

QUOTE: Quigley Phantom Draft
29. Darcy Tucker

Ht – 183 Wt - 80

I have to say that I was a bit disappointed in Tucker this year after a very strong bottom aged year. He made the All Australian team last year as a bottom ager averaging 21 disposals a game but followed it up by only managing 17.5 disposals a game this year. He was far from poor this year but I like many just expected more from him.

Tucker is a wing or half back flanker athough the Ballarat talent manager is pretty certain that he is best as a back flanker. He was played a bit onball at TAC level this year and he was not terrible but it is pretty clear that he is an outside player first and foremost. He doesn’t really have the hands or ability to work in the phone box that the good inside players do. He is a nice combination of endurance and speed and likes to get up and down the park on the outside. He averaged a respectable 22.6 disposals a game at TAC level this year and I liked it that when he got his chance at VFL level he stood up getting 19 disposals and 7 marks whilst going at a tick under 80% DE.


Despite being on the outside Tucker does okay averaging 4 tackles a game across all levels this year. For the position he plays that is very good. He is runs both ways and whilst I would not describe him as a close checking defender I have not really noticed him being caught out defensively much either.


Tucker had a good Combine running an elite 15.2 in the beep, going under 3 seconds in the 20m and finishing in the top 15%-20% in the jumps. His 3km time and repeat sprint were also in the top quartile. So the kid is athletic. In game situations he is not the quickest guy off the mark and his is not the most elusive player out there that was born out in his testing. He does however have a reasonable top end pace wise and he likes to use his pace and will back himself.


Tucker is a strong rebounding player and likes to run and bounce. He covers a lot of ground and tends to play with pace. He is a balanced mover and gets to space pretty well. He does get scragged a bit but he shows good strength in the tackle, he holds his feet and has a nice ability to shake the tackler with body movement. When an opponent sticks the tackle he keeps his arms free in the tackle, is composed and usually manages to get the ball away to a teammate. He is not easy to get to the ground and even when he goes to ground he recovers quickly.


Skills wise, Tucker does his best work in space. He is a left footer who has neat skills but does go long to a contest too often. When delivering into 50 he gives his forwards a chance but he doesn’t often hit the forward lace out. When he gets inside 50 himself he manages to get free pretty well but he is not a great finisher. He misses some shots you would expect him to get. Overall though there is a fair to like with his kicking and I think he has the kicking skills to survive at AFL level. By hand he is a little slow and lacks a bit of zip but this is not that unusual and you usually see handballing skills improve a lot when players get into an AFL environment.


Tucker has a nice body shape and plays tall. He has a broad set of shoulders and should develop into a powerful athlete in an AFL environment. Tucker was held in very high regard at his TAC club for his leadership and it was noted that he has an “outstanding football brain”. He did all the opposition analysis this year for his TAC side. Tucker has the tools to be an AFL player although I am not 100% convinced that he makes it.

 

[Bicks]

Correct ....and prepared to put any amount of money on the fact we won't draft Collins, if your confident we will?

Hell man .....just some basic list analysis says we won't take a KPD .....plus Collins is a Talia clone and yeah we need 3 stopper KPD's on our list don't we (Hartigan, Talia & Collins)

What the hell is Lever ....Huh? .....FFS we were determined to get him last year as our CHB
You fail to even mention him in that conversation, which really says alot about your a) talent identification & b) list management

Hell you haven't even been able to be un-biased about Tucker

Way to miss the point!!!

If there was absolutely NO WAY we were interested in taking Kieran Collins with one of our picks our recruiting crew must really like wasting their time or have way too much time on their hands.......which I find just a tad hard to believe at this time of year.

Repeating the Kieran Collins quote posted above ' I've spoken to the crows a lot and be happy to come down here ' says at the least we are considering him as an option!

The difference between you and I is I'm not dogmatic on who we should or should not draft, I just have players I have a preference for but when all is said and done I'll back Ogilvie and co's superior knowledge.

I will however go on the record and say I will not be totally comfortable with using a 1st round pick on Ryan Burton should we choose to do so, but will I throw all my toys out of the pram in true WW style if we do.....No.

 

[Pdub]

Herald sun's phantom draft

1. Carlton – Jacob Weitering

2. Brisbane – Josh Schache

3. Sydney – Callum Mills*

4. Melbourne – Clayton Oliver

5. Essendon – Darcy Parish

6. Essendon – Aaron Francis

7. GWS – Jacob Hopper*

8. Gold Coast – Wayne Milera

9. Melbourne – Sam Weideman

10. Carlton - Harry McKay

11. GWS – Matthew Kennedy*

12. Adelaide – Callum Ah Chee

13. Carlton – Charlie Curnow

14. Richmond - Jade Gresham

15. Brisbane - Eric Hipwood*

16. Adelaide – Ryan Burton

*Matched Academy bids

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Well actually Noble has said we traded for needs and the draft we would take the best available player.

And you believe that ?

Coincidentally our drafts are coordinated tall focus and mid focus ......a coincidence?

Best available in the zone we're trying to fill the list need for is probably a better way of putting it ......that said if that player is not available then you're correct it's best talent

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Collins could well fill a need, but it's not a particularly high priority need.

Our #1 need right now is inside midfielders, preferably with some "outside" ability as well, given that we've lost our #1 clearance winner and our #2 is 10 months away from retirement. We still have adequate quantity when it comes to our inside mids, but we are rapidly approaching the point where we will have a distinct lack of quality. We're currently one of the best teams in the competition when it comes to winning the contested ball - that won't continue if Dangerfield & Thompson aren't replaced by some high quality extractors.

Not saying that the club won't draft Collins.. just that a KPD should not be a high priority for us (in my opinion).

Absolutely spot on ....and one of the few posters who understands the list makeup

 

[1990crow]

WW - you're completely illogical. Collins is a need if we think we can upgrade on Hartigan. And no, Lever is not the same type of player.

Collins and Milera would be ideal.

Brown ~ Collins ~ Lever
Laird ~ Talia ~ Seedsman

Top 4 defense in a few years.

 

[Ozzie]

Not one AFL club, not one phantom draft had Lever as anything other than a KPD

I'm still willing to think Lever will end up in the midfield. His legs are skinny and he has some sweet evasive skills. If we did take Collins and I think it is a BIG if, what is wrong with Collins, Talia and Hartigan as your three tall defenders? Lots of teams now have 2 forwards of 198-202 cms range. Still room for three small quick defenders to run the ball out of the back half.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Way to miss the point!!!

If there was absolutely NO WAY we were interested in taking Kieran Collins with one of our picks our recruiting crew must really like wasting there time or have way too much time on their hands.......which I find just a tad hard to believe at this time of year.

Repeating the Kieran Collins quote posted above ' I've spoken to the crows a lot and be happy to come down here ' says at the least we are considering him as an option!

The difference between you and I is I'm not dogmatic on who we should or should not draft, I just have players I have a preference for but when all is said and done I'll back Ogilvie and co's superior knowledge.

I will however go on the record and say I will not be totally comfortable with using a 1st round pick on Ryan Burton should we choose to do so, but will I throw all my toys out of the pram in true WW style if we do.....No.

The club has spoke to all players ranged pick 3 to probably pick 20

We have a lot of state based recruiters also interviewing ......did he say who interviewed him ?

I am not dogmatic in player opinions, but they're well considered in line with talent and needs ......i don't like many sway in the breeze from player to player as the media spotlight focusses on the next player

What's happened to the love for Mathieson, Balic .....gone cold?, or just no firm conviction because another player has his turn in the media spotlight

And God Forbid that any AFL club throws any red herrings around pre draft ........we're a club that has always played our cards close to our chest ......the media has very little idea of our draft or trading plans

 

[WaynesWorld19]

WW - you're completely illogical. Collins is a need if we think we can upgrade on Hartigan. And no, Lever is not the same type of player.

Collins and Milera would be ideal.

Brown ~ Collins ~ Lever
Laird ~ Talia ~ Seedsman

Top 4 defense in a few years.

So who were all the posters defending Hartigan and lambasting me because i said he's hopeless

So you want to use the 1st Round Picks ....not on talent, not on list need, but because there's a media report and it sounds a good idea

Show me your posts or anyone talking about drafting Collins a week ago ......wasn't it a good idea a week ago ? ....or just not topical

 

[Vader]

And you believe that ?

Coincidentally our drafts are coordinated tall focus and mid focus ......a coincidence?

Best available in the zone we're trying to fill the list need for is probably a better way of putting it ......that said if that player is not available then you're correct it's best talent

It's true, the club does draft on a "best available" basis. What's frequently overlooked in that statement, though implicit within it, is that the club's needs are taken into account when determining that "best available" ranking list.

The club goes into the draft with all of the likely prospects ranked on an "order of merit". They just grab the highest ranked player still available on that list. This is why Adelaide rarely (if ever) has to request a time extension when it's their turn to select a player. To this extent, drafting on the basis of "best available" is true and correct.

However, how that order of merit is generated is entirely a different matter. The club scores players based on a wide range of attributes - these would vary widely, including things like height, hand & foot skills, decision making, perceived talent, speed, endurance, home address. Various weightings are applied to these scores, before a final player score is determined. The player with the highest score is the highest ranked player. The weightings that they apply are largely determined on a needs basis. Thus needs play a significant role in determining the order of merit.