List Mgmt. Draft Watch 2015

[spenze]

Absolutely a monty to pick up Burton if he is there at pick 13. He is one centermetre shorter than the incomplete package and we have all watched him play this year after mangling his leg in his draft year.

If we get Francis or Milera or Oliver at 9 and Burton at 13 it is time to send the kids to bed, don the loosely tied bathrobe and let the good wife or girlfriend, or in some of you guys cases, a fleshlight, know that there will be a sweet, sweet nights lovin' ahead.

 

[lunacy]

Sloane is likely to be our best player in 2016, with Dangerfield gone and Thompson likely to start declining. His best value is not in playing as a pure inside midfielder - that's a waste of his talents. He is a good mix of inside & outside, not a pure inside extractor.

I disagree. I believe he is well suited to the role and would be playing that position if we had decent outside players in the past. I wish our inside mids did have a better combo of inside/outside. Look at Pendlebury, Heppell, Bennell, Ablett, O'Meara etc.

Who says inside mids need to be limited to pure inside capabilities?

 

[lunacy]

Which does beg the question... if they preferred to use Crouch & CEY as inside midfielders (and I'm agreeing with you here), what does that say about how highly they rate Grigg's inside abilities? He's not good enough to force his way ahead of his peers as an inside mid, so they're forced to try and reinvent him as an outside mid - a position for which he is inherently unsuited.

Grigg's natural position is in the SANFL.

It primarily says to me "shit we have now outside players and an over abundance of slow inside mids with average skills, we better use Sloane and Grigg on the outside because they at least have some attributes beneficial to us on the outside".

 

[lunacy]

This ....list balance is critical .....we don't want to over correct on our outside defficiency .......otherwise we'll be called the "handbag" Crows

Definitely need to target inside mids

What iam having difficulty with is the mentality of this board into Sub-consciously talking about #13 as a 2nd round pick rather than our first pick ...and treating it with the same approach we'd have on other years 1st round picks


Is this me, or are others feeling same?

Doesn't matter Ogilvie and co won't be thinking like that.

 

[Bicks]

I smell some "go home" factor with Parish and Mathieson here if either get drafted to interstate clubs, or the the possibility of an Aish and Scharenberg type scenario?....

Also remember reading a story a while back in the Geelong Advertiser about these two being fishing buddies as well as football buddies. Sound a bit similar to he who shan't be mentioned on the AFC board ever again?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/trading-and-drafting/afl-draft-2015-when-darcy-met-rhys-20151108-gktufu

 

[gilbp33]

As has been pointed out, his high DE is due to him making short kicks and handballs which have almost zero hurt factor attached to them. When he tries kicking it longer, it almost invariably ends up in the hands of the opposition. Crouch is the anti-Brodie Smith (a player who hurts the opposition by kicking the ball accurately over long distances, to the benefit of his teammates). I know Crouch is an inside mid, and Smith is an outside HBF, but Crouch is frequently hurts us more than he helps us with his poor disposal.

Crouch's poor disposal is the reason he slipped to #23 in his draft. He's always been a ball magnet and if his usage of the ball even closely matched his ability to win it then he would have gone much, much higher. Sadly, nothing has changed in that aspect since the day he was drafted. He still wins the ball with ease, then either does nothing with it or turns it over.

Vader I agree with a lot of what you say, which I'm sure puts me in the minority, but you are being unrealistically harsh on a kid who's played 20 odd games in 2 years. Has things to work on for sure, but has the makings of a very good footballer

 

[WaynesWorld19]

WW, can I ask do you have a family connection to Charlie Curnow or have you "cooled" on him already??

Or whoever your latest "fancy" is for that matter??

Unlike you my signature has remained unchanged for 6 weeks .....go ahead and put your choices up in your signature and then we can compare

 

[Vader]

Look at the first comment under the tweet. View attachment 192185

Lever was taken in the 2015 draft? Have we been playing an unregistered player for half the season? Nobody tell Rucci.

 

[Vader]

It primarily says to me "shit we have now outside players and an over abundance of slow inside mids with average skills, we better use Sloane and Grigg on the outside because they at least have some attributes beneficial to us on the outside".

I don't think Grigg is particularly good inside or outside. Hence why he spent most of the year in the SANFL, and now has a "dead man walking" contract for 2016.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Lever was taken in the 2015 draft? Have we been playing an unregistered player for half the season? Nobody tell Rucci.

Good point. Riley knight was 2013!

 

[Vader]

Vader I agree with a lot of what you say, which I'm sure puts me in the minority, but you are being unrealistically harsh on a kid who's played 20 odd games in 2 years. Has things to work on for sure, but has the makings of a very good footballer

It may not come across this way, but I do actually like Matt Crouch. It's just that people need to be realistic about his weaknesses, not just his strengths. I think he will be a good AFL player and will have a long AFL career. He's just never going to be an out-and-out gun player / champion because his disposal is so poor.

 

[Sanders]

As has been pointed out, his high DE is due to him making short kicks and handballs which have almost zero hurt factor attached to them.

You seem a bit confused old mucker.

First he burns the ball, and now when presented with evidence you say his high DE is due to short passes with little impact.

Those are contrary positions diametrically opposed. If he only chips short, then he doesn't burn.

Between you, Nikki and WW I'm convinced there is a brand of TV that ought to be on the WADA prohibition list. Not only does it distort reality it gives a false sense of confidence to go with it

OMG... That sounds like Coke. It's coke isn't it. You do lines when watching games. Now it all makes sense.

 

[NTRabbit]

You seem a bit confused old mucker.

DE is a deceptive stat. You're reading way too much into it.

 

[LC40]

Well no. Crouch's role is that of an inside midfielder so his main job is to win the clearances and get the ball out to players that can be more damaging (You're last sentence is spot on, and the role of any inside midfielder). One that can do damage is just icing, but you can be in the elite echelon as an inside midfielder without being one that does, hell Thommo has been elite for years and arguably he doesn't do much damage with his disposal, and he certainly isn't breaking any lines.

A recent midfielder doesn't do either and just won a Brownlow. In fact most inside midfielders don't do either, or very rarely do. There are some that break the norm of course, and those that do tend to be absolute superstars.

Well, we have a vastly different opinion on the role of a mid fielder. I'm definitely interpreting the game differently to you.
I don't see that with Thommo or the recent 'Brownlow' winner. I see players who do hit targets when they kick with penetration.
Crouch is young, needs a full pre-season and the added responsibility he'll get now PD is gone should increase his playing time.
IMO he needs to move the ball on quicker with his kicking and with more length to break the line.His short chips maintain possession but holds up the play and allows defences time to adjust. Long floating bombs into an area after hanging onto the ball are just as bad.
Something Thommo and the Brownlow winner can not be accused of.
Still each to their own.

 

[Sanders]

DE is a deceptive stat. You're reading way too much into it.

its not deceptive in that context. a player cannot have high DE and burn the ball. he just can't.
he can have high DE and gain no metres. he can have high DE and do nothing useful with it. he can hold onto too long, and go backwards. but he cannot burn it AND have high DE.

mutually exclusive criticisms.

 

[NTRabbit]

its not deceptive in that context. a player cannot have high DE and burn the ball. he just can't.
he can have high DE and gain no metres. he can have high DE and do nothing useful with it. he can hold onto too long, and go backwards. but he cannot burn it AND have high DE.

mutually exclusive criticisms.

Yes he can, because the DE stat is only ever recorded in isolation. It makes no attempt to record the result beyond the immediate hands on the ball - it's entirely possible to directly create a turnover and still be credited with an effective disposal.

 

[Elite Crow]

Unlike you my signature has remained unchanged for 6 weeks .....go ahead and put your choices up in your signature and then we can compare

Oh Bicks look a dare, are you going to do it or are you chicken?

 

[Scorpus]

Yes he can, because the DE stat is only ever recorded in isolation. It makes no attempt to record the result beyond the immediate hands on the ball - it's entirely possible to directly create a turnover and still be credited with an effective disposal.

This is true.

Kicking long to a 50/50 contest is an 'effective' disposal, but it might result in an immediate turnover with the opposition gaining possession from the 50/50.

It also doesn't take into account kicking long to a 50/50 when there's a better option available, or kicking in such a way that a good option is turned into a 50/50

 

[Hodgy]

It may not come across this way, but I do actually like Matt Crouch. It's just that people need to be realistic about his weaknesses, not just his strengths. I think he will be a good AFL player and will have a long AFL career. He's just never going to be an out-and-out gun player / champion because his disposal is so poor.

100% correct unfortunately. I actually don't think we can play him and Thommo in the same side. We just can't afford that many poor disposals from the midfield and expect to win.

 

[Hodgy]

There isnt a rulebook that states a player can only play inside or outside mid.

Great point. I couldn't agree more. We try and pigeon hole players as inside or outside but the majority are just midfielders. Sloane, Danger and Dougie all get there own footy and at times can use it very well so they aren't really inside or outside. What I really think we need is balanced midfielders who can actually dispose of the footy well. Oliver looks the best in this crop for that to me but I think Milera or Francis will be great creative mids in the future as well. I would be happy with any of these 3 with our first pick while I'd be happy to take a bit of a risk at 13 with either Burton or Ah Chee, both have very high upside.

 

[Danger in Texas]

It may not come across this way, but I do actually like Matt Crouch. It's just that people need to be realistic about his weaknesses, not just his strengths. I think he will be a good AFL player and will have a long AFL career. He's just never going to be an out-and-out gun player / champion because his disposal is so poor.

It can improve, though. We all thought CEY had shit disposal when he started to get games (he did have it when he got drafted), but it has improved out of sight. I see the same happening with BOB over the next few seasons.

 

[Hodgy]

BTW please, please no Mathieson. I watched him through the championships and I've never seen any midfielder panic and simply hurl the ball over his head more than this lad. Makes Thommo look like a pin point disposer.

 

[rezagun]

Great point. I couldn't agree more. We try and pigeon hole players as inside or outside but the majority are just midfielders. Sloane, Danger and Dougie all get there own footy and at times can use it very well so they aren't really inside or outside. What I really think we need is balanced midfielders who can actually dispose of the footy well. Oliver looks the best in this crop for that to me but I think Milera or Francis will be great creative mids in the future as well. I would be happy with any of these 3 with our first pick while I'd be happy to take a bit of a risk at 13 with either Burton or Ah Chee, both have very high upside.

Spot on. yep if we can get oliver, milera or francis with pick 9 and then a talent at 13 it will be great. Burton and ah chee both have huge ceilings but some significant risk. It will be interesting to see what we do.

 

[Cleric]

As has been pointed out, his high DE is due to him making short kicks and handballs which have almost zero hurt factor attached to them. When he tries kicking it longer, it almost invariably ends up in the hands of the opposition. Crouch is the anti-Brodie Smith (a player who hurts the opposition by kicking the ball accurately over long distances, to the benefit of his teammates). I know Crouch is an inside mid, and Smith is an outside HBF, but Crouch is frequently hurts us more than he helps us with his poor disposal.

Crouch's poor disposal is the reason he slipped to #23 in his draft. He's always been a ball magnet and if his usage of the ball even closely matched his ability to win it then he would have gone much, much higher. Sadly, nothing has changed in that aspect since the day he was drafted. He still wins the ball with ease, then either does nothing with it or turns it over.

Short kicks and handballs is due to the position he plays, inside mid, and Brodie Smiths long kicking is due to position he plays, outside with space to burn.

 

[cammo6556]

No, and not an oversight, not on the Milera bandwagon at all, time will tell if I'm wrong.......or right?

Fair enough... I'm not as big on him as others, but think the kid will be ok.

Of course I don't know much.