Draft Winners and Losers

[jdstorm]

The list of KPF forwards taken with top-6 picks the last 20-years:

Tom Boyd - fail
Jon Patton - fail
McCartin - fail
Cadman - promising signs but who knows?
JUH - looking good but a bit flaky
McDonald - solid player but not looking like a star.
Max King - injury prone and flaky
Lukosius - soft and just got traded
Schache - fail
Sam Day - fail
Watts - fail
Gumbleton - fail
Thorp - fail

The last ‘generational forward’ to go top-6 in the open draft was Josh Kennedy who went pick-4 in 2005.

So I don’t think we will lose any sleep worrying about 2 x generational forwards popping out of the ground in the 2025 draft - even if they appear to be there the list above advises probably best to avoid.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

That’s a pretty bias list. Cutting off a year before Buddy/Roughhead to prove a point sure is something.

Some more recent players you didn’t include all of whom look pretty good.

Thilthorpe
Walter
Mac Andrew
Sean Darcy
Luke Jackson. (has a flag)


Throw in father sons Danniher (flag for Brisbane) and Hawkins (multiple flags) and Jezza (rookie pre selection) who were all rated at the pointy end and your looking at these top 5ish talls winning 50% of the flags in the last 20 years.

It’s a risky buisness to be in like you’ve articulated. Especially when a bunch of these guys get traded. Buddy, Jezza, Daniher, Luke Jackson, throw in Lynch as part of the traded group and that’s a fair few flags in that group of players that weren’t on the team that drafted them. (Or we’re later traded in Jackson’s case)

 

[Obeanie1]

I think you may be confused, actually you are more likely deliberately obtuse

You said Shanahan was rated the second best KP player in the draft

I said prove it, you did not, you did not because your claim about recruiters stating this publicly is garbage and you know it

Then I showed you that no one took him in the top 29 picks, and that richmond had 8 chances to take him and didn't

Then you changed the subject

I do not know who will better as KP in this draft, I do know Faull was the highest rated tall, by at least 2 clubs, I also know Armstrong had the best resume.

You should own your opinions, do not back track when challenged, What you could say is that it is just your view, your opinion, which is fair enough, but it certainly is not an opinion stated by a recruiter publicly, that is for sure

Lol.

You should accept that all this is just opinion.

And that yours isnt the only one. Noticed that when anyone has a different opinion to you you start demanding written evidence and links etc. I asked the same from you and you got defensive and didnt provide anything. So much for owning your opinion.

This BS about 7 1st rounders will all work out and in two drafts will propell the Tigers into contention in 5 uears. It your opinion. History has shown that rebuilding is not easy and takes time, effort and a fair amount of good fortune. That isnt an opinion BTW its historical fact.

You have your opinion.

Other have different opinions.

Thats life.

 

[blaisee]

Lol.

You should accept that all this is just opinion.

And that yours isnt the only one. Noticed that when anyone has a different opinion to you you start demanding written evidence and links etc. I asked the same from you and you got defensive and didnt provide anything. So much for owning your opinion.

This BS about 7 1st rounders will all work out and in two drafts will propell the Tigers into contention in 5 uears. It your opinion. History has shown that rebuilding is not easy and takes time, effort and a fair amount of good fortune. That isnt an opinion BTW its historical fact.

You have your opinion.

Other have different opinions.

Thats life.

Yes we will see

 

[SplintWhisky]

Geelong walk away with 3 blokes nobody had ever heard of and an NGA that Stkilda didn't bother matching. So yeah I'd say we're the winners obviously.

Yeah, and somehow the one no rates will immediately have a B to B+ level of input next year

 

[tiger_tough]

That’s a pretty bias list. Cutting off a year before Buddy/Roughhead to prove a point sure is something.

Some more recent players you didn’t include all of whom look pretty good.

Thilthorpe
Walter
Mac Andrew
Sean Darcy
Luke Jackson. (has a flag)


Throw in father sons Danniher (flag for Brisbane) and Hawkins (multiple flags) and Jezza (rookie pre selection) who were all rated at the pointy end and your looking at these top 5ish talls winning 50% of the flags in the last 20 years.

It’s a risky buisness to be in like you’ve articulated. Especially when a bunch of these guys get traded. Buddy, Jezza, Daniher, Luke Jackson, throw in Lynch as part of the traded group and that’s a fair few flags in that group of players that weren’t on the team that drafted them. (Or we’re later traded in Jackson’s case)

Thilthorpe generational? I like him but not at all likely
Walter has played 1 season
Mac Andrew has potential but more likely to end up a KPD
Darcy and Jackson are ruckman?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Bahahaha. Carlton haven’t made a Grand Final for 25-years. And have finished top-4 once … once … in the last 25-years. Back to bed poppet.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I thought this thread was about Richmond losing the draft. Didn't realise Carlton were the topic here.

 

[jdstorm]

Thilthorpe generational? I like him but not at all likely
Walter has played 1 season
Mac Andrew has potential but more likely to end up a KPD
Darcy and Jackson are ruckman?

Most top KPP are playing some ruck. Teams are rarely going to carry a 200cm forward and 2 rucks.

Calling Jackson a primary ruck when he won a flag next to Max Gawn and plays next to Darcy is a stretch

Same as The Bulldogs committing to Tim English at Ruck.

Hawkins played a lot of Ruck for Geelong in his later years because that’s just the position now.

Talls take time and Thilthorpe has progressed well. It’s hard to be a forward on a bad team. Crows score lots of points so their forwards are doing a good job.

….

As for the Gold Coast pair. See how things go. Andrew just looked so Dynamic as a Ruck/CHF I’d be shocked if he didn’t settle there playing as a 200cm Adam Goodes type.

Think Ben King is the odd one out. Just like Carlton had to drop Pitonet this year as he was making them too tall and now McKay is their Ruck/Forward.

 

[tiger_tough]

Most top KPP are playing some ruck. Teams are rarely going to carry a 200cm forward and 2 rucks.

Calling Jackson a primary ruck when he won a flag next to Max Gawn and plays next to Darcy is a stretch

Same as The Bulldogs committing to Tim English at Ruck.

Hawkins played a lot of Ruck for Geelong in his later years because that’s just the position now.

Talls take time and Thilthorpe has progressed well. It’s hard to be a forward on a bad team. Crows score lots of points so their forwards are doing a good job.

….

As for the Gold Coast pair. See how things go. Andrew just looked so Dynamic as a Ruck/CHF I’d be shocked if he didn’t settle there playing as a 200cm Adam Goodes type.

Think Ben King is the odd one out. Just like Carlton had to drop Pitonet this year as he was making them too tall and now McKay is their Ruck/Forward.

LOL sorry?

You're just dribbling crap now

 

[jdstorm]

LOL sorry?

You're just dribbling crap now

has Max Gawn been playing forward now?

How’d that work out for Brodie Grundy

 

[tiger_tough]

has Max Gawn been playing forward now?

How’d that work out for Brodie Grundy

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. We're talking about key forwards. That ain't Grundy, Gawn, Darcy, or Jackson, English etc etc.

That's enough.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I liked Richmond’s strategy as it looked like an absolutely ideal draft to load up on “talls”, in the 20’s and 30’s in particular.

I said pre draft that I wouldn’t have minded if we’d split pick 8 (which became 10) for say 3 picks in the 20’s or so, and gone tall with those picks.

As much as I love Tauru, is he really likely to be better value than grabbing say all of Shanahan and both Whitlocks, instead? Or Armstrong, Shanahan and M Whitlock?

Obviously doing it that way would cost a couple of extra list spots, but it gives you 3 bites at the cherry instead of one.

So yeah, I’m all on board with Richmond’s strategy.

 

[jdstorm]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. We're talking about key forwards. That ain't Grundy, Gawn, Darcy, or Jackson, English etc etc.

That's enough.

Jackson and Bulldogs Darcy are very much Key forwards

Key forward covers both FF and CHF. Some teams have FF rotate with ruck and a permanent CHF. Others rotate CHF with ruck and have a permanent FF

Either is fine just depends on talent you have available.

Gawn, Grundy and English definitely aren’t forwards In fact they are pretty awful at it. So I’m not sure why your discounting Jackson and Darcy as forwards when that’s where they mostly play

 

[tiger_tough]

Jackson and Bulldogs Darcy are very much Key forwards

Key forward covers both FF and CHF. Some teams have FF rotate with ruck and a permanent CHF. Others rotate CHF with ruck and have a permanent FF

Either is fine just depends on talent you have available.

Gawn, Grundy and English definitely aren’t forwards In fact they are pretty awful at it. So I’m not sure why your discounting Jackson and Darcy as forwards when that’s where they mostly play

That's Sam Darcy ya peanut. You said Sean.

 

[WCE_phil]

Personally think Richmond have taken huge risks.

Hotton with major scar tissue in the knee and not running yet
Smillie I was super keen on going into the year but fell away as others developed physically (it's a bad sign)
6 Concussions already Luke Trainor (who is also undersized)

They got a great trade from North during the draft

Armstrong was exceptional value however in reality I think most teams would have had Faull as the third or 4th best tall forward.

Sims just made no sense to me.

In regards to talls WCE had Shanahan at 12, Armstrong at 14 on their board and both Whitlocks higher than Faull or Sims. Trainor due to concussion issues wasn't even on the draft board.

Lalor I was huge on and WCE had him at number 1 as well. But you're drafting on potential not output. He could be an absolute rolled gold star but he could also just be a mid sized forward or utility who has 1-2 seasons where he is a top player (similar to De Goey)

North took a huge risk on FOS after he showed seven shades of **** all this year

Jagga 'Chris Masten' Smith

That's not to say the WCE didn't make mistakes. I personally am not a huge fan of Allan and think he's one of the most physically developed in the draft class and secondly hasn't shown the ability to rack up numbers as a mid. We missed out on Boxshall because the saints pipped up as well. If you look at every player the eagles drafted however you can see a distinct role and type. We drafted for speed, aggression, marking and ground ball ability.

The top end of this draft was dead average and the most likely player to be very, very good is Draper. Lower ceiling than Lalor and FOS but a lot less risk. None of them would have gone top 3 last year. The draft however did have absolutely amazing depth across almost all areas bar Rucks.

Thought Port did amazingly well considering their picks and Brisbane kissed on the dick again with FS & Academy. Also thought overall Adelaide had a great trade/draft period. Lastly thought Melbourne did well in teaming up Langford & Lindsay

 

[tiger_tough]

Personally think Richmond have taken huge risks.

Hotton with major scar tissue in the knee and not running yet
Smillie I was super keen on going into the year but fell away as others developed physically (it's a bad sign)
6 Concussions already Luke Trainor (who is also undersized)

They got a great trade from North during the draft

Armstrong was exceptional value however in reality I think most teams would have had Faull as the third or 4th best tall forward.

Sims just made no sense to me.

In regards to talls WCE had Shanahan at 12, Armstrong at 14 on their board and both Whitlocks higher than Faull or Sims. Trainor due to concussion issues wasn't even on the draft board.

Lalor I was huge on and WCE had him at number 1 as well. But you're drafting on potential not output. He could be an absolute rolled gold star but he could also just be a mid sized forward or utility who has 1-2 seasons where he is a top player (similar to De Goey)

North took a huge risk on FOS after he showed seven shades of **** all this year

Jagga 'Chris Masten' Smith

That's not to say the WCE didn't make mistakes. I personally am not a huge fan of Allan and think he's one of the most physically developed in the draft class and secondly hasn't shown the ability to rack up numbers as a mid. We missed out on Boxshall because the saints pipped up as well. If you look at every player the eagles drafted however you can see a distinct role and type. We drafted for speed, aggression, marking and ground ball ability.

The top end of this draft was dead average and the most likely player to be very, very good is Draper. Lower ceiling than Lalor and FOS but a lot less risk. None of them would have gone top 3 last year. The draft however did have absolutely amazing depth across almost all areas bar Rucks.

Thought Port did amazingly well considering their picks and Brisbane kissed on the dick again with FS & Academy. Also thought overall Adelaide had a great trade/draft period. Lastly thought Melbourne did well in teaming up Langford & Lindsay

haha sure thing Duane

 

[aussierulesrules]

Personally think Richmond have taken huge risks.

Hotton with major scar tissue in the knee and not running yet
Smillie I was super keen on going into the year but fell away as others developed physically (it's a bad sign)
6 Concussions already Luke Trainor (who is also undersized)

They got a great trade from North during the draft

Armstrong was exceptional value however in reality I think most teams would have had Faull as the third or 4th best tall forward.

Sims just made no sense to me.

In regards to talls WCE had Shanahan at 12, Armstrong at 14 on their board and both Whitlocks higher than Faull or Sims. Trainor due to concussion issues wasn't even on the draft board.

Lalor I was huge on and WCE had him at number 1 as well. But you're drafting on potential not output. He could be an absolute rolled gold star but he could also just be a mid sized forward or utility who has 1-2 seasons where he is a top player (similar to De Goey)

North took a huge risk on FOS after he showed seven shades of **** all this year

Jagga 'Chris Masten' Smith

That's not to say the WCE didn't make mistakes. I personally am not a huge fan of Allan and think he's one of the most physically developed in the draft class and secondly hasn't shown the ability to rack up numbers as a mid. We missed out on Boxshall because the saints pipped up as well. If you look at every player the eagles drafted however you can see a distinct role and type. We drafted for speed, aggression, marking and ground ball ability.

The top end of this draft was dead average and the most likely player to be very, very good is Draper. Lower ceiling than Lalor and FOS but a lot less risk. None of them would have gone top 3 last year. The draft however did have absolutely amazing depth across almost all areas bar Rucks.

Thought Port did amazingly well considering their picks and Brisbane kissed on the dick again with FS & Academy. Also thought overall Adelaide had a great trade/draft period. Lastly thought Melbourne did well in teaming up Langford & Lindsay

What were your thoughts on the Saints haul, in particular Travaglia, Tauru and Dodson- who some of those who have seen him training so far reckon could be playing as soon as his second season?

 

[jdstorm]

That's Sam Darcy ya peanut. You said Sean.

Whoops. Shit happens both are S Darcy. Sorry I wasn’t clearer on that.

 

[WCE_phil]

What were your thoughts on the Saints haul, in particular Travaglia, Tauru and Dodson- who some of those who have seen him training so far reckon could be playing as soon as his second season?

Dodson wasn't seen as a priority for WCE (even though our ruck department is beyond shit)

We had Travaglia at 11 and knew Tauru would be off the board. Tauru is probably equal in my mind with Lalor & FOS in regards to ceiling. The question is does he keep growing and what role does he play.

He's an unbelievable athlete and has come a long way and quickly, it just comes down to whether or not he can put all that talent together on field.

It was a very weak year for Rucks in general and TBH the strongest ruck in the pool imo was Knobel. What is absolutely hilarious is Freo were originally asking too much for him to be traded only to delist him and have him snatched by GC after Knobel and his manager stated he either 100% wanted to stay at Freo or if not to head back to Victoria. I'm by no means writing Dodson off as he performed very well this year, it was just a very weak U18 year for rucks.

 

[Saints2028onwards]

Simms was a grave mistake by the tigers.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Personally think Richmond have taken huge risks.

Hotton with major scar tissue in the knee and not running yet
Smillie I was super keen on going into the year but fell away as others developed physically (it's a bad sign)
6 Concussions already Luke Trainor (who is also undersized)

They got a great trade from North during the draft

Armstrong was exceptional value however in reality I think most teams would have had Faull as the third or 4th best tall forward.

Sims just made no sense to me.

In regards to talls WCE had Shanahan at 12, Armstrong at 14 on their board and both Whitlocks higher than Faull or Sims. Trainor due to concussion issues wasn't even on the draft board.

Lalor I was huge on and WCE had him at number 1 as well. But you're drafting on potential not output. He could be an absolute rolled gold star but he could also just be a mid sized forward or utility who has 1-2 seasons where he is a top player (similar to De Goey)

North took a huge risk on FOS after he showed seven shades of **** all this year

Jagga 'Chris Masten' Smith

That's not to say the WCE didn't make mistakes. I personally am not a huge fan of Allan and think he's one of the most physically developed in the draft class and secondly hasn't shown the ability to rack up numbers as a mid. We missed out on Boxshall because the saints pipped up as well. If you look at every player the eagles drafted however you can see a distinct role and type. We drafted for speed, aggression, marking and ground ball ability.

The top end of this draft was dead average and the most likely player to be very, very good is Draper. Lower ceiling than Lalor and FOS but a lot less risk. None of them would have gone top 3 last year. The draft however did have absolutely amazing depth across almost all areas bar Rucks.

Thought Port did amazingly well considering their picks and Brisbane kissed on the dick again with FS & Academy. Also thought overall Adelaide had a great trade/draft period. Lastly thought Melbourne did well in teaming up Langford & Lindsay

I agreed with you until the Chris Masten comparison. Chris Masten averaged 25 touches in his U18 year, Jagga averaged what? 35? and had games against men in the VFL where he had 30+ on multiple occasions. Completely different players.

 

[Moonatic77]

Strategically it was the right way to go, especially when Richmond's time frame is to contend in 5 years

All depends if the players selected will be good enough, lets see what happens

where did you hear this from?

 

[tiger_tough]

I agreed with you until the Chris Masten comparison. Chris Masten averaged 25 touches in his U18 year, Jagga averaged what? 35? and had games against men in the VFL where he had 30+ on multiple occasions. Completely different players.

No....no he didn't.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

No....no he didn't.

This article suggests otherwise, he at least had 30 in one of his VFL games. I may have been off by one.

VFL Player Focus: Jagga Smith (Richmond)

Oakleigh Chargers captain Jagga Smith got his first taste of state league footy over the weekend, starring for Richmond's VFL side.

central.rookieme.com

 

[Saints2028onwards]

Simms. wtf. 100% bust. Happy to bet anyone. Tauru > Smillie. Tigers picks very risky.

 

[WCE_phil]

I agreed with you until the Chris Masten comparison. Chris Masten averaged 25 touches in his U18 year, Jagga averaged what? 35? and had games against men in the VFL where he had 30+ on multiple occasions. Completely different players.

Both undersized, both very quick and exceptional clearance players at U18 level. Masten a better kick, worse decision maker. Both seen as fast and slippery when drafted. Jagga is more slippery and better off the ground and by hand but is a significantly worse kick. Masten also played WAFL league his entire junior year and in his first senior year averaged 26.5 disposals per game there. Jagga Smith will be bullied off the ball on the inside against top level mids.

Was too weak to make it inside so had to transition to a more outside role. Had one elite year in 2013 with decent years between 13-15.

Lastly let me know how many years from now it is until Smith/Tsatas/Masten takes to reach 78-81kg playing weight as that was Mastens.