Dropping Things Off Your CV

[Gough]

Where on earth did he say he didn't have friends outside of his school network? I also went to a highly respected high school, and I will always have it on my CV for that very reason (not that it really helps in my profession). I still have close mates from school, but don't bother with any of the old scholar events. And I have plenty of close friends from university. My parents worked their arses off to send me to that school, and I'm not gonna feel bad about it because someone sees it as 'pathetic'.

If you live in Adelaide and your school wasn't east of Decquetteville Tce, it's not highly respected.

 

[J_Moore]

Old boy network vs Simulated High Altitude training Room. Which is more valuable?

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

I'm hiring.

Chain me up and I'm all yours, Baby!!!

 

[pantskyle]

Chain me up and I'm all yours, Baby!!!

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Where on earth did he say he didn't have friends outside of his school network? I also went to a highly respected high school, and I will always have it on my CV for that very reason (not that it really helps in my profession). I still have close mates from school, but don't bother with any of the old scholar events. And I have plenty of close friends from university. My parents worked their arses off to send me to that school, and I'm not gonna feel bad about it because someone sees it as 'pathetic'.

You missed the point of my post.

I was answering a post by someone who had been through a very similar experience to me (winning an academic scholarship to a top school). In the post, he outlined his experience and explained how the old-school tie "system" worked and then went on to explain that the option of working hard, as he said he did, to get a scholarship and gain entry to one of these schools and then take advantage of their old boys/girls networks was open to everyone. He saw it as a positive thing overall and certainly seemed to be justifying the concept.

As my situation was similar, I simply wanted to point out that not everyone thinks his way and offered my perspective of life in these schools and afterwards. one of these negatives that I and many others note are the incredibly narrow circles of close friends and partners that those who attended theses schools keep well after school. In my view it is quite pathetic to hold onto this for so long and no amount of brilliant networking would make up for living such a sheltered life as many of my friends from school have. What many see as a positive with these schools (the old school tie network) I actually see as a stifling, elitist and quite frankly unfair (on the rest of society) thing.

 

[Run n Spread]

Just list the jobs and degrees with relevance. School (unless first job) is completely irrelevant. Just list relevant degrees and the institution. The main goal of a resume is to prove you can demonstrate value to the position you are applying for. Too much irrelevant shit and you risk being shoved away as unqualified/unsuited. Look at the skills/requirements needed and simply apply them front and centre to the resume.

 

[checkraiseulite]

As my situation was similar, I simply wanted to point out that not everyone thinks his way and offered my perspective of life in these schools and afterwards. one of these negatives that I and many others note are the incredibly narrow circles of close friends and partners that those who attended theses schools keep well after school.

I'd love to know how this is different for any other school.

It seems like just Australian culture that most people's strongest friendships are formed in HS, and people tend to remain close with their HS friendship groups for most of their lives.

Obv you can only speak to your experience which is that your friends from HS have remained close and not integrated into the broader social reality as you have have. But I doubt many people from suburban state school x have ventured much outside their friendship group either.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

I'd love to know how this is different for any other school.

It seems like just Australian culture that most people's strongest friendships are formed in HS, and people tend to remain close with their HS friendship groups for most of their lives.

Obv you can only speak to your experience which is that your friends from HS have remained close and not integrated into the broader social reality as you have have. But I doubt many people from suburban state school x have ventured much outside their friendship group either.

Mine aren't. Mosta my former school mates are either dead, drug addicted or in gaol.

 

[AGC]

You missed the point of my post.

I was answering a post by someone who had been through a very similar experience to me (winning an academic scholarship to a top school). In the post, he outlined his experience and explained how the old-school tie "system" worked and then went on to explain that the option of working hard, as he said he did, to get a scholarship and gain entry to one of these schools and then take advantage of their old boys/girls networks was open to everyone. He saw it as a positive thing overall and certainly seemed to be justifying the concept.

As my situation was similar, I simply wanted to point out that not everyone thinks his way and offered my perspective of life in these schools and afterwards. one of these negatives that I and many others note are the incredibly narrow circles of close friends and partners that those who attended theses schools keep well after school. In my view it is quite pathetic to hold onto this for so long and no amount of brilliant networking would make up for living such a sheltered life as many of my friends from school have. What many see as a positive with these schools (the old school tie network) I actually see as a stifling, elitist and quite frankly unfair (on the rest of society) thing.

Yep, I only choose to associate with other Private and Selective School Boys and Girls. And what's more, I went to hook up with this chick last week, asked her what high school she was from, she said "Genazano" and immediately kicked her out. Only MLC or PLC please, i'm not slumming it with any other non-Private burd!

What a ridiculous generalisation to call it sheltered life. Do you honestly think that people make a conscious effort to not interact with others who fall outside high school networks, or only choose to maintain a narrow circle of friends? If so, i'd suggest you may have a problem with your friendship circle.
Chances are these friendships are forged by circumstance, or similar interests which are often fostered through activities offered at these schools (for instance I am still close to my high school rugby team) or socio-economic status (eg/ if someone grew up in Camberwell and went to Scotch, they're more likely to run into people in their general day to day life that happen to live in this suburb and unsurprisingly would attend a private school - being a richer area). There's a myriad of factors that cause friendships to forge. But mostly, your fondest memories are from high school and uni, and a lot of friendships are borne from there.

I think Old Boys networks are fantastic. Having access to careers nights, seminars etc are invaluable for anybody that wants to progress in their career and learn, as well as build fantastic mentoring relationships with distinguished individuals. If there is an opportunity to do so; of course I'm going to leverage it and give myself every opportunity to make myself better. You may dislike it, but frankly - life is unfair. I'm ambitious and I'm going to do everything I can to make myself better. You may call that pathetic. I'll call it pragmatic.

 

[The Passenger]

three lines. name, number, e-mail, always does the trick

 

[NarklesHelmet]

I'd love to know how this is different for any other school.

It seems like just Australian culture that most people's strongest friendships are formed in HS, and people tend to remain close with their HS friendship groups for most of their lives.

Obv you can only speak to your experience which is that your friends from HS have remained close and not integrated into the broader social reality as you have have. But I doubt many people from suburban state school x have ventured much outside their friendship group either.

It's certainly something I have noticed through my life, half of my family were public school educated, the other private so it is interesting to compare. In our wide circles of friends, it is really pronounced the differences between the way the private school kids mix compared to the public school ones. Of course there are exceptions, there always are, but overall the cliques formed from these private schools are very powerful and stronger than your normal public school connections.

I think you were right to mention Australian culture there as well. My wife is Swedish and we lived in Australia for four years. It's public education all the way in Sweden pretty much (both high school and university) and she couldn't get over when we would meet up with old school friends of mine in Melbourne with regard to how much, 10 years after school finished, my friends still caught up with each other every weekend and also how their partners were all from certain schools as well. In Sweden it simply wouldn't happen like that to the extent it does in Melbourne. Life begins after school and the possibility that listing your high school on a CV would be seen to give an advantage is simply laughable (a good thing in my opinion).

 

[NarklesHelmet]

What a ridiculous generalisation to call it sheltered life. Do you honestly think that people make a conscious effort to not interact with others who fall outside high school networks, or only choose to maintain a narrow circle of friends? If so, i'd suggest you may have a problem with your friendship circle.

Hmm, seeing as the vast majority of my friends went straight out of school into playing football for the schools "old" football team and going to Melbourne Uni, I'd say that yeah, the effort was pretty conscious. It simply isn't the same in other countries. Each summer at my work we get an intake of students from Princeton as interns. Princeton is pretty much the prestigious college in the states. But all of these kids move from their hometowns across the USA to study there, leaving networks from high school behind (and yes I know that college networks can be cliquey as well but that is an issue for another thread). The idea of a high school being a determining factor years after is a depressing phenomenon and reality in Australia that really only suits those who went to the good schools: no one else.

Chances are these friendships are forged by circumstance, or similar interests which are often fostered through activities offered at these schools (for instance I am still close to my high school rugby team) or socio-economic status (eg/ if someone grew up in Camberwell and went to Scotch, they're more likely to run into people in their general day to day life that happen to live in this suburb and unsurprisingly would attend a private school - being a richer area). There's a myriad of factors that cause friendships to forge. But mostly, your fondest memories are from high school and uni, and a lot of friendships are borne from there.

Of course that is the case, that is natural. What I am pointing out is that in Melbourne/the rest of Australia, where you went to school and the importance of this is too great and the old school tie stuff is not only justified by some but celebrated when it is nothing worth celebrating (fancy being "proud" for years about something you had no choice over ie. being sent by your parents to a good school. It is quite absurd when you think about it).

I think Old Boys networks are fantastic. Having access to careers nights, seminars etc are invaluable for anybody that wants to progress in their career and learn, as well as build fantastic mentoring relationships with distinguished individuals. If there is an opportunity to do so; of course I'm going to leverage it and give myself every opportunity to make myself better. You may dislike it, but frankly - life is unfair. I'm ambitious and I'm going to do everything I can to make myself better. You may call that pathetic. I'll call it pragmatic.

They can be fantastic for those with access to them. But place too big an emphasis on them (and even celebrate them) and you get a society that gives a leg up to those who already have a head-start anyway. This attitude being approved of, even in a roundabout way by telling everyone "this is how it is" is damaging to the meritocratic principles that should underpin a modern society.

 

[Scotland]

'Who you know not what you know' comes in many forms.

I only interviewed for my current job because a friend from uni happened to already worked there and told me of a potential position. Am I advantaged? If a position comes up I'll see if I have any suitable contacts and try to get them an interview. If I apply for another job and am asked for professional referees I will do what anyone else would do in the same position - provide names of (previously briefed) people who will say good things about me. Etc.

I don't list my (public, FYI) high school because it's not relevant. If someone wants to ask what subjects I did, what my TER was, whether I played cricket for the school or whatever I'll happily tell them - but I graduated 12 years ago so I'm not sure how interesting that info would actually be. Had I gone to Scotch or Christchurch etc. and thought that listing that would benefit my chances of employment I'd list it. I didn't, so I don't.

AFAIC job interviews are mostly horsehit. Interviewers ask questions that HR want them to ask, you give answers HR want to hear.

As far as my resume goes I'm 29 and it's two-three pages long.

For the 'will I bother to read or pass on' yes/no person (I.e. HR):

• Name & contact details
• University details (degrees titles and dates of completion)
• Listing of (post-uni only, who cares if I worked in a supermarket at 16?) jobs (employer, title(s), dates)

For (hopefully) someone who knows what they're actually looking for to read:

• Summary of relevant technical skills & experience

 

[Caesar]

AFAIC job interviews are mostly horsehit. Interviewers ask questions that HR want them to ask, you give answers HR want to hear.

Really? I have always felt they are extremely important. If you have a shortlist of candidates who are all similarly qualified, it comes down to who the potential bosses most want to work with.

I have been the junior interviewer on occasion and the decision has often hinged on the rapport between my boss and the candidate during the interview. Someone who seems switched on, personable, practical, flexible etc. goes a long way. Usually everybody you're interviewing is capable of doing the job, so you're looking for the person who is going to be the best fit.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Put things on your CV that will advantage you for the specific job that you're applying for, but try to keep it to two pages of important content. If that includes your high school then so be it.

Oh, and don't put a stupid photo of yourself on your CV. I received one once from a guy looking similar to this:

Don't call us. We won't call you either.

To be fair, I only added a photo under protest.

 

[J_Moore]

It seems like just Australian culture that most people's strongest friendships are formed in HS, and people tend to remain close with their HS friendship groups for most of their lives.

I'm still good friends with most of my friends from high school (as in, I still value their friendship, keep in touch, and see them when possible. Most have left Sydney, so it's not a weekly occurrence).

I also have friends from uni, work and general life. People come and go, move cities and countries, find new social groups, whatever, but I've never burnt any bridges. I've never really understood people who just drop all their old mates every time they move on to a new stage in life. I value anyone who puts up with me for any length of time.

 

[J_Moore]

Princeton is pretty much the prestigious college in the states. But all of these kids move from their hometowns across the USA to study there, leaving networks from high school behind (and yes I know that college networks can be cliquey as well but that is an issue for another thread). The idea of a high school being a determining factor years after is a depressing phenomenon and reality in Australia that really only suits those who went to the good schools: no one else.

This is partly a function of Australia being so capital-city urbanised, though. Particularly if you're in Sydney or Melbourne, you're already able to access most of the best domestic opportunities in terms of education and work without having to upend your life. The only direction most people from these cities will need to move is overseas.

 

[Gough]

I'm still good friends with most of my friends from high school. I also have friends from uni, work and general life. People come and go, move cities and countries, find new social groups, whatever, but I've never burnt any bridges and value anyone who puts up with me for any length of time. I've never really understood people who just drop all their old mates every time they move on to a new stage in life.

I lost touch with a lot of my school mates because I spent most of my twenties overseas and it was in the days before the internet made it absurdly easy to keep in touch with everybody you have ever met. I'm still close to a couple and I manage to reconnect with a few at my twentieth reunion, but largely most of my logical (as opposed to biological) family I have met after I left school.

 

[FootyJunkie]

This is partly a function of Australia being so capital-city urbanised, though. Particularly if you're in Sydney or Melbourne, you're already able to access most of the best domestic opportunities in terms of education and work without having to upend your life. The only direction most people from these cities will need to move is overseas.

London... to find themselves... in the pub.

 

[J_Moore]

I lost touch with a lot of my school mates because I spent most of my twenties overseas and it was in the days before the internet made it absurdly easy to keep in touch with everybody you have ever met. I'm still close to a couple and I manage to reconnect with a few at my twentieth reunion, but largely most of my logical (as opposed to biological) family I have met after I left school.

The internet rules.

 

[Scotland]

Really? I have always felt they are extremely important. If you have a shortlist of candidates who are all similarly qualified, it comes down to who the potential bosses most want to work with.

Key phrase being 'similarly qualified'. Resumes are all about how you present your employment history. They are no guarantee that you're actually any good at what you do. I reckon plenty of people who make excellent candidates are overlooked because they don't talk the talk in the interview process. Likewise I reckon plenty of people are hired because they talk the talk but if you strip away the bullshit aren't actually any good at the job they were hired to do.

I have been the junior interviewer on occasion and the decision has often hinged on the rapport between my boss and the candidate during the interview. Someone who seems switched on, personable, practical, flexible etc. goes a long way. Usually everybody you're interviewing is capable of doing the job, so you're looking for the person who is going to be the best fit.

A lot obviously depends on the interviewer, but I dispute the bolded. Everybody you're interviewing should fit the advertised criteria. If you want someone with a certain qualification and x or more years experience, you'll get them. It's pretty hard to bluff your way through that part. Whether or not they're actually any good is another matter.

I've worked with plenty of people who have excellent CVs and who know how to schmooze (sp?) that I don't rate in the slightest. I've also worked with people who are brilliant that I reckon would not interview well.

 

[nicky]

Key phrase being 'similarly qualified'. Resumes are all about how you present your employment history. They are no guarantee that you're actually any good at what you do. I reckon plenty of people who make excellent candidates are overlooked because they don't talk the talk in the interview process. Likewise I reckon plenty of people are hired because they talk the talk but if you strip away the bullshit aren't actually any good at the job they were hired to do.
.

This is so so true.

I work with someone who talks the talk but after working with him closely for a while i realised that there wasn't any substance to what he was saying, infact, he had no idea what he was talking about. But, for a very long time he fooled many people, especially very senior people.

He talks the talks so well that if you don't poke and nudge around you could assume that he's speaking at a level you're not euqipped to understand. So you may be inclined to keep quiet until you catch on as a tactical response to not understanding something you believe you should.

Finally everyone can see this guy is full of shit... but he's held the senior position he's in for six years. It's phenomenal that that is possible.

He'll get another job just on his ability to talk so much shit. However i wouldn't hire him because from my experience, high value people explain things in a non intimidating, easy to understand way. Those people are in the minority though. Most people over complicate things.

 

[Nothing]

On the photo on CV thing, if you have a particularly ethnic sounding name and don't necessarily fit that particular ethnic group then a photo can assist in overcoming a number of stereotypes and bigoted views that people hold. There has been a study in the US on this and equally qualified candidates where one has a particularly black sounding name (ie: DeSean Jacquizz Smith) are significantly less likely to be offerred an interview.

 

[Scotland]

That's covered in the film version of Freakonomics by Morgan Spurlock of Super Size Me fame.

I think the US (*parts of) has come a long in terms of black vs white but name prejudice is huge. If your name is D'Shawn then chances are you're black and whoever is reading your resume will assume you're black. The problem isn't the person reading the resume going 'black? next!', it's the person reading it going 'D'Shawn?' and picturing someone that looks like Xzibit who is going to rock up to the interview in pants 4 sizes too big and an NBA singlet speaking in African-American slang then passing based on their perception.

 

[The_Reaper]

That's covered in the film version of Freakonomics by Morgan Spurlock of Super Size Me fame.

I think the US (*parts of) has come a long in terms of black vs white but name prejudice is huge. If your name is D'Shawn then chances are you're black and whoever is reading your resume will assume you're black. The problem isn't the person reading the resume going 'black? next!', it's the person reading it going 'D'Shawn?' and picturing someone that looks like Xzibit who is going to rock up to the interview in pants 4 sizes too big and an NBA singlet speaking in African-American slang then passing based on their perception.

We'll have the same win Australia with bogan names. For a reputable company Jason would have an advantage over Jayson for a white collar job.

Likewise children should never be given nicknames as their first name. You might be called Harry or Andy but it's much better to be put down Harrison or Andrew as your name on your resume.