Scape Goat Dusty's dad refused entry to Bali due to Australian Government interferance

[Sir_Loin]

For the record, I'm a swinging voter. I have little but contempt for most politicians and most political parties.
Given a choice ... and that was not forthcoming at the last election in my electorate .... I would have voted the Xenophon mob (make your judgments as you will).
As you have asked, I believe Turnbull (who I would vote for over Shorten) has been a major disappointment (of Ben Lennon proportions if you will). Shorten, well he ain't the answer and would be considerably less trustworthy and diabolical. For all his faults, of which he had some, and all the grief the guy cops, we have not had a good leader since Howard, whose years in office were generally good for Australians.
Rudd, Gillard, Abbott .... mate equivalent to trying to win an AFL premiership with a centre line of Jarad Oakley Nichols, Adam Thomson and Robert Hicks .... you don't get the job done. But I've voted Liberal, National, Labor, independent ... never Greens (and never will), so pretty foolish and pointless pulling the 'party-line' nonsense on me.
I don't care who is in charge, Martin is out and we're better for it. But it;s intriguing that you pulled the 'party line' trick as it's endemic to Big Footy. There is a large block posters on here who form their views solely on what is best for Richmond FC, its supporters, players and families. Convince me that most of you calling for S. Martin to be reinstated into Australia or asserting the govt. is acting corruptly give two hoots about any other former resident, supposedly wrongly, tossed out of Australia. And those people don't. It's strictly because he is the father of a Richmond footballer. If it was your neighbour you wouldn't raise an eyelid.

Pathetic argument. Because it’s Dustin Martins father we can’t talk about it. It’s the best example to discuss given its public nature. Anyone who brings up the Richmond connection is just deflecting.

 

[Grrr]

For the record, I'm a swinging voter. I have little but contempt for most politicians and most political parties.
Given a choice ... and that was not forthcoming at the last election in my electorate .... I would have voted the Xenophon mob (make your judgments as you will).
As you have asked, I believe Turnbull (who I would vote for over Shorten) has been a major disappointment (of Ben Lennon proportions if you will). Shorten, well he ain't the answer and would be considerably less trustworthy and diabolical. For all his faults, of which he had some, and all the grief the guy cops, we have not had a good leader since Howard, whose years in office were generally good for Australians.
Rudd, Gillard, Abbott .... mate equivalent to trying to win an AFL premiership with a centre line of Jarad Oakley Nichols, Adam Thomson and Robert Hicks .... you don't get the job done. But I've voted Liberal, National, Labor, independent ... never Greens (and never will), so pretty foolish and pointless pulling the 'party-line' nonsense on me.
I don't care who is in charge, Martin is out and we're better for it. But it;s intriguing that you pulled the 'party line' trick as it's endemic to Big Footy. There is a large block posters on here who form their views solely on what is best for Richmond FC, its supporters, players and families. Convince me that most of you calling for S. Martin to be reinstated into Australia or asserting the govt. is acting corruptly give two hoots about any other former resident, supposedly wrongly, tossed out of Australia. And those people don't. It's strictly because he is the father of a Richmond footballer. If it was your neighbour you wouldn't raise an eyelid.

I have repeatedly made reference to people being deported to other countries like Sweden, Iran, Pakistan etc. I have followed articles where these people have been killed, jailed and threatened on their arrival 'home'. I have first hand knowledge of how the laws operate in many of these countries, and have repeatedly said I don't care about Dusty's dad.
Our political opinions may be poles apart, (Howard has so much to answer for in my opinion), but that is neither here nor there, but I guess on BF there are a host of things to rant about, and this is one I feel strongly about. Kudos for the footy analogy, they were't bad.

 

[Goldust]

I have repeatedly made reference to people being deported to other countries like Sweden, Iran, Pakistan etc. I have followed articles where these people have been killed, jailed and threatened on their arrival 'home'. I have first hand knowledge of how the laws operate in many of these countries, and have repeatedly said I don't care about Dusty's dad.
Our political opinions may be poles apart, (Howard has so much to answer for in my opinion), but that is neither here nor there, but I guess on BF there are a host of things to rant about, and this is one I feel strongly about. Kudos for the footy analogy, they were't bad.

And trust me, once your allegiance to a political party (which is much like a football team allegiance) goes, you see things way more clearly.
While I support Richmond with a passion it's why I don't just follow the crowd and think I have to post 40 positives a day on Richmond. If we are good I'll acknowledge it, if we are bad I'll acknowledge it.
Politics and parties have much to answer for ... of all persuasions.

 

[mickctiger]

Not sure what the technicality was that Martin was able to get his deportation decision overturned..

The Technicality was that Dutton was operating outside of the law.
"Ministerial discretion" means jack when it is in breach of the constitution.

 

[Grrr]

And trust me, once your allegiance to a political party (which is much like a football team allegiance) goes, you see things way more clearly.
While I support Richmond with a passion it's why I don't just follow the crowd and think I have to post 40 positives a day on Richmond. If we are good I'll acknowledge it, if we are bad I'll acknowledge it.
Politics and parties have much to answer for ... of all persuasions.

I have no political allegiance, but I have no time for the right of politics, and consider Labor almost as bad, (spineless). That's about it. I don't mind your considered negative posting. You make fair points... sometimes.

 

[Sir_Loin]

The Technicality was that Dutton was operating outside of the law.
"Ministerial discretion" means jack when it is in breach of the constitution.

But it wasn’t overturned as a “breach of the constitution”.

 

[KiwiTiger]

Just out of interest, with so many here forming a view on Shane’s character, who on the thread has actually met him?

Haere Ra

 

[cairo tiger]

It's not whose met him but what he has done- and what in effect responsibility he has for the future . Just because his sperm produced dusty does not exonerate him from what he has done. Personally I hope they get reunited in oz - because that will be better for dusty. A better dusty means a better Richmond. And don't get me started about some kiwis who have milked the system over the years not your good self kiwi. May peace be with u

 

[KiwiTiger]

It's not whose met him but what he has done- and what in effect responsibility he has for the future . Just because his sperm produced dusty does not exonerate him from what he has done. Personally I hope they get reunited in oz - because that will be better for dusty. A better dusty means a better Richmond. And don't get me started about some kiwis who have milked the system over the years not your good self kiwi. May peace be with u

Indeed. And same to you.

I'm just intrigued as to how you judge character if you've never met the man for a start. It's like judging every poster here if you've never met them.

So then, if you haven't, what does it boil down to? Based on here it's either a club allegiance or a government view, and either way requires investment in secondary parties from what you know personally.

Haere Ra

 

[Helen Wheels]

Just out of interest, with so many here forming a view on Shane’s character, who on the thread has actually met him?

Haere Ra

Probably nobody except you.

 

[mickctiger]

And are those backpackers voting in elections? Don't equate lack of some rights with loss of all rights, that's just being disingenuous and no one is saying foreigners have no rights. Just that they don't have the same rights as citizens.

16 year olds are not entitled to vote, so, under your logic they would have less rights than the rest of us have. That sort of logic is completely absurd. Under law, foreigners have exactly the same rights as citizens. As for the argument that this deportation would never have happened if Martin Snr took out citizenship, under laws put in place by the coalition, Dutton can revoke the citizenship of anyone he sees fit. One would have to be extremely naïve if they thought Dutton would never try such a trick.

Here's a link you might like:
https://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage...1/26/7-advantages-becoming-australian-citizen

Note the last paragraph, sums the whole thing up nicely.

You see, the funny thing is that whilst you can get your information from media organisations, I prefer to follow the example of the courts. Now, for good or bad, the High Court (in particular , seems to consistently find against the Government in these sort of cases. You reckon that they might
be on to something here ?

As for your comment about Martin being allowed entry to Indonesia beforehand, so what? Notwithstanding that circumstances (not to mention policy) change over time, don't you think it's a good thing if countries alert each other of suspicious travellers? Interpol ring a bell? In any case, Indonesia could always have told us thanks but ggf.

It appears from this comment that you have completely missed just what happened here. Dutton requested that Indonesia refuse entry to Martin Snr days after the High Court found that Martins deportation was unlawful. That Dutton abused his powers as Minister for immigration in using his "power of discretion".
In the very least, that sounds petty and vindictive, and sails very close to conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
It's abundantly clear that Dutton has zero regard for the separation of powers in Australia, and is quite prepared to act like a petty juvenile in breaking the law when the courts find against him.

 

[mickctiger]

Not sure what the technicality was that Martin was able to get his deportation decision overturned. By the sounds of it, it was a procedural mistake rather than the power Dutton has to make the decision he did..

Considering that it was the High Court, I think you will find that their decision had something to do with the constitution.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Considering that it was the High Court, I think you will find that their decision had something to do with the constitution.

Wasn’t it federal court?

 

[Komrade_Tiger]

Wasn’t it federal court?

High Court has already made a ruling that is in favour of Shane but Shane didn't undertake it in of himself, he is now going to the Federal Court or is intending to i believe.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...on-case-in-federal-court-20171204-gzyqvl.html

Dutton pushed through an amendment to section 503A of the Migration Act to stop Shane Martin re-entering Australia after the High Court ruled that Dutton had been wrong to kick out two men accused of being Rebels bikies, AJ Graham and Mehaka Lee Te Puia.

Although this interestingly seems to go contrary to the bullshit line Dutton peddles too......

Dutton's office said Shane Martin's visa was cancelled for the safety of the Australian community because of his criminal record and association with outlaw motorcycle gangs.

* can't even keep his office from issuing contradictory statements . That quote is my cynical basis of it being a political point scoring exercise and not y'know actually doing anything meaningful to keep Australia safe, that's just too difficult isn't it, or maybe the oft dubious background of Dutton would come out and we shant have that now can we

 

[Sir_Loin]

High Court has already made a ruling that is in favour of Shane but Shane didn't undertake it in of himself, he is now going to the Federal Court or is intending to i believe.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...on-case-in-federal-court-20171204-gzyqvl.html


Although this interestingly seems to go contrary to the bullshit line Dutton peddles too......


****** can't even keep his office from issuing contradictory statements . That quote is my cynical basis of it being a political point scoring exercise and not y'know actually doing anything meaningful to keep Australia safe, that's just too difficult isn't it, or maybe the oft dubious background of Dutton would come out and we shant have that now can we

The high court ruling was not in relation to Shane Martin but two others who challenged the government and won. This resulted in Dutton rushing through changes to the act that means his decision to revoke visa’s can no longer be challenged. Martin’s recent court win challenging his deportation order was in the Federal Court where immigration matters are heard.

 

[Livonski]

Just out of interest, with so many here forming a view on Shane’s character, who on the thread has actually met him?

Haere Ra

Very briefly, and nowhere near long enough to make any sort of character judgement.

My view is generic, based on the premise that some innocents may get caught in the crack down on bikie gangs. It’s the crackdown I’m in favour of, not whether Shane is innocent or guilty.

 

[Goldust]

Very briefly, and nowhere near long enough to make any sort of character judgement.

My view is generic, based on the premise that some innocents may get caught in the crack down on bikie gangs. It’s the crackdown I’m in favour of, not whether Shane is innocent or guilty.

What Livonski said. Met him once and now plenty of people in Castlemaine who will vouch for him as a person.
But that in no way exonerates him from what the govt. believes are grounds for him to be sent packing.
I'll say this. Plenty of people have vouched for the integrity of the Moran clan ... yes they were great people. And Carl Williams' kids on a recnt doco insisted their father was a loving and generous one and a ll good all-round bloke. And those things he might have been ... a good fatger and generous to mates and acquaintances. His other actions tell a different tale and I'm happy for the police and govt. to do their job.
I add, I was pals with a guy who embezzled $20-odd million. Ripping bloke to all who knew him ...... except those he stole from and to those who suffered from his deception. Being a nice guy proves only so much!

 

[Goldust]

It's not whose met him but what he has done- and what in effect responsibility he has for the future . Just because his sperm produced dusty does not exonerate him from what he has done. Personally I hope they get reunited in oz - because that will be better for dusty. A better dusty means a better Richmond. And don't get me started about some kiwis who have milked the system over the years not your good self kiwi. May peace be with u

See your point.
Yet contrary to the nonsense that was dribbled on here by ceretain parties about Dusty's life crumbling down when his old man was sent packing, he had the best year of his football career and has a Brownlow and premiership medallion to say so.

 

[cairo tiger]

Indeed. And same to you.

I'm just intrigued as to how you judge character if you've never met the man for a start. It's like judging every poster here if you've never met them.

So then, if you haven't, what does it boil down to? Based on here it's either a club allegiance or a government view, and either way requires investment in secondary parties from what you know personally.

Haere Ra

I usually judge character the moment I meet someone- I am pretty perceptive like that - but character is one thing breaking the law and being associated with a gang that does drug deals and wrecks people's lives is another thing.you may be perceived as someone who is a good bloke to have a chat to- but they may be carrying a dark past. You obviously have met Shane and had a nice chat or 2. Great. Etc.

 

[Goldust]

I usually judge character the moment I meet someone- I am pretty perceptive like that - but character is one thing breaking the law and being associated with a gang that does drug deals and wrecks people's lives is another thing.you may be perceived as someone who is a good bloke to have a chat to- but they may be carrying a dark past. You obviously have met Shane and had a nice chat or 2. Great. Etc.

Yes, like my ex-neighbour of 18 months. Charming bloke and a wonderful neighbour. Helped me out with a few car problems and mantenance issues around the house. Great bloke. He's no longer around as he's doing a stretch for selling drugs and assault. But he was a good bloke and a great neighbour and I'll vouch for that!

 

[Majunga]

And trust me, once your allegiance to a political party (which is much like a football team allegiance) goes, you see things way more clearly.
While I support Richmond with a passion it's why I don't just follow the crowd and think I have to post 40 positives a day on Richmond. If we are good I'll acknowledge it, if we are bad I'll acknowledge it.
Politics and parties have much to answer for ... of all persuasions.

Mainstream media and lack of a platform for credible, independent journalism are the biggest problems in my eyes.
More damaging long term than a bad Government is the constant and calculated watering down of intelligent, independent and credible (supported by deep thorough research and facts) media establishments & journalism.

People are growing up getting their facts from places like the The Project, 3 aw shock jocks, rubbish current affair shows and the nightly news for god sake.
This dribble is chopped, edited and manipulated for the purposes of dramatisation and enterainment while having a ''dumbing down effect'' that crosses decades and generations, the impact of which is immense.

A very interesting watch was the Waleed Aly address to the national press club. (about a year ago i think)
His speech was a good insight into the current state of modern journalism in this country as a man currently
involved in it and somebody who has experienced both sides by going from the ABC to the host of The Project.

 

[Majunga]

I usually judge character the moment I meet someone- I am pretty perceptive like that - but character is one thing breaking the law and being associated with a gang that does drug deals and wrecks people's lives is another thing.you may be perceived as someone who is a good bloke to have a chat to- but they may be carrying a dark past. You obviously have met Shane and had a nice chat or 2. Great. Etc.

Everyone has the right to move on from a ''dark past'' as you put it. Labeling people and continuing to punish them (outside of what the law has deemed fit) through means of ostracising is counter productive.
Perhaps getting to know people a least a little bit before judging them is a sensible idea?
Is it at all possible that any of your snappy, pre judgments have ever turned out to be wrong?

I should probably add because of my opinions and arguments in favour of changing the way we look and deal with subjects like reform that i personally do not have a dark past and have been in no trouble since i was a kid
So my position is not compromised by self benefit.

 

[Helen Wheels]

For all his faults, of which he had some, and all the grief the guy cops, we have not had a good leader since Howard, whose years in office were generally good for Australians.

Thank you for revealing your true political stance ... ultra-right conservative.

 

[blackcat]

That is not the full story I’m talking about. We don’t know why he’s finding it so difficult but you can bet it has nothing to do with being Dustin Martins Dad!

However we do know some overarching trends in reactionary nationalist politics and whatever the individual's circumstances* they get caught in the swarm.

*no measure of respective guilt/innocence. Guilty person/ or contravention of residency laws/ -may be rightfully deported

 

[blackcat]

A biker stole his girlfriend

Good point, ex Brisbane cop