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puffpuffgivemo said:
Great post and one with some facts for once.

Based on my calculations following last weekend's games the rumoured top spending sides had the following juniors playing:

Greenvale - 13
Strathmore - 10
Abers - 7
Keilor - 5
Pascoe Vale - 4
Avondale - 3

When you add in players who've been at clubs for three years or more it makes up in excess of 60% of the team from GV, SM and Abers.
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Hey Puff,
I haven't had a chance to go over your facts but assuming your right I think this only goes to show a couple of things:
1- the good work done by 3 (or 4) clubs to have strong junior programs and the good fortune of having players return and/or stay around for a number of years.
2- the points system will benefit these 3 clubs unless there is something in place to protect clubs with new recruits at other clubs otherwise it will create an uneven competition in which 2 or 3 sides will dominate for at least the next 5 years.. This will surely not be good.

Let me say one other thing which assists a good junior program is when you have ex AFL players as they can educate and teach the juniors things they learned. I'm sure 18s or even some 16s training with these guys greatly helps bring on the juniors at clubs. Abers & Strathmore ( and maybe Greenvale) have recruited plenty over the last 5 or so years, so this should be taken into consideration when we talk junior development programs.,

It would be interesting to see the study of the current points system in the EDFL 2015 and what max points the EDFL clubs will be allowed.

I'm not sure of a "fair" system without really reviewing it closely but It does say that clubs that have been up near the top for a number of years will have less points than clubs at the bottom end. Therefore it might be that Abers, Strathmore, Greenvale will have less points than some other clubs.. Is this fair?? No it's not to these clubs "but" it might be the only way to even out the comp.. But then where do Marby sit as they have won multiple premierships in past years so it will be interesting however they are developing youth so they probably would fall under the points anyway..
This system would allow the Paccos and Avondale's, and probably Keilor to keep players and stay competitive for the initial years, and also not hinder the other sides at the bottom end from recruiting big names..

Great discussion though and keeping it respectful..
 
Scoopar said:
Not entirely true. The protein powders and dietary supplements would not be considered specific enough to be deductible. And in respect to other deductions such as gym fees, football boots, mouthguard, - you still need to justify the claim with receipts. Motor vehicle expenses can only be claimed for work related travel and that also could be scrutinised so you would need documentation to justify it such as a log book.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/...ional-footballers---general-tax-guide/?page=4

A player earing $1000 per game and therefore about $18,000 or more per year would probably attract the scrutiny of the ATO, if alerted to it. A failure to declare that sort of income could attract an audit. Only needs a disgruntled committee member or player to 'anonymously' dob in someone before you had an ATO auditor requesting an interview.

AS for those earning more than that (say $1500 per game or maybe $25,000 for the year...) - it's only a matter of time before you will get audited. Not worth taking the risk in my book.
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No worries Joe hockey you wouldn't take $1500 a game instead you would tell the club you only wanted $500 so you didn't get audited
 
Scoopar said:
Not entirely true. The protein powders and dietary supplements would not be considered specific enough to be deductible. And in respect to other deductions such as gym fees, football boots, mouthguard, - you still need to justify the claim with receipts. Motor vehicle expenses can only be claimed for work related travel and that also could be scrutinised so you would need documentation to justify it such as a log book.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/...ional-footballers---general-tax-guide/?page=4

A player earing $1000 per game and therefore about $18,000 or more per year would probably attract the scrutiny of the ATO, if alerted to it. A failure to declare that sort of income could attract an audit. Only needs a disgruntled committee member or player to 'anonymously' dob in someone before you had an ATO auditor requesting an interview.

AS for those earning more than that (say $1500 per game or maybe $25,000 for the year...) - it's only a matter of time before you will get audited. Not worth taking the risk in my book.
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Thanks Scoopar. You are spot on in my opinion. I guess if any player or club want to test the water they can always apply for a private tax ruling, I think it could have already been done for a sportsperson at lower levels.
 

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Scoopar said:
Not entirely true. The protein powders and dietary supplements would not be considered specific enough to be deductible. And in respect to other deductions such as gym fees, football boots, mouthguard, - you still need to justify the claim with receipts. Motor vehicle expenses can only be claimed for work related travel and that also could be scrutinised so you would need documentation to justify it such as a log book.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/...ional-footballers---general-tax-guide/?page=4

A player earing $1000 per game and therefore about $18,000 or more per year would probably attract the scrutiny of the ATO, if alerted to it. A failure to declare that sort of income could attract an audit. Only needs a disgruntled committee member or player to 'anonymously' dob in someone before you had an ATO auditor requesting an interview.

AS for those earning more than that (say $1500 per game or maybe $25,000 for the year...) - it's only a matter of time before you will get audited. Not worth taking the risk in my book.
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The ATO is already well aware of the current situation.
While exact figures are only known to a select few at any given club, it isn't exactly a secret that blokes are earning decent coin across both country and city leagues and have been doing so for years.
 
Joey Montoro said:
Thanks Scoopar. You are spot on in my opinion. I guess if any player or club want to test the water they can always apply for a private tax ruling, I think it could have already been done for a sportsperson at lower levels.
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And if a player was on say $1000 cash in hand per game and had a main job (the football would be considered a second job and therefore should attract a higher tax rate) and got dobbed in, don't under-estimate the capacity for an ATO auditor to check bank accounts, spending patterns in terms of assets & accommodation and day to day living expenses to estimate what the player might be earning. Player would get a little nervous.....Particularly if the player hasn't lodged a tax return for a few years or was on the dole.
 
My misses makes and sells candles as a side thing. She looked into whether she would have to declare her earnings with the ATO, and it was fine as it was under a certain amount (13k from memory but could be a bit more). In that instance it's considered a hobby. Anything over that amount is then considered part of earnings and therefore should be declared.
 
AuckMel said:
What would happen to someone who played 3 years at Pascoe Vale until U12, then played 4 years at Marby until U16, but then went and played at Greenvale where they now live? Which junior club would claim him and what if that kid didn't want to play for that club?
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The measure in the discussion paper is more than 40 games up to and including U17. If satisfied, would be valued at 1 point If he played seniors at the club he played > 40 games as a junior.
 
Hard Ball Get said:
My misses makes and sells candles as a side thing. She looked into whether she would have to declare her earnings with the ATO, and it was fine as it was under a certain amount (13k from memory but could be a bit more). In that instance it's considered a hobby. Anything over that amount is then considered part of earnings and therefore should be declared.
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It is $3k. Not $13k or more.
 

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Scoopar said:
And if a player was on say $1000 cash in hand per game and had a main job (the football would be considered a second job and therefore should attract a higher tax rate) and got dobbed in, don't under-estimate the capacity for an ATO auditor to check bank accounts, spending patterns in terms of assets & accommodation and day to day living expenses to estimate what the player might be earning. Player would get a little nervous.....Particularly if the player hasn't lodged a tax return for a few years or was on the dole.
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Seriously if the ATO go after footballers or football clubs it just goes to show the ATO have no idea and hitting the small people..
VFL players get paid by cheque and it's usually minus tax..

A fare points system is reasonable as long as the points allocated to clubs are fair. A salary cap just won't work so who cares..
 
Northern Saints V Avondale Heights
Almost pulled off the upset of the season last week NS where as Avondale slumped further to a mediocre Marby Park side. Looks like Avondale have fallen further that what we original thought. They should still have the class to win comfortably Avondale by 56.

Airport West V Marby Park.
Marby Park should win this easy if they bring what they brought for quarter time onwards last week. Expect quality that Marby do possess to be too strong. Marby by 37

Keilor V Aberfeldie
After the statement Abers made last week I can only think they will go to Keilor and win comfortably. Keilor are a talented group but I just can't see them challenging this Aberfeldie group. Abers by 56 points.

Strathmore V Greenvale.
Many people down at Strathmore must be taking a good hard look because they are struggling. Could be 4-4 by the end of this round 1 game clear of Avondale heights who we all think are finished if results go the right way. Greenvale are just that good. Such an all rounded group, I believe they possess to many stars for Strathmore in this one. Greenvale by 23 points.

Pascoe Vale V West Coburg.
You'd think it's inevitable that Pascoe vale bounce back. They just had a bad week and abers showed why they are the best group. pascoe vale have to many guns and wil win easily. There list is made to bully teams on the scoreboard and they will do it this week. Pascoe vale by 87
 
Canplaythisguy said:
Northern Saints V Avondale Heights
Almost pulled off the upset of the season last week NS where as Avondale slumped further to a mediocre Marby Park side. Looks like Avondale have fallen further that what we original thought. They should still have the class to win comfortably Avondale by 56.

Airport West V Marby Park.
Marby Park should win this easy if they bring what they brought for quarter time onwards last week. Expect quality that Marby do possess to be too strong. Marby by 37

Keilor V Aberfeldie
After the statement Abers made last week I can only think they will go to Keilor and win comfortably. Keilor are a talented group but I just can't see them challenging this Aberfeldie group. Abers by 56 points.

Strathmore V Greenvale.
Many people down at Strathmore must be taking a good hard look because they are struggling. Could be 4-4 by the end of this round 1 game clear of Avondale heights who we all think are finished if results go the right way. Greenvale are just that good. Such an all rounded group, I believe they possess to many stars for Strathmore in this one. Greenvale by 23 points.

Pascoe Vale V West Coburg.
You'd think it's inevitable that Pascoe vale bounce back. They just had a bad week and abers showed why they are the best group. pascoe vale have to many guns and wil win easily. There list is made to bully teams on the scoreboard and they will do it this week. Pascoe vale by 87
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Like your work again "Canplay", but think the Keilor v Abers will be closer. Mick will shut the game down and make it a low scoring affair as % will be important come end of year battle for 4th spot.. Also there is rain predicted so the ground will be muddy in the middle which should suit Keilor..
I can't see Abers losing after watching them last week, but maybe 22pts the margin..

Cheers
 
Turbos mail said:
Like your work again "Canplay", but think the Keilor v Abers will be closer. Mick will shut the game down and make it a low scoring affair as % will be important come end of year battle for 4th spot.. Also there is rain predicted so the ground will be muddy in the middle which should suit Keilor..
I can't see Abers losing after watching them last week, but maybe 22pts the margin..

Cheers
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If it's raining like you say it might be closer
 

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Turbos mail said:
Like your work again "Canplay", but think the Keilor v Abers will be closer. Mick will shut the game down and make it a low scoring affair as % will be important come end of year battle for 4th spot.. Also there is rain predicted so the ground will be muddy in the middle which should suit Keilor..
I can't see Abers losing after watching them last week, but maybe 22pts the margin..

Cheers
Click to expand...
Why would mud suit Keilor when abers have the Bigger bodies & in the middle they have Brock & Cubillo which the rain should suit them
 

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