News EFC asks AFL and ASADA for probe into own training regime

[The Speaker]

"UNQUESTIONABLY, James Hird would have asked himself in recent days whether he should resign as Essendon coach.

The answer is no. Resign for what?

That Hird even contemplated the question tells us the weight of responsibility he feels.

No one who knows this iconic Essendon figure, a champion player and budding coach, would believe Hird knowingly was involved in the use of performance-enhancing drugs"
What the hell is Robbo on? How the **** does he know what Hirdy's contemplated?

This is, another, work of, immense quality, from, Robbo. A, deep, man.

 

[theboxmike]

Sports scientist at centre of Essendon drugs probe, Stephen Dank, claims jabs were clean

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...-jabs-were-clean/story-e6frepf6-1226572105326



http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...-jabs-were-clean/story-e6frepf6-1226572105326

Suspicion grows about other players

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/suspicion-grows-about-other-players-20130206-2dywz.html


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/suspicion-grows-about-other-players-20130206-2dywz.html

So this is a good thing yeah that he's claiming they were "clean"?

Guess it's weather he's telling the truth.

 

[eth-dog]

So maybe we're not guilty?

 

[Syphoncom]

Surely the consent form protects the players in the event that they were misled.

You would like to think so wouldn't you? The only problem with that is it becomes a loophole; if players were allowed to sign forms saying they are only accepting drugs that aren't prohibited (duh - you're not going to sign it if it says it is) there would be a complete lack of responsibility and onus on the player. You'd play dumb and you're free.

And the other poster is exactly right - do we expect these players to test the substances themselves? If it truly wasn't intentional, it's a very sad thing for the players at the club because you would have so much faith in those you surround yourself with at the club. If you can't trust the doctors and medicos (I assume who would have to know about this), who can you trust?

It seems the only way you can legitimately take performance-enhancing drugs (that aren't prohibited/are legal) is have them approved by an AFL/ASADA/WADA/whoever member prior to having them administered. And of course if the doctor or whoever administers the shot gives you something else, surely that's ground for legal action and then not the fault of the players. Such a shame it would have to come to that though, if that really is the case.

 

[gO_bOmBeRz]

I swear I'm just hoping by some miracle we escape this with absolutely nothing, because the way it's looking so far is that we either:

A) Get busted, shit hits the fan and the club could potentially fold for 2 years or whatever ASADA/AFL rule.
Or
B) It turns out we were CLOSE to breaking rules, but didn't actually cross any lines.
AFL acknowledge that we made the first move to approach them, sacked Dank, went about everything the right way and get away with everything, or potentially a fine.

I find it hard to think of a situation where we end up in the middle of the extremes. I could be very wrong, my mind is all over the place. Can't believe this is happening.

Edit: Oh yeah and I forgot to add, I hope Riemers doesn't get drafted by any club in the AFL, but hopefully in some league like the VFL.
At that point, we'll make Nathan Lovett Murray and Mcveigh join the same league..

 

[Shane Mead]

Seems like the criminal investigation is why the club went to the AFL and WADA in the first place. If the players signed consent forms that said drug a, b and c were legal and that is all the players took, nothing will happen. Now is some players took supplements that were not approved by this consent form, there is a serious issue.

Either way the details are very sketchy, I've read 5 or 6 different drugs/supplements been thrown around. I don't think we will figure out what exactly has happened until the investigation by WADA is completed because the media is just after the headlines right now and we know the media doesn't work on the ground of integrity.

 

[Hank93]

By my understanding of the situation, Robinson, Dank and Charter would all be sanctioned (if guilty of course) under rule 8 of ASADA''s code.




Not sure if Essendon the club, or the players would be implicated under rule 7, which is regarding trafficking of illegal substances, or just Charter and Dank?



The rest of the rules can be found here. http://www.asada.gov.au/rules_and_violations/8_rule_violations.html

 

[Burzum]

A CONVICTED drug trafficker who calls himself Dr Ageless supplied the Essendon Football Club's sacked sports scientist with potentially illegal supplements. Biochemist Shane Charter is alleged to have provided Stephen Dank - a central figure in the scandal - with supplements sourced from Asia. It is understood Mr Dank worked closely with Mr Charter to provide players with supplements, which are believed to have cost as much as $30,000. Mr Dank is believed to have been sacked after the club discovered unauthorised expenditure.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/club-link-to-drug-dealer-20130206-2dz05.html#ixzz2K7qHgvlp

 

[EVERLAST]

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that if any party is found guilty whilst an employee at EFC, Hirdy being Hirdy will offer his resignation seeing he has final sign off over the program.

Throughout the 2012 season as the players were going down on a weekly basis with soft tissue injuries, he accepted full responsibility of the carnage and promised a full investigation into the program.

I hope I'm wrong here but we all know how selfless Hirdy is and he could end up a casualty after all this.

His coaching resume will forever be tainted regardless of the outcome I fear.

 

[Phone]

this is all part of sheedy's masterplan

 

[Phone]

gws knocked back this dank guy btw

 

[Shane Mead]

No, no, no. The issue would be if players used drugs that were not part of the WADA consent form. In other words, if players used drugs that was not signed off by Hird. Hird won't be resigning, people are still make statements based off of nothing thus far.

 

[EVERLAST]

ASADA don't make provisions for players 'misled' by 'trusted' medicos.

If found guilty, they're at the mercy of the authorities regardless of who signed what and what it was for...

 

[Jab]

I had a close look at the second pick that hdecure posted, and I'm pretty sure that I can spot drugs. Ms Corby would be proud.

If Dank's name was tarnished in the sporting community you would think that the club would have looked into him very early on. I wonder who would be responsible for internal reviews like that, if it did have to happen?

 

[Quinz]

And while some of the articles i've read today about Dank's contact with doctors are completely negative.

The age gives a totally different aspect to those:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/essend...bout-hormones-doctor-says-20130206-2dyet.html

You'd think there must be some kind of therapeutic allowance for low HGH or testosterone levels in the AFL? Other sports allow TRT in certain cases (although it's pretty much always controversial). Maybe the levels weren't low enough to warrant it.

Alastair Lynch used to take something for his CFS, some kind of steroid.

I'm hoping for a good outcome with this, the sport would really suffer if things go the way some people are speculating they will. Ideally a few cages will be rattled and clubs will move back from that blurry line a little bit.

 

[Jab]

You'd think there must be some kind of therapeutic allowance for low HGH or testosterone levels in the AFL? Other sports allow TRT in certain cases (although it's pretty much always controversial). Maybe the levels weren't low enough to warrant it.

Alastair Lynch used to take something for his CFS, some kind of steroid.

I'm hoping for a good outcome with this, the sport would really suffer if things go the way some people are speculating they will. Ideally a few cages will be rattled and clubs will move back from that blurry line a little bit.

In combat sports (MMA, UFC, Boxing etc) in the US, most commissions allow a 4:1 ratio of TRT, and you can get allowances for higher ratios. All the fighters know that it's just used as a competitive edge and an exploitation of the rules. If you want to train MMA and be locked in the cage to fight another man, you shouldn't need a licence to have 4 times the amount of testosterone in your body.

 

[Nifft]

What if the other players are in the same boat as McVeigh, and they're 100% sure any injections they were given were vitamin B or C? If it turns out that Dank purchased some banned substances, and ASADA thinks it's possible they may have been used for some of our players, unless there was detailed records kept of what was injected into who, how would they determine which players had been given dodgy injections?

You can't go banning players based on whether they may have had a dodgy injection or not.

 

[yaco55]

I was reffering to players in that. At which case the discretion is left with WADA/ASADA.



They have very, very little flexibility in their enforcement.

WADA/ASADA couldn't give a shit what damage it could do to the AFL/EFC, they will ban any player and official found to be involved in the administering of illicit substances.

I am certain that there are specific provisions within the WADA agreement that give flexibility. And my understanding is that penalties are not prescriptive.

 

[The Prosecutor]

I am certain that there are specific provisions within the WADA agreement that give flexibility. And my understanding is that penalties are not prescriptive.

95% of the time, they are.

In other case, the maximum amount of leniency I've seen is 1 year.

They won't push this under the carpet. Ignorance is most certainly not bliss in this instance.

 

[yaco55]

95% of the time, they are.

In other case, the maximum amount of leniency I've seen is 1 year.

They won't push this under the carpet. Ignorance is most certainly not bliss in this instance.

Which is not a bad outcome if guilty - Anyway doubt this issue will be resolved until 2014.

 

[yaco55]

Think it's important that we pay attention to Bruno's well crafted post from yesterday. Bruno is spot on with his assessment - I will add that the club wanted to take short cuts to get players fitter/stronger - Fit a 2 year program into 1 year - which then means that you push boundaries. It's bad enough that this mis-informed policy destroyed our 2012 season but for it to have further repercussions in the future is shattering.

Lets go back to having a 100% professional organisation from top to bottom - And one who wants to work hard to achieve premiership success, instead of being lazy and taking short cuts.

 

[Bombers36]

Can someone please clarify for me if this is correct?;-

• Players can knowingly take illegal or illicit 'recreational' drugs, and lots do, but there's a 'three strikes' policy and some loopholes with the whole thing which protects them. Without naming names we all know of some of the biggest names in the game, both past and present who have used illicit drugs whilst playing and admit to this after their careers are over

• Players can unknowingly be administered 'supplements' (which may or may not be illegal) prescribed by club medicos under club supervision but can be penalised?

Doesnt seem right to me....

 

[Old Campaigner]

Thanks for the info hdecure

There is no out clause when you're a professional athlete, but IF they were all deceived by a person trying to get results and hide it from the club, I can see leniency being given. Am I just being optimistic?

A question, assume for a second that Dank - whilst working for Essendon - is proven to have imported drugs illegally and/or administer illegal substances to Essendon players.

Essendon have made steps to a) sack Dank (likely for other reasons) and b) report the issue.

If the ASADA find that Dank has done wrong, yet Essendon management and players were unknowing where does that leave us? Is ignorance (as found through an investigation) a defence in this instance or not?

Surely the consent form protects the players in the event that they were misled.

Basically if they had illegal substances they need to sit out for a bit so the effects can wear off, otherwise they are laying with an unfair advantage. The sentence can be reduce to 1 year but at the end of the day, anyone who knowingly or unknowingly to illegal PEDs gets a ban.
Doing the right thing and having attempted to assure that the jabs were clean would only protecct them from AFL sanctions like fines and loss of draft picks.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

2 points.

1. ASADA and WADA have no jurisdiction over the club, only individuals within the club
2. If the papers are off on any article, we must come down on them with the wrath of 1000 suns. Imagine seeing Caro and Fatprick squirming in court.

 

[The Prosecutor]

2 points.

1. ASADA and WADA have no jurisdiction over the club, only individuals within the club
2. If the papers are off on any article, we must come down on them with the wrath of 1000 suns. Imagine seeing Caro and Fatprick squirming in court.

We could have an extra two levels on the HPC.