England tour of South Africa (4 Tests, 3 ODIs, 3 T20s)

[PhatBoy]

He’s a gun, but let’s be realistic.

QDK ‘might’ catch Gilchrists end of career slump statistics.

At the same stage of their careers Gilchrist was averaging 60 with a SR of 88.

There’s a fair gulf between their two respective bests.

I’d be interested to see what Gilchrist’s record under the pump was.

Absolutely I can think of 2 games where he played knocks out of this world - the chase in Hobart in his second match and the first test in India in 2001 but (and this isn’t his fault it’s merely a consequence of being in such an awesome batting line up) he did have the advantage of almost routinely coming to the crease with his side already on top.

And he had 7 years of first class experience when he began test cricket.

De Kock has been in the side basically since he was 19-20 and has developed on the run.

Again not saying he’s as good and Gilchrist kind of redefined the role. But gee he’s got a lot of potential to go close to him I reckon.

 

[Zevon]

I’d be interested to see what Gilchrist’s record under the pump was.

Absolutely I can think of 2 games where he played knocks out of this world - the chase in Hobart in his second match and the first test in India in 2001 but (and this isn’t his fault it’s merely a consequence of being in such an awesome batting line up) he did have the advantage of almost routinely coming to the crease with his side already on top.

And he had 7 years of first class experience when he began test cricket.

De Kock has been in the side basically since he was 19-20 and has developed on the run.

Again not saying he’s as good and Gilchrist kind of redefined the role. But gee he’s got a lot of potential to go close to him I reckon.

Must admit I was genuinely surprised to learn de Kock was only 27 (and only just). Back of my mind I probably knew he was around that mark but he bats with the assuredess of someone 30+ who is right across the strengths and weaknesses of his game.

 

[PhatBoy]

Must admit I was genuinely surprised to learn de Kock was only 27 (and only just). Back of my mind I probably knew he was around that mark but he bats with the assuredess of someone 30+ who is right across the strengths and weaknesses of his game.

He came in and hit 3 centuries in his debut odi series when he was still a teenager im pretty sure.

 

[010203]

SA well placed to win this even though they're 7 down. They lead by 300 which England will struggle to chase down.

 

[Zevon]

SA well placed to win this even though they're 7 down. They lead by 300 which England will struggle to chase down.

Yeah I think they’ve got more than enough already. 200+ was going to be tricky enough, 250+ extremely difficult. Anything over 300 looks masses even if England were in good nick. But a demoralised illness-hit side against a strong bowling attack? They’re well and truly cooked.

 

[Hamingja]

Good interview with Lee. I didn't realise there was that much controversy around his short bowling.

 

[to1994]

Gee, hopefully De Kock is alright. You'd almost take losing the First Test if it meant having him out for the rest of the series.

 

[Hamingja]

QDK even walks like Gilly

 

[Seedsfan]

Just found out Pope definitely would have played if not for illness, only just got to ground today for first time.

Barring a second innings miracle it’ll be an easy swap next test with Bairstow!!

Buttler could also make way, form line not their and not at the ground today in bed sick

 

[PhatBoy]

Ok so Archer now has 3 five-wicket-hauls in 7 tests.

Not bad for an overrated pea hearted space waster

 

[PhatBoy]

For a relatively average batsman f*** Rabada looks classy

 

[SSwans2011]

If England lose this series, is that 4 of the last 5 series, with the only series win coming against Ireland?

 

[010203]

If England lose this series, is that 4 of the last 5 series, with the only series win coming against Ireland?

Not sure we can call a one-off test a series. If we can't. their series win against India in 2018 would be their last. Their last series win outside of England was in South Africa 4 years ago.

 

[Pykie]

Ok so Archer now has 3 five-wicket-hauls in 7 tests.

Not bad for an overrated pea hearted space waster

Good on him.

He only managed to go at 6 Rpo.

Even Holding thinks he’s bowled garbage.

5 wickets means SFA if it’s cost your side major footing in the game situation.

He’s certainly capable of getting wickets, the 4 balls of garbage half volleys an over is the problem for England at the moment.

 

[ams4crows]

Ok so Archer now has 3 five-wicket-hauls in 7 tests.

Not bad for an overrated pea hearted space waster

He went for 6 and over and bought up his own century. Some tidier bowling and this game could of been winnable.

His attitude isn't great when he's down and out, granted they've all been porley during the test

 

[PhatBoy]

He went for 6 and over and bought up his own century. Some tidier bowling and this game could of been winnable.

His attitude isn't great when he's down and out, granted they've all been porley during the test

His attitude was to run in and try and knock heads off. The guy can’t win. He got hammered in New Zealand for not firing up

 

[Pykie]

That’s a shocker from the ump.

 

[ams4crows]

Gee that straightened alot can't believe that wasnt clipping off

 

[PhatBoy]

Good on him.

He only managed to go at 6 Rpo.

Even Holding thinks he’s bowled garbage.

5 wickets means SFA if it’s cost your side major footing in the game situation.

He’s certainly capable of getting wickets, the 4 balls of garbage half volleys an over is the problem for England at the moment.

Sorry but there was more than 3 full days to play when the innings started. They needed wickets. If he took 5-102 off 35 overs it literally wouldn’t make any difference. As it was he took his wickets at a strike rate of 20.

Doubtless he bowled some junk - he’s never going to be bowling like Glenn McGrath - but he’s there to take wickets. They have 4 other quicks who are all more than capable of playing the stump to stump holding role.

 

[Pykie]

His attitude was to run in and try and knock heads off. The guy can’t win. He got hammered in New Zealand for not firing up

What are you on about?

He bowled s**t mixed with some jaffers.

England didn’t need heads knocked off, they needed to run through the side quickly.

The likes of Vaughan, Hussein, Harmison, Atherton have all questioned his work ethic regularly in podcasts over the last 3 months.

You’re acting like this is some BF pile in.

The ‘pea heart’ stuff is harsh, but even the English past players know he picks and chooses when to bowl full tilt. He can only bowl short shock spells because he doesn’t have the grit to grind out longer spells, even though he has such a short run up and it seems so effortless.

He’s just not a very professional cricketer at the moment, like a Cummins or Rabada in comparison.

 

[PhatBoy]

My goodness this is an ugly top order

 

[ams4crows]

His attitude was to run in and try and knock heads off. The guy can’t win. He got hammered in New Zealand for not firing up

So what you're saying is 'he is inconsistent', which is exactly why people are frustrated with him.

 

[Pykie]

Sorry but there was more than 3 full days to play when the innings started. They needed wickets. If he took 5-102 off 35 overs it literally wouldn’t make any difference. As it was he took his wickets at a strike rate of 20.

Doubtless he bowled some junk - he’s never going to be bowling like Glenn McGrath - but he’s there to take wickets. They have 4 other quicks who are all more than capable of playing the stump to stump holding role.

He doesn’t need to bowl a stump to stump holding role....

FFS you go from one extreme to another.

He just needed to keep it within 3-4 rpo and England then don’t face a World Record run chase.....

 

[Dez!]

Ok so Archer now has 3 five-wicket-hauls in 7 tests.

Not bad for an overrated pea hearted space waster

He went at 6 runs an over.............

They pogo'd him all over the place.

His attitude was to run in and try and knock heads off. The guy can’t win. He got hammered in New Zealand for not firing up

That's an England thing, not just a Jofra thing.

 

[PhatBoy]

What are you on about?

He bowled s**t mixed with some jaffers.

England didn’t need heads knocked off, they needed to run through the side quickly.

The likes of Vaughan, Hussein, Harmison, Atherton have all questioned his work ethic regularly in podcasts over the last 3 months.

You’re acting like this is some BF pile in.

The ‘pea heart’ stuff is harsh, but even the English past players know he picks and chooses when to bowl full tilt. He can only bowl short shock spells because he doesn’t have the grit to grind out longer spells, even though he has such a short run up and it seems so effortless.

He’s just not a very professional cricketer at the moment, like a Cummins or Rabada in comparison.

Two bowlers who have 8 and 4 years of test experience behind them.

Absolutely he has some improving to do.

I simply find it fascinating that a player who has played such a tiny amount of test cricket is already such a whipping boy when, if it was a batsman who had hit 3 hundreds in his first 7 matches, no one would say a single word.
He epitomises the pervading attitude here that allegedly a player is literally only to be rated on their most recent innings or spell.

I don’t even get the ‘he doesn’t have the grit’ part. The question was repeatedly raised during the ashes as to whether he was being bowled into the ground or not. He broke through the 20 over barrier 3 times in the four tests and it would have been 4 times except he himself managed to clean the innings up before he’d bowled that many overs.

Even Dale Steyn himself, despite epitomising they word effort, was a bowler who would often bowl within himself when he needed to. Yes we all remember him at his roaring best around 150km/h but he was also a bowler who knew when to reign it back and bowl 10km slower if his rhythm wasn’t right and focus on moving the ball etc.

I just find it so baffling that every other player in the infancy of their career is given a chance to develop and learn but this guy, through no fault of his own, is seemingly expected to be the finished product after barely more than a full series