Essendon 2017

[Ron The Bear]

I don't really care if you think it is a red flag generally speaking. There are obvious extenuating circumstances for Essendon in 2017.
I don't see how anyone could look at our list/best 22 and think the age profile is worrying. I think it is a really poor assessment from someone who just looks at stats without a greater understanding.
Older best 22 players are Watson(been poor + retiring) Kelly(good roleplayer. Retiring) Goddard (good roleplyer) Baguley(inconsistent back pocket) Hooker(important but could have a few years left).
Our list of young to mid aged players looks above average and I am pretty confident in our future.

Mmm, it's a footy forum and that's just my opinion. I remember having similar discussions with St.Kilda supporters around 2012. They never bumped any of my posts from that period and I wasn't vain enough to do it.

As I said earlier, not all doom and gloom and I believe Essendon could be contending for a top four spot in three years if the cards fall their way. Shorter term, not so good.

 

[ezard15]

Are you for real?

So You can't quote the source?

Lying?


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Summer Nights]

Unprecedented in the sense that your the first team to come back from having half your team suspended for systemic drug cheating and the following season possibly making finals?
Yes, yes it is unprecedented.

We're only drug cheats to comfortable satisfaction, not beyond reasonable doubt.

In summary, I'd say half an asterisk worth of unprecedence.

 

[Shadeeq]

Mmm, it's a footy forum and that's just my opinion. I remember having similar discussions with St.Kilda supporters around 2012. They never bumped any of my posts from that period and I wasn't vain enough to do it.

As I said earlier, not all doom and gloom and I believe Essendon could be contending for a top four spot in three years if the cards fall their way. Shorter term, not so good.

Yep you are entitled to your opinion. I just think you have got this one wrong. We have very few important players retiring soon. We have a pretty decent list of mid aged players, and many promising young players. I wouldn't use your words 'not all doom and gloom' to describe our situation, but rather 'very promising with plenty of upside'.

I would also argue that next season you have more important players turning 29+ than us: Goddard Hooker Baguley Myers Bellchambers vs Riewoldt Rance Houli Edwards Grigg. I also think our upside is better than the tigers as I rate our list of young/mid aged players higher:
Daniher Merrett Heppell Hurley Mcgrath Parish Zaharakis Fantasia Tippa Mckenna Stewart Ambrose Gleeson and then the more unproven guys like Francis, Langford, Laverde, Begley, Ridley, Mutch etc. vs Cotchin Martin Prestia Astbury Caddy Grimes B.Ellis Lambert Mcintosh Nankervis Vlastuin Rioli Castagna and unproven guys like Bolton, Menadue, C.Ellis, Graham, Chol etc.

The reason for the comparison is that Richmond statistically have a young list compared to Essendon, yet I rate our young/mid aged playing group significantly higher. But I admit part of that is potential.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Yep you are entitled to your opinion. I just think you have got this one wrong. We have very few important players retiring soon. We have a pretty decent list of mid aged players, and many promising young players. I wouldn't use your words 'not all doom and gloom' to describe our situation, but rather 'very promising with plenty of upside'.

I would also argue that next season you have more important players turning 29+ than us: Goddard Hooker Baguley Myers Bellchambers vs Riewoldt Rance Houli Edwards Grigg. I also think our upside is better than the tigers as I rate our list of young/mid aged players higher:
Daniher Merrett Heppell Hurley Mcgrath Parish Zaharakis Fantasia Tippa Mckenna Stewart Ambrose Gleeson and then the more unproven guys like Francis, Langford, Laverde, Begley, Ridley, Mutch etc. vs Cotchin Martin Prestia Astbury Caddy Grimes B.Ellis Lambert Mcintosh Nankervis Vlastuin Rioli Castagna and unproven guys like Bolton, Menadue, C.Ellis, Graham, Chol etc.

The reason for the comparison is that Richmond statistically have a young list compared to Essendon, yet I rate our young/mid aged playing group significantly higher. But I admit part of that is potential.

Yeah we've got nobody of genuine star quality coming through at the bottom end, just a number of potentially solid players. Rioli and Bolton are maybes but really are restricted to cameos at this stage. We haven't had a star walk through the door since Martin arrived with Hardwick. Rance is still 27 like Hurley but we desperately need a successor to Riewoldt (even a helper would be nice). I think both Richmond and Essendon are positioned several spots higher on the ladder than they would otherwise be, had the fixture for all teams been equal. Due partly to Martin busting our nuts we don't have a lot of salary cap space to attract a star, so we'll go to the draft with two first-rounders and fingers crossed.

Regardless of the promise, a young player will not be able to replace a Watson or a Kelly and perform the same job unless they're exceptional. They'll make mistakes and the team will cop a performance hit and have to settle for mid-table or possibly lower for the next two years while their replacements come up to a level where they're able to perform consistently. Anyway, happy to revisit in twelve months.

 

[blitzer]

I don't do lists, only the senior 22's. It may well be that the latent talent is there to replace the outgoings. But generally speaking, it's a red flag - other recent teams to have recorded 10 losses as the older team are North & Freo (2016), Carlton (2014-15), Freo (2008), Melbourne & Essendon (2007). Generally it's a signal that a team requires a rebuild of some sort, although I'll concede I view the current Essendon team slightly differently to the others listed.

Those are some interesting observations. I've thought for a while now that our list will be best placed to challenge from around 2019/2020 which is about when our best talents will reach a good level of maturity/experience without losing anyone too important. I think McGrath will be our last real top pick for a while so would want him as the youngest in our core team to be at least in his 3rd year.

Its always pretty subjective when fans of a team talk about having the talent to replace outgoing players. I think we are better placed than some of the other teams that you've listed (North 2016 felt like an extreme example to me where it was really obvious that a significant rebuild was required) but I still wouldn't be shocked if we slipped out of the finals next year.

 

[Skipper_]

7-12 was where most Essendon supporters expected us to finish (opposition supporters had us lower though). Next year missing finals would probably be a disappointed for us given we are only losing Watson who is unfortunately fringe 22, Kelly who has been decent but not one of our stars and probably Hocking and Stanton who are now considered depth. Our young core of Daniher, Merrett, McGrath, Parish and co. is looking pretty good in comparison to a few of the older, declining teams mentioned. People forgot that if a few things go our way against Sydney, Brisbane and Carlton in Round 3 we are sitting top four. I know it's only hypothetical and people will put it to our soft draw but I'm sure all Essendon fans are excited with where we are heading.

 

[Halftimehero]

Not sure the soft draw argument really stacks up when we lost to Carlton, Brisbane and Fremantle anyway, if we do end up making it, we've had to beat teams inside the 8 to do it.

 

[Dons4days]

Meanwhile, none of us supporters had anything to do with that. But we did show up to see our team smashed and turned inside out as things changed from guilty to innocent and back in the blink of an eye over the past years.

Anyway, most of us are trying to move on and just enjoy the footy after so many years of shit. If you really want to stoke the fire, Bay13 seems as good a place as any.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Well said.
I for one have just been happy for us to have played a full season without the constant spotlight on us for the wrong reasons.

Finals or not, I've really enjoyed cheering the boys on this year & I'm pretty excited about the talent coming through in the future.

 

[Ambrosia]

Regardless of the promise, a young player will not be able to replace a Watson or a Kelly and perform the same job unless they're exceptional. They'll make mistakes and the team will cop a performance hit and have to settle for mid-table or possibly lower for the next two years while their replacements come up to a level where they're able to perform consistently. Anyway, happy to revisit in twelve months.

Kelly has been excellent and will definitely leave a hole but no one who's watched us would say we'll miss Watson. He simply can't run out games anymore and his disposal has worsened considerably.

 

[Dan26]

We've owned 8th for years 1992, 1998, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2011.

We should be called Eighthendon.

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

Apart from bomber fans, no one actually feels sorry or is happy for Essendon's success at all...

 

[Dan26]

Apart from bomber fans, no one actually feels sorry or is happy for Essendon's success at all...

What's that got to do with anything, and what is the point of posting it???

 

[fishardansin]

Yeah we've got nobody of genuine star quality coming through at the bottom end, just a number of potentially solid players. Rioli and Bolton are maybes but really are restricted to cameos at this stage. We haven't had a star walk through the door since Martin arrived with Hardwick. Rance is still 27 like Hurley but we desperately need a successor to Riewoldt (even a helper would be nice). I think both Richmond and Essendon are positioned several spots higher on the ladder than they would otherwise be, had the fixture for all teams been equal. Due partly to Martin busting our nuts we don't have a lot of salary cap space to attract a star, so we'll go to the draft with two first-rounders and fingers crossed.

Regardless of the promise, a young player will not be able to replace a Watson or a Kelly and perform the same job unless they're exceptional. They'll make mistakes and the team will cop a performance hit and have to settle for mid-table or possibly lower for the next two years while their replacements come up to a level where they're able to perform consistently. Anyway, happy to revisit in twelve months.

Watson's form drop off this year has been stark. We won't replace 2008-2013 Jobe, but we will certainly replace 2017 Jobe. Kelly has been good in tight games, but we have lots of depth in that position with Francis, Ridley and the like not in the side this year. Goddard will be here next year so that softens the departures.

Essendon has a solid best 25 or so. A star backman, two star mids, two gun small forwards and a star KPF. Where Essendon is lacking is inside mids who are not slow as treacle. Looks like you're hanging onto him but Martin is the perfect player for our list right now. The club has hopes for Begley, Laverde and Langford to become big bodied mids.

If anything, having the old players back this year has held back the opportunity for a few 20-year-olds getting games. Begley and Langford should have played more, Mutch should have been given a game too. I hope next year the club focusses on developing these players ahead of winning games. The club needs to rotate players who aren't coming on through our list a lot faster than it has over the last decade or so. The only way you can make these calls if they either look like they're nowhere near it or have had good exposure at senior level.

What you're saying about our list would be true if we had Carlisle, Ryder and Hibberd on our list rather than Francis, Ridley and Langford. Essendon's current list won't be at its peak until 2019 or 2020. I still expect it to improve next year.

 

[Bigjobss]

Apart from bomber fans, no one actually feels sorry or is happy for Essendon's success at all...

 

[Del165198]

Apart from bomber fans, no one actually feels sorry or is happy for Essendon's success at all...

how can anyone consider essendon's season a success thus far? winning a final would be a success for them given it hasn't happened for a while. just making the finals to be bundled out i wouldn't say is a success.

 

[citizen-erased]

We've owned 8th for years 1992, 1998, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2011.

We should be called Eighthendon.

Essend8n.

Also, 8 is * on a keyboard....
just sayin'

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

We can lose to freo.

you blokes will win by 20 goals

 

[Jaeger]

Season is a passmark.
Would have to be some chance to win an elimination final but can't see them progressing further.

 

[theprospect]

We've owned 8th for years 1992, 1998, 2003, 2004, 2009, 2011.

We should be called Eighthendon.

Personally, I think a more suitable name would be *

 

[blitzer]

Apart from bomber fans, no one actually feels sorry or is happy for Essendon's success at all...

Well I've read a lot of posts this year from neutrals saying how much they enjoy our style of plan so some people clearly don't care that much about the saga and would rather just watch footy.

Its really only Carlton, Hawthorn and North Melbourne fans on Bigfooty that still care about the saga. The only other time it gets mentioned is when we have just won a game against their team and that's just hilarious and entertaining.

Anyway - who on earth wants other teams supporters to be happy for your success? Rub it in their faces and enjoy it.

 

[Rack Watts]

Personally, I think a more suitable name would be *

As opposed to the midget burning rapists you guys tend to recruit.

 

[JayJ20]

Apart from bomber fans, no one actually feels sorry or is happy for Essendon's success at all...

I'm happy that Carlton is at the bottom as well

 

[Aramis]

Well who are the older guys? Players like Watson, Stanton, Howlett, Goddard, Myers, Baguley, Kelly etc aren't essential to our team going forward. It's our core of youth that leads the way for us.

I'll pay this, your youth is excellent and I don't think your retirements will be as burdensome as others believe.
In saying that you do need to recruit some solid blokes to replace them... a couple of A1 mids would not go astray.

 

[Flandersss]

Have you seen Watson play?

No penetration on his kicking & looks to have lost a yard of pace