Roast Essendon Review Internal

[The Donners]

Is it true the club spent a bit of money on looking for the right coach.. Scouring the country, then gave it to the guy in the office down the hall?


Probably scared of stuffing up again, don't want to see the hard realities, the tough calls that have to be made.

Just find it intriguing that the guys who are in the gun are running the review.


Can anyone see the 'everything is alright' approach done after the 5 days it takes them..

What a joke we have become, we are the laughing stock of the AFL, and it ****ing hurts. I am a one eyed supporter and we are not even going to take a risk and get someone in to look at our pathetic list, our pathetic playing style, the football department spending is one of the lowest in the AFL (can someone confirm this, back me up?).

Why can't Essendon take a true risk and trade out "player x", or do "action y".. Just continue on with mediocrity.

I love your passion and I feel your pain.

Our list isn't pathetic. Continuing on as if it's going to suddenly become a premiership contender though is niaive.

 

[Yoda_]

I love your passion and I feel your pain.

Our list isn't pathetic. Continuing on as if it's going to suddenly become a premiership contender though is niaive.

No, no, it is!!

It is pathetic.. All this talk about 'big pre seasons' and, 'fitness training' is stupid..

Teach them to kick so they can kick hit the lock on the side of the barn door, so that instead of chasing tail, we can be running forward to kick goals..

How about that?

 

[Yoda_]

Donners

Another thing I should point out is the development in our kids..

The same names (Houli, Myers, Reimers, Jetta) are thrown around as trade bait, simply because they have not come on at all since being drafted..

Reimers showed in his first year some exciting times, whilst Jetta showed some promise in the middle of this year. Myers had a good game V western bulldogs, then went missing and was duly dropped.

Houli IMO is the most unknown quantity of the lot. Can play outside, but looks as though he has improved his inside game immensely. His ability in the big time has been shown playing in defence and also across the centre line, whilst I feel he could be most well utilized playing across half forward.

These are the guys that are going to be leaving us in the biggest hole when/if they leave..

 

[The Donners]

Donners

Another thing I should point out is the development in our kids..

The same names (Houli, Myers, Reimers, Jetta) are thrown around as trade bait, simply because they have not come on at all since being drafted..

Reimers showed in his first year some exciting times, whilst Jetta showed some promise in the middle of this year. Myers had a good game V western bulldogs, then went missing and was duly dropped.

Houli IMO is the most unknown quantity of the lot. Can play outside, but looks as though he has improved his inside game immensely. His ability in the big time has been shown playing in defence and also across the centre line, whilst I feel he could be most well utilized playing across half forward.

These are the guys that are going to be leaving us in the biggest hole when/if they leave..

I agree with you. This is why I don't believe our list is pathetic.

I initially thought Knights was appointed PURELY as a development coach and in time he would be moved on once we got to a certain point. However, there's been a lack of development as you say and there's a distinct lack of fundamental skills on our list. Development or recruiting?

 

[yaco55]

Is it true the club spent a bit of money on looking for the right coach.. Scouring the country, then gave it to the guy in the office down the hall?


Probably scared of stuffing up again, don't want to see the hard realities, the tough calls that have to be made.

Just find it intriguing that the guys who are in the gun are running the review.


Can anyone see the 'everything is alright' approach done after the 5 days it takes them..

What a joke we have become, we are the laughing stock of the AFL, and it ****ing hurts. I am a one eyed supporter and we are not even going to take a risk and get someone in to look at our pathetic list, our pathetic playing style, the football department spending is one of the lowest in the AFL (can someone confirm this, back me up?).

Why can't Essendon take a true risk and trade out "player x", or do "action y".. Just continue on with mediocrity.

HFF

good post.

The thing that i can't get answered is

Who is the potentail replacement for Knights ?

It is strange that the media hasn't floated any names at all.

No point sacking Knights unless you have targetted the right candidate.

 

[Godzke]

You did the review yourself didn't you?

No, I don't have the female touch.

 

[stander]

Speaking of internal reviews, these are the results of GFC CEO Brian Cooks' internal review. Bomber was defintely under the pump back then

Thompson to stay & King steps down as captain...among other things.

Well probably the most public football department review in the history of football has finally come to an end. If you are a GFC member you will receive the outcome of the review in the mail. But for those who cannot wait or aren't members here's what they media are reporting:

Cats stick with Thompson amid a raft of changes

Mark Thompson will coach a restructured Geelong Football Club for at least one more season after convincing the board yesterday he still had the passion for the job and was prepared to change his style. Among a series of significant on- and off-field changes, the club has appointed experienced defender Tom Harley as its new captain after Steven King said he no longer wanted the job, while influential president Frank Costa has indicated he could now remain at the helm for at least another three years.

There is a lot to take out of that article and it will be interesting to see how in depth the letter is that is mailed out to the members, but here is my take on things:
Firstly I am not over the moon Thompson will coach on, but I think we all saw this coming with one year left on his contract and I am willing to give him one last shot and it will be interesting to see how things progress this off-season and next year.
I agree with Cook that the Sydney game disguised a lot of problems. I've been saying all year that our 2005 wasn't up to standard and our finals campaign hid a lot of problems. Being 7-3 after 10 rounds we should have been looking at top 4 instead of stumbling into the 8 like we did. In a lot of way 2006 is the same as 2005 but reversed except for not making the finals which is a good thing as it kept the pressure on the hierarchy at the club.
Now for the proposed changes; it is obviously a plus to have Thompson focus on the coaching side of things. I heard Cook interviewed Monday morning on SEN 1116 and he said everyone he talked to thought Thompson was excellent with the coaching side of things and his tactics. Now I don't think his tactics are too flash, but it occurred to me that too often when you win coaching moves/tactics are overlooked yet they are critically reviewed by nearly everyone during a loss so I will try and keep a more open mind this season on Thompson's coaching skills and moves.
The termination or end of Andy Lovell was easily the most predictable thing to come out of the review. Since Cresswell has left the club's midfield has gone backwards under Lovell, end of.
More money into the football department is always a good thing, however the interstate clubs are so far ahead in this department to most Victorian clubs how much difference will $400k actually make?
The 4th dot point I am not so thrilled about. Why should the leadership group have a say in trades & list management etc. It seems at first thoughts to be too easily corrupted by the group to get who they want to play in etc. Maybe they should get some say, I just hope it isn't too heavily weighted.
A Football Operations Chief sounds like the thing to do, to get Thompson back to focussing on coaching

Link

 

[Ben the Gooner]

No, no, it is!!

It is pathetic.

In that case, Knights is a fantastic coach, getting a pathetic list to beat St Kilda x 3, Hawthorn x 3, Carlton x 3, Footscray, Collingwood, Sydney away.

Do you honestly believe that?

 

[Yoda_]

In that case, Knights is a fantastic coach, getting a pathetic list to beat St Kilda x 3, Hawthorn x 3, Carlton x 3, Footscray, Collingwood, Sydney away.

Do you honestly believe that?

Ben,

I have gone through this before..

Last year was a fluke, we were not a finals team.

The teams we beat were all either close rivals that no matter what position on the ladder we are, the games are genuinely hard fought, or, the teams we at the bottom half of the ladder.

The only real game we had won convincingly last year was the highlighted game against Sydney I presume?

Other than that, we beat Fremantle, Carlton, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Richmond, Melbourne, Carlton, Sydney, St.Kilda and Hawthorn..

Knights is a horrible coach, in every win we had one of the delisted, traded retired players was either a leading goal kicker or one of our best three players (more often than not two in our top 5)..

The fact that players like Myers, Houli, Jetta, Reimers have not come on? how do you answer that?

We have drafted in duds or ok players.. Time for some harsh realities Ben.

Some big changes need to be made, sadly for us, no one will take one of the aforementioned players and our hand will be forced to delist one of Houli, Myers, Still, Lonergan, Atkinson, Laycock... you get the idea..

It is about time we worked on our skills and not our fitness, if we had the ball and used it well to retain the ball, we would not be forced to track back into defence and cover our ass'.

Our list (of smalls) is pathetic.. Time for some people to take off our rose colored glasses and see this. Why else would players like Howlett, Melksham, Marigliani (now), Colyer all getting games before the main four of undeveloped kids (Myers, Houli, Reimers, Lonergan)?

Beats me.. Surely these first year AFL players cannot all be getting games before these seasoned AFL listed players? surely not.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Knights is a horrible coach

...

Our list (of smalls) is pathetic.

But we keep beating good teams.

Does not compute.

 

[rines]

BTG: I think you are too loyal. You have gone past the point of reason and are now defending an ideal rather than reality.

Our list is poor, very poor. Yes it started poor when Knights took over (no one is disputing Sheeds left us in a hole) BUT the recruiting since hasn't been much better. Additionally NO guys have "kicked" on in the last three years other than maybe zaka.

Ryder seemed to be improving only to go into a lull. Hurley seems to have gone backwards, along with prismall, houli, jetta, davey, reimers et al. Stanton has stagnated along with monfries.

Gumby put together 3/4 of a season before going down to injury.. at this rate he might actually put together a whole season before he retires! I was very encouraged at some of the steps he took this year BUT realistically he didn't "tear it up" or announce himself (not that I expected him too). I think he is probably still 2-3 FULL seasons away from dominating and that may never happen.

Neagle is speculative at best. Hooker floats in and out and we will have to see how Pears comes back next year.

Fletcher and Watson are so well clear of the rest it is scary.

Worrying worrying signs.. and we haven't even begun with the gameplan, match ups, selections, coaching style..

An internal review is a joke.. M Knights reviewing his own crap coaching style? Kangaroo court anyone.. his statement will go like this:
"Football department needs more money. Journey is hard with unexpected hurdles however playing group is united behind coach and believes in vision. 2010 was disappointing however moral is high and true supporters were revealed in dark times. Strong wins against St Kilda and Carlton show we are on the right track and as such 2011 should be a winning year. Please extend my contract for another two years now to make sure there isn't speculation about my contract if (when) we lose the first 5 games. Yours sincerely.. M Knights. P.S. don't worry about dwindling membership and attendance.. they were(n't) real supporters anyway. P.P.S We want to be seen as men except when we lose, then its because we are boys."

 

[Yoda_]

But we keep beating good teams.

Does not compute.

... but lose to bad teams?

Can we put a name to this theorem?

 

[Yoda_]

BTG: I think you are too loyal. You have gone past the point of reason and are now defending an ideal rather than reality.

Our list is poor, very poor. Yes it started poor when Knights took over (no one is disputing Sheeds left us in a hole) BUT the recruiting since hasn't been much better. Additionally NO guys have "kicked" on in the last three years other than maybe zaka.

Ryder seemed to be improving only to go into a lull. Hurley seems to have gone backwards, along with prismall, houli, jetta, davey, reimers et al. Stanton has stagnated along with monfries.

Gumby put together 3/4 of a season before going down to injury.. at this rate he might actually put together a whole season before he retires! I was very encouraged at some of the steps he took this year BUT realistically he didn't "tear it up" or announce himself (not that I expected him too). I think he is probably still 2-3 FULL seasons away from dominating and that may never happen.

Neagle is speculative at best. Hooker floats in and out and we will have to see how Pears comes back next year.

Fletcher and Watson are so well clear of the rest it is scary.

Worrying worrying signs.. and we haven't even begun with the gameplan, match ups, selections, coaching style..

An internal review is a joke.. M Knights reviewing his own crap coaching style? Kangaroo court anyone.. his statement will go like this:
"Football department needs more money. Journey is hard with unexpected hurdles however playing group is united behind coach and believes in vision. 2010 was disappointing however moral is high and true supporters were revealed in dark times. Strong wins against St Kilda and Carlton show we are on the right track and as such 2011 should be a winning year. Please extend my contract for another two years now to make sure there isn't speculation about my contract when we lose the first 5 games. Yours sincerely.. M Knights. P.S. don't worry about dwindling membership and attendance.. they were real supporters anyway. P.P.S We want to be seen as men except when we lose, then its because we are boys."

Rines, I would just like to bring to your attention that three years ago, Merv Keane was put in place as 'head recruiter' whilst Adrian Dodoro was put into place as 'list manager'..

Since Keane came in, he has drafted in some absoulte gems, whilst the last two years from Dodoro (05, 06) were pretty average... at best.


And I like the 'letter'.. Made me LOL

 

[rines]

HFF: Should have clarified about the recruiting. I was probably thinking about a couple of decision (M Knights over rules according to most reports) such as Barlow and the recruitment of M Williams. Retiring (sorry whatever we are calling it) of Lloyd.

Also not convinced Myers has it.. but is this lack of opportunity or was he never that good? He baffles me in BB games, sometimes looks $1M and other days worth sand.

Also still haven't picked up a true true true stand out midfielder to support Watson and that will hurt us long term.

But then again I think if you look at the 2007 recruiting group it wasn't that bad so I think the signs were heading upwards. It was really the 2002-2005 that killed us IMHO.

 

[Beerfish]

... but lose to bad teams?

Can we put a name to this theorem?

The Knights Paradox.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

BTG: I think you are too loyal. You have gone past the point of reason and are now defending an ideal rather than reality.

I'm defending one of Knights or the list.

It is indisputable that one of them must be doing OK, given the regularity with which we beat good teams. Sure, we're inconsistent, but there is indisputably something positive at the EFC.

Whether it's the coach or the list, I'll leave you to decide.

IMO, and IMO only, the list is poor, ergo it's the coach that's doing something right.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

The fact that players like Myers, Houli, Jetta, Reimers have not come on? how do you answer that?

because development isn't a ****ing flowchart. God almighty

 

[Yoda_]

HFF: Should have clarified about the recruiting. I was probably thinking about a couple of decision (M Knights over rules according to most reports) such as Barlow and the recruitment of M Williams. Retiring (sorry whatever we are calling it) of Lloyd.

Also not convinced Myers has it.. but is this lack of opportunity or was he never that good? He baffles me in BB games, sometimes looks $1M and other days worth sand.

Also still haven't picked up a true true true stand out midfielder to support Watson and that will hurt us long term.

But then again I think if you look at the 2007 recruiting group it wasn't that bad so I think the signs were heading upwards. It was really the 2002-2005 that killed us IMHO.

Yeah, I am not completely sold on Knights, have never actually stated this before.

Was really annoyed at Knights for forcing the hand of Lloyd.. Did't even go to his farewell press conference, [a bit suss don't you think?].

I'm with you on the Myers call too Rines.

People form an opinion on the few games they have seen Myers (and some of the other players in question) and do not actullay go and watch them week in week out (at Bendigo)..

I think the recruiting since Keane took over has been outstanding.

 

[rines]

BTG: I don't think we beat "good" teams as often as you feel we do. I would exactly say we are breaking even with good teams..

Whilst I agree there have been some good wins, St K and WB, for mine this year.. 2 out of 22 isn't exactly flash is it... And if you can't repeat a result consistently then it MUST be considered an anomaly and the data discarded.

So I contend the list AND coach are both bad.

Case in point, Richmond has won 6 games this year and they are just starting their rebuild and we have won 7. Surely that has to start hitting you at some point. I respect you highly and it is a shame to think you have lost the ability to see reason.

It is not disloyal to admit mistakes have been made and that they need to be fixed.

As questions; do you want to see this same crap served up next year? Do you want our club to be mediocre? Do you enjoy being the competition whipping boys and laughing stock? Do you like that every article is negative? Do you realise the impact this will have on our membership not only next year but for the next 50? Over 30% of new AFL supporters (ie Kids) now select their club based on personal preference rather than family ties.. this means we are losing an entire generation of supporters with gold coast and GWS only to make things worse. Do you want our club to fade to nothing?

If you answered no to any of these questions then why do you continue to support M Knights so loyally without cause?

 

[Yoda_]

because development isn't a ****ing flowchart. God almighty

Lance

One of these 4 would have to be nearing a permanent spot in our best 22 after having at least 3 years in the system..

Why do you think they have not been given an opportunity? not developed and kicked on?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Lance

One of these 4 would have to be nearing a permanent spot in our best 22 after having at least 3 years in the system..

Why do you think they have not been given an opportunity? not developed and kicked on?

3 years is not a long time when it comes to development. In decades past players would have spent that long in the ressies: see Bomber Thompson.

Jetta, Myers & Reimers all undoubtedly have the capacity to become best 22 players. Whether they do or not is yet to be seen. But it is certainly not yet apparent that they are not able to do this

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Whilst I agree there have been some good wins, St K and WB, for mine this year.. 2 out of 22 isn't exactly flash is it.

Jeez you're good at re-writing history, aren't you?

The following teams have played finals in either/both of 2009 and 2010:

Geelong, St Kilda, Footscray, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Fremantle, Carlton, Adelaide, Brisbane, Sydney (as well as us).

When we've played these teams:

[strike]2009, Rd 2 - Fremantle - WIN[/strike]
2009, Rd 3 - Carlton - WIN
2009, Rd 5 - Collingwood - WIN
2009, Rd 6 - Brisbane - LOSS
2009, Rd 7 - Hawthorn - WIN
2009, Rd 8 - St Kilda - LOSS
2009, Rd 10 - Geelong - LOSS
2009, Rd 11 - Adelaide - LOSS
2009, Rd 13 - Carlton - WIN
2009, Rd 14 - Collingwood - LOSS
2009, Rd 15 - Sydney - WIN
2009, Rd 16 - Western Bulldogs - LOSS
2009, Rd 19 - Brisbane - DRAW
2009, Rd 20 - St Kilda - WIN
[strike]2009, Rd 21 - Fremantle - LOSS[/strike]
2009, Rd 22 - Hawthorn - WIN
2010, Rd 1 - Geelong - LOSS
2010, Rd 2 - Fremantle - LOSS
2010, Rd 3 - Carlton - WIN
2010, Rd 5 - Collingwood - LOSS
2010, Rd 6 - Hawthorn - WIN
2010, Rd 8 - St Kilda - WIN
2010, Rd 10 - Western Bulldogs - WIN
2010, Rd 11 - Sydney - LOSS
2010, Rd 12 - Geelong - LOSS
2010, Rd 13 - Hawthorn - LOSS
2010, Rd 14 - Adelaide - LOSS
2010, Rd 18 - St Kilda - WIN
2010, Rd 19 - Carlton - LOSS
2010, Rd 20 - Collingwood - LOSS
2010, Rd 21 - Brisbane - LOSS

29 games (ignoring the two Freo games last year, because they were diabolical) and 12 wins and a draw.

12.5/29 = 43%

Not a fantastic record, but certainly not an anomaly.

But hey, you stick to your 2/22 = 9% argument. It suits your agenda.

 

[The Donners]

Yeah, I am not completely sold on Knights, have never actually stated this before.

Was really annoyed at Knights for forcing the hand of Lloyd.. Did't even go to his farewell press conference, [a bit suss don't you think?].

Knights was at Lloydy's farewell press conference.

 

[Yoda_]

Lance

You did not answer my question..

I agree that all these players have shown an ability at the top level.

Jetta (on the weekend), Reimers (in his first year and a half), Houli (in his first year) whilst even I was appreciative of the output that David Myers put in during the Bulldogs win earlier in the year.

Why have these players not kicked on as some/most of the other clubs kids in this age bracket done?

 

[Yoda_]

Knights was at Lloydy's farewell press conference.

Really?

I didn't think he was..


ok he was there, but Lloyd "requested to sit next to CEO Peter Jackson and not next to coach Matthew Knights" makes for interested reading..

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26115956-23211,00.html?from=public_rss


I really do respect Lloyd, he is one ex - player who I think we should/need to get on side and begin to start defending the club.. Same goes for Hird.

People (I personally think) respect what they have to say in the media, and what they are saying at the moment is not all entirely good about the club.