Evolution of Daisy

[DThomas]

*cough*wrongthreadguys*cough*

 

[Pie eyed]

LOL sorry DT You did put evolution in the title though.
That's the last I'll say on the matter. I just wanted to answer the last post as it could have been misconstrued that I hold some odd evolutionary beliefs.

Dales coming along well and we should have more to be happy about next week.

 

[doppleganger]

MY take on the evolution of Daisy

- Big question marks when drafted, plenty wanted Ellis
- Great start, all aboard the Daisy train
- Kept on keeping on, rushed back for finals and played well.....potential future star
- Buckley gone, so pies PR machine turns attention to Daisy....starts building a public profile
- wins a few games off his own boot, speccy's keep coming as does publicity
- tide begins to turn......oppo supporters cant stand him
- slows down in his progression, or is it more that blokes like pendles, swan, heater take their game to a new level?
- is taught accountability, but flashiness exits his game
- pies fans start losing faith
- does his job well, but aint a superstar....is he a waste of pick 2
- now one of the pies most maligned players IMO

 

[Blur]

Dale looks disturbingly like another player in one of his earlier evolutions.

 

[Invigoration]

*cough*wrongthreadguys*cough*

Haha, yeah sorry mate. Interesting to get involved in conversations like this with some other insightful Pies fans though I find, obviously not the thread for it though

I already stated in the review thread that I thought he was pretty good on the weekend. Played his role perfectly, shut down Griffen quite effectively and used the ball better than he has in the past.
I think he is in for a big year, if he can play like that all year (shake off a bit of ball handling rust he had), average over 20 disposal and continue to excel defensively then a top 10 in the BnF would certainly be on the cards.

A realigning of people's expectations in regards to Dale would go a long way, also probably need to ensure they aren't influenced by negative opinions from opposition supporters which I think can somethings take their toll. He undoubtedly has areas to improve on, but he is slowly continuing to develop as a player. We've got a game plan that thrives on a champion group as opposed to a group of champions, and in that regard, Thomas is certainly playing and fulfilling his role.

 

[Zahki]

Hahaha, damn. Nice work.

 

[Swooop]

I don't remember another player quite so stigmatised by the number of his draft pick.

Almost every time you hear something about DT, it is almost invariably accompanied by draft pick number 2.

Gees, it was five years ago.

I think DT is much better now, as others have pointed out, now that he does the percentage, team oriented things much more, and less of the speckies for the highlight reel.

He appears one of the hardest working guys out there, runs himself into the ground, and never shirks a contest ever. I can only think other oppo supporters say he's soft out of ignorance, likely based on his boyish good looks and previous propensity for the specky stuff.

 

[loki04]

Exactly this his too patchy in his overall gameday performances dont think his ever got 30 touches in a game, not totally sure of this but the point is there.

Fwiw James Hird didn't crack 30 disposals until he was in his 30s.

 

[Old Spice]

I would have had Gary emerging from the swamp, but then I'm a pernickity tyrant. Nice work.

 

[Snag Breac]

Going back 15 years you would look at him & say wingman. Chuck him on the wing & let him run. Sadly that is a position that does not exist like it used to. He is really starting to look like more of a utility, good at most things but not great at anything. He is struggling to fit into our bulging midfield talent, small forwards we have by the box full, running half backs are catered for (but think this would suit him).

I still have that game in my head where he tagged Dal Santo and hurt him going the other way. I think this sort of role could be great for him. Run with an elite player who takes him to the ball and hurt them going the other way, much like Kane Cornes used to do but Thomas would be more dangerous around goals.

Other than that he has me scratching my head how we should play him.

In yet another Dale thomas thread I asked why he polarised opinion so much, and I think you may have the kernel of the answer here, Didak 4.

Since this is a Tradedraft thread, I have a suggestion. Would it possible to make a video of Dale's entire gametime for about 6 weeks in a row and post them here? Then we would get a more accurate impression of how he's faring. Some critics might be surprised to see how much he does. What do you say Dave?

 

[Pie eyed]

I don't remember another player quite so stigmatised by the number of his draft pick.

Almost every time you hear something about DT, it is almost invariably accompanied by draft pick number 2.

Gees, it was five years ago.

I think DT is much better now, as others have pointed out, now that he does the percentage, team oriented things much more, and less of the speckies for the highlight reel.

He appears one of the hardest working guys out there, runs himself into the ground, and never shirks a contest ever. I can only think other oppo supporters say he's soft out of ignorance, likely based on his boyish good looks and previous propensity for the specky stuff.

Daisy is a one off.
I see him possibly as a Robbie Flower type player, but in an era when those skills and flexibility are largely undervalued.
The whole "method" of game plans and structured tactical configurations is diametrically opposed to the flamboyant lair style which not only allowed these types to flourish but encouraged their development. Trevor Barker and Daisy would be great mates if they ever met as contemporaries.

 

[DoubleO7]

Fwiw James Hird didn't crack 30 disposals until he was in his 30s.

Found the ball 30 times in a game in his 5th year (1996) .

 

[sr36]

Number 2 draft choices

1996 Chris Heffernan
1997 Brad Ottens
1998 Justin Longmuir
1999 Paul Hasleby
2000 Justin Koschitzke
2001 Luke Ball
2002 Daniel Wells
2003 Andrew Walker
2004 Jarryd Roughead
2005 Daisy
2006 Scott Gumbleton

I reckon that Daisy is a pretty bloody good young player. Even when he is compared with other number 2 draft choices, he looks alright. I'm very confident that he will have a better career than Longmuir, Koschitzke, Heffernan and Walker. In fact Roughhead is the only one on that list who I think that Daisy won't surpass.

 

[pinky951]

Dale looks disturbingly like another player in one of his earlier evolutions.

Fraser Gehrig?

 

[Swooop]

Daisy is a one off.
I see him possibly as a Robbie Flower type player, but in an era when those skills and flexibility are largely undervalued.
The whole "method" of game plans and structured tactical configurations is diametrically opposed to the flamboyant lair style which not only allowed these types to flourish but encouraged their development. Trevor Barker and Daisy would be great mates if they ever met as contemporaries.

Very good comparison IMO.

Daisy would have been your classic winger back in those times.

Will be very interesting to see where he ends up making his niche in todays game.

Dare I say, running HBF at the expense of a certain beloved possum eyed player in the black and white?!

Yet to be 100% sold there..i'm up to 60-62% probably!!

 

[cannons]

So, basically this thread is arguing that the characteristics for which Dale was drafted have disappeared from his game?

 

[mattys123]

So, basically this thread is arguing that the characteristics for which Dale was drafted have disappeared from his game?

I don't think that's the "only message" in this thread.

Yes Thomas isn't as flashy and brilliant on a consistent basis as we thought he would have been when he was drafted at no.2, but he does still maintain that ability to win a game off his own boot, in fact he did on at least 2 occasions last season (Sydney game and I forget the other).

Thomas' evolution has been one of interest to me, and I have defended him the whole way, not more then this pre season when his 2009 season efforts were criticized strongly, mostly by our own supporters.

I've also stated that we won't see Thomas' best and most consistent football until he reaches the age of about 25, and I believe this is because of his body size and shape.

Not unsimilar to Leon Davis, Thomas is getting better every year, learning to play in new positions and developing his game with each position he plays.

I'd say by the end of 2010 he will be inside Collingwood's top 10 players, probably for the first time in his career, and considering the strength of our current side, that will be some achievement.

I rated Thomas in our top 10 players on the weekend, he shut down his opponent like he does regularly now, and also gained plenty of the ball, with an 86% disposal efficiency.

I also compare Thomas to the player taken straight after him, and the one many criticize us for not taking, Xavier Ellis (spelling?), who has a similar body type to Thomas and plays a similar role, but has had more injury problems, although he was carried to a flag also.

Both Thomas and Ellis, and their type of player, will player their best AFL football from about the age of 25 on, due to development and size issues, well that's just my opinion anyway.

Thomas' also won't lose his flashiness, it will and has returned in patches, it's just MM and the coaching staff don't want Dale to be a "one trick pony", and are turning him into a complete player.

I'll defend Daisy every time, even for a no.2 draft pick I believe we have a "ripper" here, who would get a game for any other team in the comp, even now, let alone in the future.

(Sorry for the rant, daisy's one of my favs).

 

[Camo1902]

I don't think that's the "only message" in this thread.

Yes Thomas isn't as flashy and brilliant on a consistent basis as we thought he would have been when he was drafted at no.2, but he does still maintain that ability to win a game off his own boot, in fact he did on at least 2 occasions last season (Sydney game and I forget the other).

Thomas' evolution has been one of interest to me, and I have defended him the whole way, not more then this pre season when his 2009 season efforts were criticized strongly, mostly by our own supporters.

I've also stated that we won't see Thomas' best and most consistent football until he reaches the age of about 25, and I believe this is because of his body size and shape.

Not unsimilar to Leon Davis, Thomas is getting better every year, learning to play in new positions and developing his game with each position he plays.

I'd say by the end of 2010 he will be inside Collingwood's top 10 players, probably for the first time in his career, and considering the strength of our current side, that will be some achievement.

I rated Thomas in our top 10 players on the weekend, he shut down his opponent like he does regularly now, and also gained plenty of the ball, with an 86% disposal efficiency.

I also compare Thomas to the player taken straight after him, and the one many criticize us for not taking, Xavier Ellis (spelling?), who has a similar body type to Thomas and plays a similar role, but has had more injury problems, although he was carried to a flag also.

Both Thomas and Ellis, and their type of player, will player their best AFL football from about the age of 25 on, due to development and size issues, well that's just my opinion anyway.

Thomas' also won't lose his flashiness, it will and has returned in patches, it's just MM and the coaching staff don't want Dale to be a "one trick pony", and are turning him into a complete player.

I'll defend Daisy every time, even for a no.2 draft pick I believe we have a "ripper" here, who would get a game for any other team in the comp, even now, let alone in the future.

(Sorry for the rant, daisy's one of my favs).

Don't apologise, thats a great rant. I agree with everything you've said.

I truly believe that Daisy is a victim of his own lofty standards. He excited us all that much in his 1st year that we may have gone a touch overboard with our expectations.

I'm expecting a huge 2010 for him. I hope the confidence is instilled in him to once again take games on, do the flashy things that few can do. His defensive imporvement has been exceptional, if he can just get that perfect balance of defense and attack going he'll be almost unstoppable!

 

[Zahki]

I think Dale is a good player for us, it's just frustrating because he always seems on the cusp of jumping from a good player to a great player. Maybe this year will be his year, depends if the coaches give him the opportunity to flourish instead of boxing him away in low profile roles.

 

[loki04]

Found the ball 30 times in a game in his 5th year (1996) .

lol true went off something a commentator said a few years back teach me for not loooking for myself.

Still over his career he didn't break the 30 disposals all that often and was still very effective which was my point.

He ave 20.1 disposals a game over his career.

http://www.stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/J/James_Hird.html#19965

 

[DThomas]

So, basically this thread is arguing that the characteristics for which Dale was drafted have disappeared from his game?

We're basically saying that all the bad characteristics he had have been replaced with good ones. Like instead of trying to snap a goal from the boundary all the time, he will now kick it to a player in a better position.

And great post Matty!

 

[magpiewarrior]

I have only been able to fully watch Sundays game today, but for those that say he doesn't do the flashy things anymore have a look at the third Quarter and watch him do a 'Marty Clarke' toeing the ball up to himself while flat-out and under pressure on the wing. It's the little quick things that he does that so often go unnoticed or unremarked upon, thereby denying him the credit that he deserves.

 

[Bonuspoints]

A good rant Matty and I think the comparisons to Ellis' career are very valid.

Brisbane's Brennan mightn't be a bad comparison too. A fairly light frame and a knack for doing the flashy brilliant stuff. He's been a very up and down player copping the "inconsistent" label and has struggled to find his place in the side until recently. Drafted in 2002 he's been a late developer, but has really hit his straps now. Took him about 5 years to start to pull it together.

Big call on him being inside Collingwood's top 10 by years end, but heres hoping he can elevate his game up to a higher level to achieve that. He's definitely a hard worker, which is one thing most outside supporters don't recognise. I must admit I have my doubts on where his ceiling is, but I'll back our players regardless...Toovey has made me a believer.

 

[herecomesbilly]

i was very surprised we took daisy ahead of ellis at the time, i am not having a go at daisy here i love him as a player and my boys idolise him we watch every gippy power home game and that year ellis was that far ahead of every other player in that side it wasnt funny, i have been involved in junior footy for 35 years and hes the best jnr player i have seen by a mile.

ellis didnt play first year he finished his schooling as far as i know he told all clubs that was going to happen did that influence us? i dont know

i just dont think people realize how good ellis is or will be hes had a bad injury run at the hawks hes played about half the games daisy has, hes basically a year later draft player cos of his year at school and hes had 30plus possesions and could have been norm smith medallist in a afl grand final in what about game 30?

i am just trying to give a pies perspective on ellis rather then a dawks supporter who wouldnt have even new of him until the weeks b4 that draft

i think daisy is coming along nicely

ps another gun down gippy power this year he played all his jnr footy wth my son so ive watched him since under 10s keep this name in your head Dean Mcdonald

 

[DoubleO7]

The only problem I have with Thomas is his lack of goals.