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F1 F1 2024 thread
- Thread starter skam85
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Still stuck in 2017 ??
What makes you think Hamilton (and Alonso for that matter) are anywhere near Max and Charles ??
Except that Lewis has consistently finished behind his own teammate - the fairly ordinary Russell.
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Jatz
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They haven't been running the same packages for large parts of the season though?
I don't recall exactly how many races it's been but I know it's happened at several tracks this year.
For all the Russell is better rhetoric, he still only won the same number of races as Lewis did.
Sonny Hayes
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I wouldn’t say I am backing him in for it, been a while since we have seen him at peak form and jumping in to a new car and performing can be tough.
I will say I think some are being too quick to just write it off, clearly Lewis and the current Mercedes don’t get along. I am not sure that means the days of him being a title threat are done though in the right car.
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I think Lewis still has great drives in him but i am not sure he can have a great season that would compete with Max and Lec in a title fight in roughly = cars
Charles is a level or 2 above Russell though.
Particularly in qualifying, Charles will destroy Lewis and we all know in modern F1 its virtually impossible to win without qualifying in front of your teammate.
Unless of course there is weather around.
Lewis would be 5th on the line of betting at best IMO. Cant see him beating his own teammate let alone Max and the 2 Mclarens.
Again, this isnt peak Hamilton anymore.
Jatz
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No, it certainly isn't peak Hamilton.
Think some might be surprised what a change of scenery could do for him though. He clearly needs a freshen up. Had he stayed with Mercedes, I'd have been the first one suggesting he'd be better off retiring.
Think some might be surprised what a change of scenery could do for him though. He clearly needs a freshen up. Had he stayed with Mercedes, I'd have been the first one suggesting he'd be better off retiring.
I reckon he'll be happier, and a happy Hamilton is a quick one.
But like Gunf, I think whilst capable of great days, you'll need a lot more than that to beat guys like Charles and Max.
When you say they won the same number of races, that's significantly affected by Russell's DSQ at Spa - Russell crossed the line 1st, before being DQed, handing the win to Hamilton. Without the DQ the tally is 3-1 in favour of Russell.
Putting that quirk/controversy aside, here are the head-to-head results for Russell & Hamilton this season:
Ignoring the DNF & DSQ races, the results are 13-5 in favour of Russell. Include the DNFs (but excluding the DQ) and it's 15-6 in Russell's favour.
There may have been a small number of races where Russell benefited from an upgrade which Hamilton's car hadn't yet received. That doesn't go close to explaining a 2.6:1 win/loss ratio in Russell's favour.
Putting that quirk/controversy aside, here are the head-to-head results for Russell & Hamilton this season:
| Russell | Hamilton | |
| Bahrain | 5 | 7 |
| Saudi Arabia | 6 | 9 |
| Australia | 17 | DNF |
| Japan | 7 | 9 |
| China | 6 | 9 |
| Miami | 8 | 6 |
| Emilia Romania | 7 | 6 |
| Monaco | 5 | 7 |
| Canada | 3 | 4 |
| Austria | 1 | 4 |
| Great Britain | DNF | 1 |
| Hungary | 8 | 3 |
| Belgium | DSQ | 1 |
| Netherlands | 7 | 8 |
| Italy | 7 | 5 |
| Azerbaijan | 3 | 9 |
| Singapore | 4 | 6 |
| USA | 6 | DNF |
| Mexico | 5 | 4 |
| Brazil | 4 | 10 |
| Las Vegas | 1 | 2 |
| Qatar | 4 | 12 |
Ignoring the DNF & DSQ races, the results are 13-5 in favour of Russell. Include the DNFs (but excluding the DQ) and it's 15-6 in Russell's favour.
There may have been a small number of races where Russell benefited from an upgrade which Hamilton's car hadn't yet received. That doesn't go close to explaining a 2.6:1 win/loss ratio in Russell's favour.
When was peak Hamilton btw?
Id say he was at his best between 2015-2020.
2021 shattered him and he's not quite been the same since.
He was pretty consistent through all of his World Champion years. He won 10 or 11 races in 6 of those 7 years. I'd say he peaked in 2018/2019, but he also had similar results in 2014/2015.
He's clearly in decline now, but he was at the very top of the tree for a long time - and he maintained his high standard for the duration of that period.
Jatz
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The DSQ isn't a quirk or controversy, he was correctly disqualified. While unfortunate, it was the correct decision.
No arguments Russell has had the better season, I just genuinely believe there's valid reasons as to why. Ultimately Lewis wasn't qualifying well enough and that put him behind the 8 ball from the start.
It actually wasn't the upgrades in the traditional sense - late in the season, George benefitted from reverting back to the older spec (I could be wrong on this but I remember hearing it was the spec initially introduced in Miami), rather than the new upgrades.
Lewis Hamilton’s W15 data shows clear difference to Russell's alt-spec Mercedes
Lewis Hamilton edged out George Russell in the Mexican GP race after a tight but fair battle between the two Mercedes drivers.
www.planetf1.com
Throw in the fact that both drivers have said it's the most inconsistent (ie rubbish) car that Mercedes have produced, I think it's worth waiting a season before writing Lewis off.
The DQ was definitely a quirk. It was a correct application of the rules, and I have no argument with it - but it does significantly alter the head-to-head results. If he wasn't DQed then Russell has 3 wins to Hamilton's 1, but with the DQ it's 2-2.The DSQ isn't a quirk or controversy, he was correctly disqualified. While unfortunate, it was the correct decision.
No arguments Russell has had the better season, I just genuinely believe there's valid reasons as to why. Ultimately Lewis wasn't qualifying well enough and that put him behind the 8 ball from the start.
It actually wasn't the upgrades in the traditional sense - late in the season, George benefitted from reverting back to the older spec (I could be wrong on this but I remember hearing it was the spec initially introduced in Miami), rather than the new upgrades.
Lewis Hamilton’s W15 data shows clear difference to Russell's alt-spec Mercedes
Lewis Hamilton edged out George Russell in the Mexican GP race after a tight but fair battle between the two Mercedes drivers.
Throw in the fact that both drivers have said it's the most inconsistent (ie rubbish) car that Mercedes have produced, I think it's worth waiting a season before writing Lewis off.
The overall picture shows that Russell was dominant all season - not just in the latter parts of the season where they were (sometimes) driving different spec cars. In the first 10 races (to Austria), Russell won the head-to-head 7-2 (plus 1 Hamilton DNF).
Russell's dominance lasted the whole season, not just occasional races where upgrades or different spec floors were at play. He dominated Hamilton from the first race in Bahrain onwards.
I agree that the 2024 Mercedes was inconsistent - but Russell has clearly been the superior driver in the inconsistent machinery. There is simply no case for suggesting that Hamilton has been his equal, let alone superior, this season. Hamilton hasn't had his pants pulled down around his ankles, the way Perez has, but he's clearly been dominated by his own teammate all season.
He's still a spring chicken compared to Alonso... mind you, nobody is talking about Alonso potentially winning another World Drivers Championship.
Jatz
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The hypotheticals are pointless. He was DQ'ed, that's all there is to it. It's like me saying "if Lewis qualified better, the H2H record could've been even". Well yes, that's true. It didn't happen though and therefore it's irrelevant.
The overall picture shows a pretty useless car (outside of a purple patch in the middle of the year) that George got more out of. At the conclusion of the Austrian GP, Russell had an average finishing position of 6.5 (it's 7.1 if you stop that before his race win there).
Put it this way - do you think Russell will finish above Lewis next year?
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There's a distinct possibility
I think Russell would finish ahead of Lewis if they were in equal machinery. However, I think the 2025 Ferrari will be a much better car than the 2025 Mercedes, as were the 2024 models. I think Hamilton will finish ahead of Russell by virtue of this machinery disparity - not because of him being a better driver.
I think Hamilton will be well beaten by LeClerc, and it won't be close.
He's hanging on for another one, but he's a bit delusional i think.
He does have the advantage of Adrian Newey aerodynamics, but the benefit from that will only really be felt with the 2026 car. But yeah... it's delusional.
Barrybran
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I really hope Leclerc has the edge over Hamilton next year. Sky is going to be unbearable at the start of next season let alone if Hamilton is fighting for a championship.
That said, Hamilton is still an excellent driver and will win some races. He might even be an early favourite for the championship in better machinery. We all saw what Alonso did when Aston Martin had a decent car so I gave no doubt Hamilton will be near the pointy end himself.
That said, Hamilton is still an excellent driver and will win some races. He might even be an early favourite for the championship in better machinery. We all saw what Alonso did when Aston Martin had a decent car so I gave no doubt Hamilton will be near the pointy end himself.
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