Society/Culture Feminism - 2016 Thread

[Chief]

Bloody journos.


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[Brunswick Trap King]

Yeah, it sounds as if the guy was pretty heavily autistic and had been trying to high-5 people. Pretty awkward situation.


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[Chief]

In the old days there would have been a minor fuss, the girl would have found out the guy was harmless, move on.

You can't blame people for using what little power they have via social media but journos tell us they know better.


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[Run n Spread]

She's more than welcome to not wear it.

The issue is a large proportion of people who reject the islamic religion also believe asians were taking the jobs, aboriginals are whingers and halal certification is a tool of the new jewish world order.

No she isn't. It is a Legal requirement. Hence she is not going.

 

[fleabitten]

In the old days there would have been a minor fuss, the girl would have found out the guy was harmless, move on.

You can't blame people for using what little power they have via social media but journos tell us they know better.

What do you mean by this? I think we can quite easily blame this woman for her actions. And we can blame "journalists" for running with stories based entirely on unverified social media accounts. And we can blame the thousands who instantly took her word for it and threatened violence. Even the sheep who were falling over themselves to tell her how great she is for what she did deserve condemnation.

This was a pretty extreme example, but this kind of thing seems to be happening quite a lot these days (not just in relation to feminist issues, but across the board). Scary stuff, really. It seems the more easily accessible news and information becomes, the less people care about what's actually true.

 

[Chief]

What did she do that was specifically, morally wrong? Sure she might have been a bit quick on the draw but is she then to blame for online threats? Come on. And just how far beyond "I'll kick his ass" posts did it get towards actual head kicking? Not at all I bet.

Yeah, get the facts before you post but journos shouldn't perpetuate this - it's their job to get the facts right.

She should apologize and she has removed the posts hasn't she?

Like I said, I find it hard to blame the powerless for using things like social media. If things go pear-shaped then they should definitely take the consequences.

Journos trade off the fact they "know better" but rarely take consequences.

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[fleabitten]

What did she do that was specifically, morally wrong?

Um, take a photo of an autistic man, post it on her public facebook page and accuse him of being a sexual predator?

And why do you keep calling her powerless?

 

[Chief]

Um, take a photo of an autistic man, post it on her public facebook page and accuse him of being a sexual predator?

And why do you keep calling her powerless?

Did she know he was disabled? No.

Does she own a newspaper? No.

If that guy had gotten violent could she have stopped him? No.

Do women have to adopt strategies, change their movements, their dress, to avoid aggressive blokes? Yes.

That's the sort of stuff I am talking about when I say "powerless".

So yeah, it was over the top like lots of these things but it's more a symptom than the actual disease.


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[fleabitten]

Did she know he was disabled? No.

She probably didn't know he was disabled, but even if he wasn't, how is it not immoral to make up a story about someone, take their picture and publish it online accompanied by all kinds of horrible accusations and insults?

Does she own a newspaper? No.

What has owning a newspaper got to do with it? The Daily Mail article is just a ridiculous post script to the story. The damage was done on facebook where she had complete control of the message.

If that guy had gotten violent could she have stopped him? No.

There is no suggestion from anybody else that the man might have gotten violent. Other commuters did not describe him like this woman did. She projected a bunch of stuff onto him. If anyone thought he was dangerous, they could have notified the driver, called the police, or whatever. No-one else on the tram seemed to consider him a threat.

Do women have to adopt strategies, change their movements, their dress, to avoid aggressive blokes? Yes.

What has that got to do with this woman slandering somebody in order to draw attention to herself?

That's the sort of stuff I am talking about when I say "powerless".

She appears to be the one wielding all the power here. Within 24 hours, she'd whipped tens of thousands of people into a frenzy and had her lies published in a foreign newspaper. I saw her facebook page (it's now either hidden or deleted) at the height of the insanity and she seemed to be doing alright in life. White middle class feminist raging over how unfair the world is for her.

So yeah, it was over the top like lots of these things but it's more a symptom than the actual disease.

I would say we agree here, but I suspect you don't think the disease in question is feminist misandry.

 

[Chief]

She probably didn't know he was disabled, but even if he wasn't, how is it not immoral to make up a story about someone, take their picture and publish it online accompanied by all kinds of horrible accusations and insults?

She didn't make it up, far as I know.

What has owning a newspaper got to do with it? The Daily Mail article is just a ridiculous post script to the story. The damage was done on facebook where she had complete control of the message.

Yes - social media can be an outlet for people with little or no other power to tell their story.

There is no suggestion from anybody else that the man might have gotten violent. Other commuters did not describe him like this woman did. She projected a bunch of stuff onto him. If anyone thought he was dangerous, they could have notified the driver, called the police, or whatever. No-one else on the tram seemed to consider him a threat.

You interviewed them all?

What has that got to do with this woman slandering somebody in order to draw attention to herself?

So she's gettin' all uppity?

How was it slander? She got upset about what she thought she was seeing.

She appears to be the one wielding all the power here. Within 24 hours, she'd whipped tens of thousands of people into a frenzy and had her lies published in a foreign newspaper. I saw her facebook page (it's now either hidden or deleted) at the height of the insanity and she seemed to be doing alright in life. White middle class feminist raging over how unfair the world is for her.

How did she "have" something published in the newspaper? 10's of thousands of people in a frenzy? You said 13,000 shares in your post. They and ALL their friends were in a frenzy? How do you describe a frenzy? How does sharing a post on Facebook show that one is in a frenzy, i.e. "uncontrolled excitement and wild behaviour"?

Is she middle class? I dunno.

Why are you whipping up hate for her over a mistake anyone could have made, and which she obviously recognises now as a mistake? Sounds like you're in your own frenzy.

I would say we agree here, but I suspect you don't think the disease in question is feminist misandry.

No I don't. How is feminist misandry different to your run of the mill misandry?

Does this girl hate all men? Are you slandering her by saying that she does? Shouldn't you be more careful about what you say about people or are you taking one Facebook post to represent her entire world view?

 

[fleabitten]

She didn't make it up, far as I know.

Okay. So you're happy for people to publicly accuse people of a crime and post their image with no evidence whatsoever.

Yes - social media can be an outlet for people with little or no other power to tell their story.

Sure. how is that applicable in this case?

You interviewed them all?

No, but not one person has come forward to support what she said. Quite the opposite.

So she's gettin' all uppity?

Dumb, even for you.

How was it slander? She got upset about what she thought she was seeing.

And took a picture of an autistic man, claimed he was a sexual predator, called him a festering turd and published this in a public forum.

How did she "have" something published in the newspaper? 10's of thousands of people in a frenzy? You said 13,000 shares in your post. They and ALL their friends were in a frenzy? How do you describe a frenzy? How does sharing a post on Facebook show that one is in a frenzy, i.e. "uncontrolled excitement and wild behaviour"?

LOL. What are you on about? The man's mother was receiving death threats as thousands of people spoke of how they would "smash the campaigner" if they saw him. If you don't want to call it a frenzy, fine. Pick a word for it. Her lies caused many, many people to want to harm a disabled man.

Is she middle class? I dunno.

Why are you whipping up hate for her over a mistake anyone could have made, and which she obviously recognises now as a mistake? Sounds like you're in your own frenzy.

Yeah, mate. I'm all in a frenzy

Anyone bringing up any issue that Chief and co can't defend, that person must be in some kind of irrational mind state or spending all their time looking for something to be outraged about.

No I don't. How is feminist misandry different to your run of the mill misandry?

feminist - advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men
misandry - dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men

Can't tell the difference, Chief? I'm surprised at you.

Does this girl hate all men? Are you slandering her by saying that she does? Shouldn't you be more careful about what you say about people or are you taking one Facebook post to represent her entire world view?

I wonder what your response to this would look like if, instead of assuming this autistic man was a sexual predator, she'd assumed he was a terrorist (he looked like he could be Middle Eastern). Somehow doubt you'd be bothering to come to her defense.

 

[LFTWNG11]

Did she know he was disabled? No.

Does she own a newspaper? No.

If that guy had gotten violent could she have stopped him? No.

Do women have to adopt strategies, change their movements, their dress, to avoid aggressive blokes? Yes.

That's the sort of stuff I am talking about when I say "powerless".

So yeah, it was over the top like lots of these things but it's more a symptom than the actual disease.


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It's crazy that you are trying to defend the indefensible. Mind-boggling even. What gets lost when you try to defend an attention-seeking lunatic like this, is what must the the actual victim in this (the disabled man) and their family feel like? I am a part-time carer for a disabled family member and if there were comments all over social media about him as their was for this disabled man; I imagine it would be harrowing and somewhat scary to think about.

 

[Chief]

It's crazy that you are trying to defend the indefensible. Mind-boggling even. What gets lost when you try to defend an attention-seeking lunatic like this, is what must the the actual victim in this (the disabled man) and their family feel like? I am a part-time carer for a disabled family member and if there were comments all over social media about him as their was for this disabled man; I imagine it would be harrowing and somewhat scary to think about.

No, I've said she was over the top and should apologise.

 

[LFTWNG11]

No, I've said she was over the top and should apologise.

BUT with a massive list of excuses for why she did it to conflate the issue.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Has anyone questioned whether or not she herself was drunk, or under the influence of drugs, at the time of said occurrence?....Sounds to me like her judgement was impaired & she's lept to conclusions, coming off a downer.

But yes....We can't have vigilante groups acting as lynch-mobs, patrolling the streets, acting all white-knight enabled n all....Internet social-chat-site tribalism gone hay-wire.

We have a system of law in place do deal with such things....Women crying rape & blokes being strung-up for it immediately, are a thing of the past, surely.

 

[Chief]

Okay. So you're happy for people to publicly accuse people of a crime and post their image with no evidence whatsoever.

No, I've said it was over the top. I've said she should apologise.

Read my posts properly without that veil of "oppressed male rage".

Sure. how is that applicable in this case?

Doin' the obtuse shuffle...

No, but not one person has come forward to support what she said. Quite the opposite.

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence?

Dumb, even for you.

No, just pointing out what it looks like you're saying. Or have I misunderstood your "all feminists hate men, here's another example" bit?

And took a picture of an autistic man, claimed he was a sexual predator, called him a festering turd and published this in a public forum.

Did she KNOW he was Autistic or whatever? Prove it.

LOL. What are you on about? The man's mother was receiving death threats as thousands of people spoke of how they would "smash the campaigner" if they saw him. If you don't want to call it a frenzy, fine. Pick a word for it. Her lies caused many, many people to want to harm a disabled man.

And she should apologise. But I don't blame her instincts in using what she has to share her story. Not at all.

Yeah, mate. I'm all in a frenzy

You were the one that defined frenzy as "sharing a social media post". Or are you talking about posting angry about something?

Either way you're doing it now.

Anyone bringing up any issue that Chief and co can't defend, that person must be in some kind of irrational mind state or spending all their time looking for something to be outraged about.

You kind of are mate.

feminist - advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men
misandry - dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men

Can't tell the difference, Chief? I'm surprised at you.

Explain it to me mate. I can't read your mind.

I wonder what your response to this would look like if, instead of assuming this autistic man was a sexual predator, she'd assumed he was a terrorist (he looked like he could be Middle Eastern). Somehow doubt you'd be bothering to come to her defense.

It depends on the circumstances, doesn't it?

I'm not defending what she did - in relation to what the facts have turned out to be. But "blame" and "consequences" are different things.

I don't blame her for using the tools at her disposal to try to set something right that she thought was wrong.

She has deleted the posts. She should apologise. Accept the consequences for what she did.

(Now lets watch you take exception to EVERY BIT of this post EXCEPT the bit where I said she was wrong and should apologise and take the consequences.)

 

[Chief]

BUT with a massive list of excuses for why she did it to conflate the issue.

Conflate the issue?

Man.

Conflate: combine (two or more sets of information, texts, ideas, etc.) into one.

I'm actually doing the opposite.

 

[LFTWNG11]

Conflate the issue?

Man.

Conflate: combine (two or more sets of information, texts, ideas, etc.) into one.

I'm actually doing the opposite.

Maybe I used the wrong word...

She didn't know she was autistic, she is allowed to post her outrage (attention seeking) on Social media because she has "no power", its not her fault the journo's ran with the story. Essentially it is societies fault (probably the patriarchy in particular) for her perceptions, which makes it understandable for her feminist rage to result in death threats for an innocent disabled man. Is there a particular word for that?

 

[fleabitten]

No, I've said it was over the top. I've said she should apologise.

Read my posts properly without that veil of "oppressed male rage".

Lol. What? Stop being a dickhead, Chief.

Doin' the obtuse shuffle...

See above.

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence?

See above.

No, just pointing out what it looks like you're saying. Or have I misunderstood your "all feminists hate men, here's another example" bit?

Yep, it appears you have.

Did she KNOW he was Autistic or whatever? Prove it.

He wasn't doing what she accused him of doing. Whether he was autistic or not, he was an innocent man. Even in her account, he didn't touch anybody or say anything offensive to anybody.

And she should apologise. But I don't blame her instincts in using what she has to share her story. Not at all.

Her story? You mean the story about how she harassed an autistic man and put his life in danger?

You were the one that defined frenzy as "sharing a social media post". Or are you talking about posting angry about something?

Either way you're doing it now.

When I think of a "frenzy", I think of something like a school of piranhas feeding on an animal and that's kind of what it was like. A woman I went to school with shared the post that night and I spent an hour or so just watching it going viral. The hatred and threats directed at the man were incredible.

Believe it or not, I'm rarely feeling much of any emotion when I post on big footy (except when I unleash my inner feral on the Tigers board), let alone whatever you're picturing me being like.

You kind of are mate.

OK, Chief. If you say so.

Explain it to me mate. I can't read your mind.

Not all people who hate men are feminists. Not all feminists hate men. Can you stop playing dumb now?

It depends on the circumstances, doesn't it?

I'm not defending what she did - in relation to what the facts have turned out to be. But "blame" and "consequences" are different things.

I don't blame her for using the tools at her disposal to try to set something right that she thought was wrong.

Well, you're part of the problem. She had other tools at her disposal, like notifying the driver or calling the police. She chose trial by social media while providing zero evidence. How was that choice going to "set something right"? What do you think she hoped would happen?

She has deleted the posts. She should apologise. Accept the consequences for what she did.

(Now lets watch you take exception to EVERY BIT of this post EXCEPT the bit where I said she was wrong and should apologise and take the consequences.)

LOL. So she was wrong, should apologise and there should be consequences. So wtf is your problem with anything I've said?

 

[Chief]

Lol. What? Stop being a dickhead, Chief.

Read the posts you ******* twit.

Yep, it appears you have.

I don't think I have.

He wasn't doing what she accused him of doing. Whether he was autistic or not, he was an innocent man. Even in her account, he didn't touch anybody or say anything offensive to anybody.

He was in the face of a girl and making her uncomfortable.

You've said you'd job any campaigner who did that to you or your family.

What is the difference here? Explain it, because I can't see it.

Her story? You mean the story about how she harassed an autistic man and put his life in danger?

When I think of a "frenzy", I think of something like a school of piranhas feeding on an animal and that's kind of what it was like. A woman I went to school with shared the post that night and I spent an hour or so just watching it going viral. The hatred and threats directed at the man were incredible.

Yes and that is s**t - she shouldn't have done what she did. She deleted the posts. She should apologise.

Believe it or not, I'm rarely feeling much of any emotion when I post on big footy (except when I unleash my inner feral on the Tigers board), let alone whatever you're picturing me being like.

Like when you ranted about smashing anyone who looked at your family the wrong way?

Not all people who hate men are feminists. Not all feminists hate men. Can you stop playing dumb now?

I'm playing dumb? FFS. Just answer the question.

What is "feminist misandry"? Women wanting equality with the men they hate?

Well, you're part of the problem. She had other tools at her disposal, like notifying the driver or calling the police. She chose trial by social media while providing zero evidence. How was that choice going to "set something right"? What do you think she hoped would happen?

I see. She planned to solicit death threats. She should be in marketing with such pin-point accuracy and instant social media reach.

LOL. So she was wrong, should apologise and there should be consequences. So wtf is your problem with anything I've said?

You think she is morally reprehensible, I don't. You think she is some man-hating femmo bitch. I don't.

Maybe I used the wrong word...

She didn't know she was autistic, she is allowed to post her outrage (attention seeking) on Social media because she has "no power", its not her fault the journo's ran with the story. Essentially it is societies fault (probably the patriarchy in particular) for her perceptions, which makes it understandable for her feminist rage to result in death threats for an innocent disabled man. Is there a particular word for that?

This is the thing. Any expression like this (by a woman) is just attention seeking. She just wants to cause a stir for the sake of causing a stir. There is, therefore, no merit in what she actually says or thinks.

I've got no problem with people posting this sort of thing, but in this case she hasn't gotten her facts right. Delete the posts and apologise. Move the * on.


Hey fleabitten what did you hope would happen by posting this up? Was it attention seeking? Meninist mysogyny? Were you hoping we'd pile on the hate? What was it? If someone read your post then went and threatened her with death based on what you said, would you feel guilty about it?

 

[Chief]

More importantly are we still going to play online D&D?

 

[BORK]

fleabitten do not bother. Chief has never viewed women as being close to the equals of men or ever respected their agency. If you observe his postings on this site you would see that he views adult women in the way the law views a nine year old child as incapable of being properly responsible or culpable for their actions.

For others in here compare his view on this to that of the QUT guys being sued in the 18C thread.
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-is-doing-as-well-as-can-be-expected.1143490/

On top of that anyone who sees a post about a story of a little boy being tortured to death by a woman, quotes the post and writes the following is an utterly terrible individual.

What is linking to every newspaper report doing for the discussion?

"Mewmewmewmew women abuse too!"

Considering his position on this site it is an utter embarrassment reading the crap he posts.

 

[fleabitten]

Read the posts you ******* twit.

Calm down, Chief. Now where do I need to look in my own posts to see my "veil of oppressed male rage".

He was in the face of a girl and making her uncomfortable.

You've said you'd job any campaigner who did that to you or your family.

What is the difference here? Explain it, because I can't see it.

I was talking about the dickheads dressed as clowns that have been spotted in my neighbourhood carrying hammers, knives and bats and trying to scare people. Not an autistic guy who doesn't understand social norms standing too close while he asks for a high five.

I'm playing dumb? FFS. Just answer the question.

What is "feminist misandry"? Women wanting equality with the men they hate?

It's a term I just used to describe this feminist who appears to hate men. It's also such a minor part of this whole discussion that you're looking like a complete tool for fixating on it and making out like it's important for us to settle on a definition.

I see. She planned to solicit death threats. She should be in marketing with such pin-point accuracy and instant social media reach.

What do you think she was hoping to achieve, Chief? Take a few deep breaths, and once you've stopped trembling, tell me what you think she could have been hoping to achieve.

You think she is morally reprehensible, I don't. You think she is some man-hating femmo bitch. I don't.

I think what she did is clearly morally reprehensible. She's the one who labeled herself a feminist. I never called her a bitch.

This is the thing. Any expression like this (by a woman) is just attention seeking. She just wants to cause a stir for the sake of causing a stir. There is, therefore, no merit in what she actually says or thinks.

I've got no problem with people posting this sort of thing, but in this case she hasn't gotten her facts right. Delete the posts and apologise. Move the **** on.

I said in the first post that if he'd actually done what she said he'd done, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. Not really the best way to go about it, but if he really was how she'd described him, then I wouldn't waste any sympathy on him. My problem with it is that she was wrong. Same as you.

Hey fleabitten what did you hope would happen by posting this up? Was it attention seeking? Meninist mysogyny? Were you hoping we'd pile on the hate? What was it? If someone read your post then went and threatened her with death based on what you said, would you feel guilty about it?

Same as with anything that anyone posts, Chief. It's a discussion board and I thought it was something to discuss. On topic and all. I didn't name anybody (can't remember if she was named in the article, but I think not), so your death threat scenario is just more silliness from you.

 

[fleabitten]

More importantly are we still going to play online D&D?

Would love to but unlikely to have the time. My first bepenised child is due any day now and I expect I'll have my hands full protecting him from all the oppression.

 

[Chief]

I was talking about the dickheads dressed as clowns that have been spotted in my neighbourhood carrying hammers, knives and bats and trying to scare people. Not an autistic guy who doesn't understand social norms standing too close while he asks for a high five.

How do you know none of those clowns is autistic?

"I will break the face of any clown that comes too close to me and mine." - Sounds pretty definite. Clowns of all races, with or without fake weapons.