Fitzgibbon: ALP could split in the next 20 years

[Caesar]

Labor frontbencher warns his party could become so divided, it splits

Federal Labor frontbencher Joel Fitzgibbon warns his party could split in two, arguing it is struggling to be "all things to all people".

mobile.abc.net.au

 

[Gough]

Maybe they need a coalition partner to govern? As he pointed out, the LNP get to say one thing in one place and something entirely different in another because they're two separate parties. He has a valid point.

 

[Caesar]

I think it would be good for rural and regional communities to have another major party challenging the Nationals.

In NSW, the ‘Country Labor Party’ has been a separately registered party for many years. It has never amounted to much more than a branding exercise, but the success of the SFF in 2019 may cause a rethink.

It may also precipitate a more general realignment across the spectrum, which would be interesting.

 

[NSWCROW]

I can't see anyway around it.

They could try installing a leader from Qld but it looks like that won't happen until after the next election and it may not make any difference anyway.

 

[Hoops]

Didn't Fitzgibbons say that $250,000 a year isn't much money? Yeah, he is all about the working class.

 

[Caesar]

Didn't Fitzgibbons say that $250,000 a year isn't much money? Yeah, he is all about the working class.

He’s the convenor of the Right faction, so when he talks about the prospects of a party split it carries some weight.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

eh I guess they could do a proper Country Labour party branding thing. Ole Fitzy doesn't have much to say that doesn't directly relate to him being s**t scared about the swing against him at the last election. Maybe he should keep his rubbish to the local paper though. Or go with social media shitbaggery like some country libs/Nats, maybe have a go at some QAnon stuff.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

eh I guess they could do a proper Country Labour party branding thing. Ole Fitzy doesn't have much to say that doesn't directly relate to him being sh*t scared about the swing against him at the last election. Maybe he should keep his rubbish to the local paper though. Or go with social media shitbaggery like some country libs/Nats, maybe have a go at some QAnon stuff.

I actually don't mind him coming out with this, it's stating the obvious

I align (unofficially) with the right of the party, but it's pretty clear we have a divide internally between the right (which is both unions and punters), the left wing unions, and the left wing progressives.

The three groups either need to find a way to get on the same page and accept their differences and compromise , or split and move on.

Stuff like Adani (right want it for the jobs, left oppose it for the environment) just causes the party to be easy pickings for the libs

 

[wahooo]

He’s the convenor of the Right faction, so when he talks about the prospects of a party split it carries some weight.

Hardly, it's a mere musing about the future of the party a whopping 20-30 years down the track.

It's much more likely that in that 20-30 years we reach consensus on the issue of climate change and it's no longer an issue that divides the left and right faction of the Labor Party.

But seriously, Labor have a shocking ability to attract unnecessary and unwarranted attention about complete non-issues, how they do it is beyond me.

 

[Caesar]

Hardly, it's a mere musing about the future of the party a whopping 20-30 years down the track.

Of course, it is highly speculative. However when the convenor of a major faction is talking like this, it speaks to pretty real and significant fissures within the party.

It's much more likely that in that 20-30 years we reach consensus on the issue of climate change and it's no longer an issue that divides the left and right faction of the Labor Party.

I think it's a bit simplistic to put the tension down solely to a disagreement on climate change. The ALP's voter base has been fragmenting and diverging for the better part of 30 years. Devising a policy platform that squares those interests in a manner sufficient to garner 76 seats in the HoR has proved increasingly difficult, on a number of fronts.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Didn't Fitzgibbons say that $250,000 a year isn't much money? Yeah, he is all about the working class.

Of well known Labor parliamentarians, Fitzgibbon's struck me as the dumbest. Kind of person who thinks they're smarter than they are because private school, middle class upbringing. Unathletic Chris Judd.

 

[wahooo]

Of course, it is highly speculative. However when the convenor of a major faction is talking like this, it speaks to pretty real and significant fissures within the party.


I think it's a bit simplistic to put the tension down solely to a disagreement on climate change. The ALP's voter base has been fragmenting and diverging for the better part of 30 years. Devising a policy platform that squares those interests in a manner sufficient to garner 76 seats in the HoR has proved increasingly difficult, on a number of fronts.

You're right, I don't deny that significant fissures exist in the Labor party but a split is certainly not on the cards. If anything it's an attempt by Fitzgibbons to try and sway the debate in his favour.

Yeah it's definitely simplistic to put it solely down to climate change but that's surely the major issue that Fitzgibbons was alluding to in his comments when he spoke of the party stretching itself to appeal to voters in Batman and central Queensland. Albo's response is a fairly good indicator that Climate Change is the main issue of contention, coupled with Fitzgibbons' harsh rebuke of Labor's climate change policy in the last election, I think it's safe to assume that's what he's alluding to. I think, at least in Fitzgibbons' view, that it really is that simple.

In my view the party is going through a battle as it re-defines its identity. The party is trying to decide how they can best champion the rights of workers in the 21st century in the face of climate change and an increasingly dynamic workplace. The issues within the Labor party pale in comparison to those within the Coalition, it just so happens that there's a significant segment of the media that chooses to ignore the Coalition's issues and shine a big hurter spotlight on Labor's issues. I mean at least Labor's issues can be characterised as a debate about policy, the Coalition's issues extend to corruption, scandal, instability and a complete vacuum of policy.

 

[Caesar]

The issues within the Labor party pale in comparison to those within the Coalition, it just so happens that there's a significant segment of the media that chooses to ignore the Coalition's issues and shine a big hurter spotlight on Labor's issues.

That is just the nature of politics in Australia. Since the days of Chris Watson, the ALP has been the ideological behemoth that has defined the political landscape. Their strength or weakness has always defined the success or otherwise of the other side of politics.

The Coalition is, after all, just a mishmash of people whose interests are marginalised by the ALP.

I mean at least Labor's issues can be characterised as a debate about policy, the Coalition's issues extend to corruption, scandal, instability and a complete vacuum of policy.

I don't think either side of politics has much of a mortgage on corruption, scandal and instability.

But to a large extent the Coalition cannot have meaningful internal debates on big policy issues, because Labor's agenda mostly defines the space that the Coalition needs to occupy.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

You're right, I don't deny that significant fissures exist in the Labor party but a split is certainly not on the cards. If anything it's an attempt by Fitzgibbons to try and sway the debate in his favour.

Yeah it's definitely simplistic to put it solely down to climate change but that's surely the major issue that Fitzgibbons was alluding to in his comments when he spoke of the party stretching itself to appeal to voters in Batman and central Queensland. Albo's response is a fairly good indicator that Climate Change is the main issue of contention, coupled with Fitzgibbons' harsh rebuke of Labor's climate change policy in the last election, I think it's safe to assume that's what he's alluding to. I think, at least in Fitzgibbons' view, that it really is that simple.

In my view the party is going through a battle as it re-defines its identity. The party is trying to decide how they can best champion the rights of workers in the 21st century in the face of climate change and an increasingly dynamic workplace. The issues within the Labor party pale in comparison to those within the Coalition, it just so happens that there's a significant segment of the media that chooses to ignore the Coalition's issues and shine a big hurter spotlight on Labor's issues. I mean at least Labor's issues can be characterised as a debate about policy, the Coalition's issues extend to corruption, scandal, instability and a complete vacuum of policy.

Is Labor really losing votes to the Coalition for treating climate change like it means something? I think there's a lot of concern trolling from people who are never going to vote Labor.

To the extent "I'd vote Labor BUT" voters are real in shithole little towns, climate change and mining have become politically correct cover for their dislike of gays, trans and indigenous peoples.

 

[Caesar]

Is Labor really losing votes to the Coalition for treating climate change like it means something?

Of course. Did you not see the results in Queensland and NSW coal country at last year's election? Rightly or wrongly, Labor's climate policy was seen as a danger to jobs and economic security in those regions.

That is not to say that I think the ALP should abandon their climate policy. But if they don't, they need to find a different way to make the numbers add up to 76. Hoping that maybe in three years people will feel differently is not good political strategy.

To the extent "I'd vote Labor BUT" voters are real in shithole little towns, climate change and mining have become politically correct cover for their dislike of gays, trans and indigenous peoples.

If your theory is that these voters have always not voted for Labor and are now just using a different excuse, how do you explain the ALP's vote going backwards at a rate of knots in coal mining regions at the last election?

Many of those lost seats were winnable for the ALP, and others like Fitzgibbon's went from ludicrously safe to quite marginal.

Maybe the ALP is better off without those votes, but they have to be replaced somewhere - and not just in inner-city Melbourne.

 

[NSWCROW]

That is not to say that I think the ALP should abandon their climate policy. But if they don't, they need to find a different way to make the numbers add up to 76. Hoping that maybe in three years people will feel differently is not good political strategy.

3 word slogans

 

[Gough]

3 word slogans

Bill Shorten should have pretended to be a fireman as well, apparently that's great training to be PM.

 

[Kram]

Bill Shorten should have pretended to be a fireman as well, apparently that's great training to be PM.

Bill Shorten out in the real would be afraid to confront a couple of spiders let alone a raging bushfire.

 

[Caesar]

I dunno, wasn't Shorten quite a good sabreur at boarding school? That spider should probably fear his flèche.

 

[hamohawk1]

Feel like country towns (outside of your regional centres) are dying anyway, and aren't worth the political struggle. They'll probably continue to vote for the nationals, and get screwed over for 50 + years to come.

 

[Vindicater]

Ahhh Fitzgibben.

The guy who wanted to join the young liberals but was too stupid to realise he showed up to a young labor meeting.

 

[wahooo]

Interesting comments here from Bandt, directly weighs in on Fitzgibbon's comments from the other day (about midway through the article)

Australian Greens want power-sharing agreement with Labor if there's a hung parliament

Adam Bandt warns the ALP’s current public dispute over climate policy only helps the Coalition

www.theguardian.com

 

[Caesar]

Interesting comments here from Bandt, directly weighs in on Fitzgibbon's comments from the other day (about midway through the article)

Australian Greens want power-sharing agreement with Labor if there's a hung parliament

Adam Bandt warns the ALP’s current public dispute over climate policy only helps the Coalition

www.theguardian.com

lol. How about he wins a second seat before he starts worrying about power sharing.

 

[Kram]

Labor need to distance themselves further from the loons.

 

[wahooo]

lol. How about he wins a second seat before he starts worrying about power sharing.

That's one way to ignore the valid points Bandt raised about the disputes in the Labor party, good on you.

The Greens did garner 10% of first preference votes in the house at the last election (nationally).

The National party only got 5% of first preference votes (when you round up) yet ended up with 10 seats, oh the wonders of preferential voting. Maybe you should direct this advice towards the National Party, they could certainly do with increasing their primary vote.