Fitzroy - Did they have Rivals?

[The Devils Advocate]

Such a beautiful football moment in the heavy rain.

Essendon had gone back to back premierships and the chance of three in a row ends here...

Haha that's an amazing clip, thank you - had me reminiscing. My first ever game I saw was Essendon vs Fitzroy at North Hobart. Paul Salmon high fived me and gave me a wink as he was going down the race at half-time. He was the only one that could reach. I fell in love with Essendon that day, Mum said I didn't stop talking about Paul Salmon for about a month.

 

[timokane]

Collingwood is all i can think of.
Ill also maybe say Carlton as well but apart from that not much.

 

[raymond35]

Such a beautiful football moment in the heavy rain.

Essendon had gone back to back premierships and the chance of three in a row ends here...

I was at the game, and remember the Fitzroy members area going berserk when the siren went.
Was a stinker of a day, never stopped raining.
Also, was when Fitzroy were about to move to Brisbane and were fighting for survival.

 

[footyfan1978]

Such a fantastic day of footy history.
Atmosphere in rooms looked wonderful.

 

[Gw2_James]

Where was Fitzroy ranked in terms of popularity back then? We're they a big club with lots of supporters like Collingwood's/richmonds/carltons etc?

 

[footyfan1978]

Where was Fitzroy ranked in terms of popularity back then? We're they a big club with lots of supporters like Collingwood's/richmonds/carltons etc?

I suspect 100 years ago they would have been well followed.
By time I went to school in 80's I struggle to remember a Fitzroy supporter in my class.

 

[Paul Kersey]

I suspect 100 years ago they would have been well followed.
By time I went to school in 80's I struggle to remember a Fitzroy supporter in my class.

Still got the Fitzroy guersney my grandfather gave me as a young kid. Got it around 80-81. Sly dog tried a few times to get me to follow them. Haha. Never knew any kids in school that followed them and my father’s side was Hawthorn. Grandfather switched to North after Fitzroy were shafted.

 

[Leon]

One thing I have never understood is why Bernie Quinlan and Garry Wilson rarely receive notoriety when it comes to all-time great player discussions.
And their names aren't brought up in the media often at all.

Leigh Matthews rated Wilson his toughest opponent. The bloke averaged 25 touches & 1.7 goals in over 250 games. Was a 5 x B&F winner and currently sits comfortably in the AFL Hall of Fame.

People today rave on about Jeremy Cameron, Quinlan played exactly like that but could go into the middle or down back. Routinely kicked goals from 60 metres with relative ease.

Quinlan played for us before moving to the Roys.

The older members of my family are still upset that we sold him (it was done just to keep the club’s head above water)

Great player and even better bloke.

 

[raymond35]

Where was Fitzroy ranked in terms of popularity back then? We're they a big club with lots of supporters like Collingwood's/richmonds/carltons etc?

Yeah, growing up in the 70s and 80s I never met a Fitzroy supporter until I played cricket in the Northern suburbs.
Fairly small supporter base, mainly in the north and north east of Melbourne I think.

 

[Roylion]

Without a doubt Fitzroy's main rival was always Collingwood.

Fitzroy did have supporters and could draw a crowd.

As a comparison the 1983 average home game attendance: (which was second last year at Fitzroy's last genuine home ground - the Junction Oval and also its 100th anniversary) was as follows.

Fitzroy - 19,102
Geelong - 19,066
Hawthorn - 20,202
North Melbourne - 18,850
Footscray - 18,961
St Kilda - 20,189

In 1981, Fitzroy had the fourth highest membership in the league. It was worth being a member of a club playing out at a ground with a distinct Fitzroy identity, presence and membership benefits. A bit of onfield success helped too.

 

[Shane Sheridan]

No one rivals the guernsey worn in the eighties. Best football guernsey ever.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Where was Fitzroy ranked in terms of popularity back then? We're they a big club with lots of supporters like Collingwood's/richmonds/carltons etc?

Not sure overall.

Paraphrasing the book, 'Kill for Collingwood' by Richard Stremski, the following membership numbers were:

• Collingwood had 1,900 more members than Fitzroy in the early 1910s. At the time, Collingwood had roughly 5,000 members during this period just before WWI broke out and numbers inevitably dropped.
• Fitzroy had surpassed us briefly in the early 1920s and they had 500 more members than Collingwood in 1923. This was in part because of ticket price hikes in 1922.

 

[Gw2_James]

Without a doubt Fitzroy's main rival was always Collingwood.

Fitzroy did have supporters and could draw a crowd.

As a comparison the 1983 average home game attendance: (which was second last year at Fitzroy's last genuine home ground - the Junction Oval and also its 100th anniversary) was as follows.

Fitzroy - 19,102
Geelong - 19,066
Hawthorn - 20,202
North Melbourne - 18,850
Footscray - 18,961
St Kilda - 20,189

In 1981, Fitzroy had the fourth highest membership in the league. It was worth being a member of a club playing out at a ground with a distinct Fitzroy identity, presence and membership benefits. A bit of onfield success helped too.

Oh wow, such a shame a club like that is no more. Fitzroy probably would of been my 2nd favourite team. So what ended up happening to those Fitzroy supporters? I'm assuming most became Brisbane lions supporters?

 

[qman]

It's rival round, and with St. Kilda, Melbourne, the Doggies and North not having any pronounced rivals, I was wondering whether Fitzroy did?
I was only 10 when they folded so do not remember.
Anyone with any knowledge on this topic?

Including Melbourne as not having a pronounced rival is incorrect in my opinion. Collingwood v Melbourne was always considered a rivalry match. They don't play every Queens Birthday without reason.

 

[Roylion]

So what ended up happening to those Fitzroy supporters? I'm assuming most became Brisbane lions supporters?

Author Adam Muyt of "Maroon and Blue" made the following conclusions about where Fitzroy supporters went after the club was ejected from the AFL competition.

• at least 40 percent of Fitzroy supporters have been lost to AFL football. Assuming that Fitzroy's support base was about 200,000 (as estimated by Roy Morgan) then we can assume that roughly 80,000 no longer actively support / have lost interest in AFL football.
• between 5-10 percent of Fitzroy supporters now follow another code or lower levels of Australian Rules football as their primary football experience. (about 10,000-20,000)
• no more than 5 percent of Fitzroy supporters now follow another AFL side, including a few hundred that went across to North Melbourne. (No more than 10,000). This does not necessarily mean taking out a AFL club membership of their new club. Maybe 800 Fitzroy members / supporters took out a membership of North Melbourne in the years following 1996.
• over 40 percent of Fitzroy people support / follow the Brisbane Lions, but may not be necessarily paid up members. (about 80,000). In 1997, Brisbane's Victorian membership was 3,200, but has been as high as 8,000. Now its about 3,500-4,000 Victorian members per year.

A 1998 Fitzroy Football Club survey suggested that no more than 27% of Fitzroy people went across and became members / supporters of the Brisbane Lions.

In 1996 the Brisbane Bears had 80 Victorian members. In 1997 the Brisbane Lions had 3,300 Victorian members. Fitzroy had 7,628 members in 1996, suggesting roughly percentage of about 43% might have gone to the Brisbane Lions. The Victorian membership of the Brisbane Lions has been as high as 7,000 in the Lions' premiership years, but usually hovers around 4,000.

Fitzroy's membership
1987 - 4,503 (6th highest in the league from 14 teams)
1988 - 6,203 (6th highest in the league from 14 teams)
1989 - 3,970 (12th highest in the league from 14 teams)
1990 - 6,028 (10th highest in the league from 14 teams)
1991 - 5,876 (13th highest in the league from 15 teams)
1992 - 5,177 (13th highest in the league from 15 teams)
1993 - 6,853 (12th highest in the league from 15 teams)
1994 - 8,164 (13th highest in the league from 15 teams)
1995 - 8,806 (14th highest in the league from 16 teams)
1996 - 7,628 (16th highest in the league from 16 teams)

 

[The Devils Advocate]

Including Melbourne as not having a pronounced rival is incorrect in my opinion. Collingwood v Melbourne was always considered a rivalry match. They don't play every Queens Birthday without reason.

No rivalry now, no Queen.

 

[Cudi_420]

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread yet but Collingwood was their main rival.

 

[nobbyiscool]

Had they not been so callously exited by the AFL, and had they survived until stadium rationalisation, Fitzroy could've become this awesome little hipster club that had a point of difference not just in Melbourne, but across Australia. You go back to doing your captain's run once a week a Brunswick St, there may have been a better argument to maintain Princess Park as an AFL stadium, maybe they would've been the team that made Tassie work.

I imagine what Smith St would've looked like had we had a big Collingwood vs Fitzroy final, with 2023 footy culture intersecting a great local rivalry, perhaps the purest of local rivalries that there was - I think it would've been really cool. Getting rid of them sucked at the time, and with a 2023 lens I think it was an even worse decision, cos Fitzroy could've provided a fun point of difference had it been allowed.

 

[1990crow]

Had they not been so callously exited by the AFL, and had they survived until stadium rationalisation, Fitzroy could've become this awesome little hipster club that had a point of difference not just in Melbourne, but across Australia. You go back to doing your captain's run once a week a Brunswick St, there may have been a better argument to maintain Princess Park as an AFL stadium, maybe they would've been the team that made Tassie work.

I imagine what Smith St would've looked like had we had a big Collingwood vs Fitzroy final, with 2023 footy culture intersecting a great local rivalry, perhaps the purest of local rivalries that there was - I think it would've been really cool. Getting rid of them sucked at the time, and with a 2023 lens I think it was an even worse decision, cos Fitzroy could've provided a fun point of difference had it been allowed.

Nonsense. Fitzroy was broke and with smaller Victorian clubs still a financial strain on the competition Fitzroy would've just made that even worse.

 

[nobbyiscool]

Nonsense. Fitzroy was broke and with smaller Victorian clubs still a financial strain on the competition Fitzroy would've just made that even worse.

Say people who don't actually understand the story of how/why Fitzroy were driven from the competition.

 

[1990crow]

Say people who don't actually understand the story of how/why Fitzroy were driven from the competition.

Sure. If you live in fairy land where money doesn't exist.

 

[bresker]

No clubs are a financial strain on the competition now, since it's funded by TV , the AFL brand and Sportsbet. Fitzroy would have been fine, just had to wait it out.

Everytime I go to Edinburgh Gardens I try to imagine a crowd of ,30,000 or more watching the footy. I guess leaving their home was part of Fitzroy's downfall ? I read that the ground was actually owned by the Fitzroy cricket club. The cricketers weren't happy about sharing their ground with the footballers, and gradually let the stadium fall into disrepair until it was longer suitable for big crowds.

 

[footyfan1978]

No clubs are a financial strain on the competition now, since it's funded by TV , the AFL brand and Sportsbet. Fitzroy would have been fine, just had to wait it out.

Everytime I go to Edinburgh Gardens I try to imagine a crowd of ,30,000 or more watching the footy. I guess leaving their home was part of Fitzroy's downfall ? I read that the ground was actually owned by the Fitzroy cricket club. The cricketers weren't happy about sharing their ground with the footballers, and gradually let the stadium fall into disrepair until it was longer suitable for big crowds.

I think Fitzroy needed to do what Carlton did with the Cricket and Football Club joining together but it just never happened sadly. Sliding doors moment in history I suspect but far easier to see in hindsight than those people way back then looking forward.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Had they not been so callously exited by the AFL, and had they survived until stadium rationalisation, Fitzroy could've become this awesome little hipster club that had a point of difference not just in Melbourne, but across Australia. You go back to doing your captain's run once a week a Brunswick St, there may have been a better argument to maintain Princess Park as an AFL stadium, maybe they would've been the team that made Tassie work.

I imagine what Smith St would've looked like had we had a big Collingwood vs Fitzroy final, with 2023 footy culture intersecting a great local rivalry, perhaps the purest of local rivalries that there was - I think it would've been really cool. Getting rid of them sucked at the time, and with a 2023 lens I think it was an even worse decision, cos Fitzroy could've provided a fun point of difference had it been allowed.

That's all true, and yet, how many Victorian clubs is it equitable to have in a national league? What happened to Fitzroy is a tragedy, yes, but is it any more so than how all WAFL and SANFL clubs except Port are similarly irrelevant today?

 

[Roylion]

I think Fitzroy needed to do what Carlton did with the Cricket and Football Club joining together but it just never happened sadly.

The football club proposed a number of initiatives to try and stay at the Brunswick Street Oval in the mid 1960s which obviously was their heartland. They suggested that the Fitzroy Cricket Club and the Fitzroy Football Club form one club, which the cricket club rejected. An offer by Fitzroy Football Club to borrow $400,000 from the Fitzroy council to upgrade the ground was also rejected by the Cricket Club. The football club also wanted a forty year lease which was opposed by the Council, although the council had agreed to give them a 21 year lease with no funds for subsequent improvement, which the football club found unacceptable, given that the Cricket Club still controlled the ground.