Footy in Queensland

[Mostyn]

This is how it is in the northern states. I know Victorians who have lived here in Queensland for 25+ years that still don't know the difference between the two rugby codes but it's because they're simply not interested enough to learn and would rather stick to Aussie rules because they believe it's the superior sport anyway. I'm inclined to believe you would fall into that category because you live in Queensland but are running with the "rugby is rugby" spiel.

That's probably fair enough.

I've been here for a dozen years, and have tried a couple of times to get into rugby. I find it a charmless sport, and the subtle gradients of difference that you've outlined are lost on me, because I just think it's a blunt force activity. To me, ilt's repetitive and boring - but I probably wouldn't think that if I was raised on it.

Back on topic. It's generally an uphill battle for Aussie rules in Queensland but the tide does seem to be turning somewhat. I guess it just goes to show how important it is to have successful brands within a market. The Swans will never be number 1 in the Sydney market but they've definitely found their niche supporters base that allows them to remain competitive in the AFL and I think the Lions are on their way to achieving that in Brisbane as well.

I think the tide has turned pretty drastically, but mostly in the city and urban areas - and also very recently. I think league needs the media hold it has through the Murdoch press, but as that influence fades I think the hold will as well. Drastic population growth from down south has contributed a lot.

 

[Caligo]

This is a ridiculous debate.

Rugby is rugby. It's thick necked guys running in straight lines at each other. Sometimes it stops and someone rolls the ball out the back.

But it's all the same thing. Fans might say "oh, but in this version a guy chucks it in from the side" but it's all the same thing. It's chunky blokes trying not to throw the ball forward.

It's one of the main reasons that union is dying (or arguably has died). No one who isn't already a fan understands why there needs to be two versions of the same game. Rugby Union is just Ms Pacman.

Every single one of your posts is more stupid than the last. Maybe just stop talking about rugby.

If you are genuinely curious about the problems with rugby, I would be happy to educate you (they are actually quite interesting, and mostly relate to funding) but spouting utter trash is just making every body else more ignorant simply reading your posts.

 

[Bjo187]

I see what you're saying but if you spend enough time in Queensland or New South Wales and talk to enough people then you'll start to gain an appreciation for the differences between the two rugby codes. At the grassroots level, the biggest difference is probably the socioeconomic roots that are still enforced to this day. Put simply, rugby union is an upper class sport and rugby league is a working class sport - hence the reason rugby league is the more popular of the two. Union has retained their strong affiliations with the elite private schools throughout Queensland and New South Wales whereas league thrives in the government schools. There's a decent level of animosity between the two but you will occasionally see them work in unison at the junior level with the intention of engaging in a bidding war for the junior's services later on.

This is why you'll see players like last week's Dally M Medalist (the NRL's Brownlow) Kalyn Ponga receiving a scholarship to play rugby union for an elite private school while also taking part in the Brisbane Broncos' development academy. Ponga was playing rugby union for his school on Saturdays due to his scholarship commitments and rugby league on Sundays for his local club Easts Tigers as a part of the Broncos development pathway. That's a normal occurrence for an elite rugby league talent in Queensland or New South Wales. Ponga even joined the Brisbane Lions academy for a short period of time and had his choice of seven separate pro sports teams spread across the three football codes at the age of 15 but stayed true to rugby league in the end. If things had played out slightly differently then Ponga would have run out for the Brisbane Lions in the AFL Grand Final last week instead of winning the NRL's highest honour of the Dally M Medal.

Anyway, if you're looking for visual differences between the two codes then the most obvious would probably be the 15 players per side on the field in rugby union vs the 13 per side in rugby league. You've also got the tackle count being limited to five in rugby league whereas rugby union can have an unlimited amount of tackles (known as phases). You may also notice there's a lot more in-game kicking in rugby union because it's more of a territory game than rugby league is. The international element is far more prominent in rugby union as well with massive brands like the All Blacks that really draw in a lot of viewers while rugby league's international equivalent is pretty lacklustre in comparison if the person being asked was being honest.

If you refer to rugby league as "rugby" in front of a true rugby league fan that lives in Queensland or New South Wales then they will almost definitely correct you and tell you it's "league" or "rugby league" as they consider the word "rugby" to mean rugby union. Similarly, if you use the word "footy" then they will assume you mean rugby league when you probably mean Aussie rules. Once they realise what you mean, they will insist on referring to the sport of Australian rules football as "AFL". This is a socially acceptable way of referring to the three codes of football in Queensland or New South Wales. To add to the confusion, you'll occasionally come across association football fans who really resent the word "soccer" being used to describe their sport and insist on calling it "football" which can be a problem amongst rugby league fans who believe the word "football" refers to their sport. Most Aussie rules fans in Queensland and New South Wales avoid using "footy" or "football" to refer to their sport because they know there's a high chance they'll be misunderstood unless they are in a setting where it's obvious like attending a game at the Gabba.

This is how it is in the northern states. I know Victorians who have lived here in Queensland for 25+ years that still don't know the difference between the two rugby codes but it's because they're simply not interested enough to learn and would rather stick to Aussie rules because they believe it's the superior sport anyway. I'm inclined to believe you would fall into that category because you live in Queensland but are running with the "rugby is rugby" spiel.

Back on topic. It's generally an uphill battle for Aussie rules in Queensland but the tide does seem to be turning somewhat. I guess it just goes to show how important it is to have successful brands within a market. The Swans will never be number 1 in the Sydney market but they've definitely found their niche supporters base that allows them to remain competitive in the AFL and I think the Lions are on their way to achieving that in Brisbane as well.

I think most people understand what they are called up north, well I do anyway. It's more that people think they are completely different sports that gets me. Rugby league is effectively a branch coming off the 'rugby' tree, simply a different form of the same sport with different administrators, not this brand new invention of a sport pulled outta nowhere like the leagiues would have you believe. The sniff test would show you anybody that isn't into the sport would see either and say ''that's rugby', because the main fundamentals of both sports are the same, rugby league just pulled a number of rule changes. I suppose rugby 7s isn't rugby too then?

 

[GC2015]

Both Queensland AFLW teams have the opportunity to secure spots in the finals with wins next week. Another step forward for Queensland footy.

 

[Bjo187]

Both Queensland AFLW teams have the opportunity to secure spots in the finals with wins next week. Another step forward for Queensland footy.

You know what's an interesting observation. The women's Brisbane team is dominant with local talent, yet the women's gc team have struggled a little bit with their local talent.

Yet for men's football, the local talent the gold coast is churning out is amazing, yet the Brisbane men's area isn't quite as productive.

Do you think there is a reason for this?

 

[Caligo]

You know what's an interesting observation. The women's Brisbane team is dominant with local talent, yet the women's gc team have struggled a little bit with their local talent.

Yet for men's football, the local talent the gold coast is churning out is amazing, yet the Brisbane men's area isn't quite as productive.

Do you think there is a reason for this?

Random distribution.

 

[demoniac]

Queensland does seem to be providing a disproportionate number of talls. Which kinda makes sense. AFL and Basketball are attractive options for talls. Rugger you’re sentenced to life in the scrum. League doesn’t seem to have too many positions. Soccer really limited to goalie.


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[Caligo]

Queensland does seem to be providing a disproportionate number of talls. Which kinda makes sense. AFL and Basketball are attractive options for talls. Rugger you’re sentenced to life in the scrum. League doesn’t seem to have too many positions. Soccer really limited to goalie.


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Centre back is dead handy to be a giant in football. All rugby positions are getting taller at an alarming rate. Sport in general just tends to like height. Tennis is just going straight tall (only one average height player in the top 10)

 

[Miller1971]

You know what's an interesting observation. The women's Brisbane team is dominant with local talent, yet the women's gc team have struggled a little bit with their local talent.

Yet for men's football, the local talent the gold coast is churning out is amazing, yet the Brisbane men's area isn't quite as productive.

Do you think there is a reason for this?

Think you will see a shift in that regard after 2025 in the male space.

 

[Mostyn]

Think you will see a shift in that regard after 2025 in the male space.

You'll also start seeing a lot more high level female players in the Gold Coast region - it's becoming very popular.

 

[Bjo187]

Think you will see a shift in that regard after 2025 in the male space.

Care to elaborate further?

 

[Elixuh]

A big improvement on where we were when the Suns entered the comp. If Queensland can continue developing and producing draftable talent, it'll only benefit the entire comp.

 

[GC2015]

You know what's an interesting observation. The women's Brisbane team is dominant with local talent, yet the women's gc team have struggled a little bit with their local talent.

Yet for men's football, the local talent the gold coast is churning out is amazing, yet the Brisbane men's area isn't quite as productive.

Do you think there is a reason for this?

Many factors at play. The QAFLW is a Brisbane centric league with 5 of the 8 teams being based in the Brisbane and a 6th in Brisbane's zone of the Sunshine Coast. The Gold Coast has just two teams in the QAFLW and was only admitted a second team a few years ago. The GC teams in the QAFLW usually perform well but the weight in numbers virtually guarantees Brisbane is going to produce more draft worthy players on a regular basis. Brisbane also had the natural advantage of being admitted into the AFLW first which allowed them to essentially assemble a state team and maintain one for several years which included the best players from the Suns' zone as well as those from Brisbane's zone. You still see this playing a factor to this day with Brisbane's current captain and premiership player Breanna Koenen hailing from the Suns' zone in Townsville/Cairns and she would have been zoned to the Suns had they existed at the time. Success breeds success and Brisbane's AFLW team has done a good job of building on that year after year whereas the Gold Coast has had to do it the harder/more restricted way.

Care to elaborate further?

There are currently several highly rated male juniors in Brisbane's academy that are draft eligible in a few years from now. Problem is, those players are about to enter the most difficult stage of junior development between the U16 - U18 levels where many, many highly rated juniors fall away and some aren't even rookie worthy by the time their draft comes around. Being based in Queensland increases the chances of this occurring and I vividly remember local juniors like Brad Scheer being dubbed the 'next Michael Voss' after his U16s year and by the time his draft year came around he was barely good enough to be drafted (pick 67) and only played 13 lacklustre AFL games before being delisted.

So either Brisbane really is on the verge of a goldmine of local male juniors (unlikely based on historical evidence) or they are about to learn the harsh lesson that being a star at the U15s/U16s level doesn't guarantee you stardom at the U18s level. Particularly if you are from QLD.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Many factors at play. The QAFLW is a Brisbane centric league with 5 of the 8 teams being based in the Brisbane and a 6th in Brisbane's zone of the Sunshine Coast. The Gold Coast has just two teams in the QAFLW and was only admitted a second team a few years ago. The GC teams in the QAFLW usually perform well but the weight in numbers virtually guarantees Brisbane is going to produce more draft worthy players on a regular basis. Brisbane also had the natural advantage of being admitted into the AFLW first which allowed them to essentially assemble a state team and maintain one for several years which included the best players from the Suns' zone as well as those from Brisbane's zone. You still see this playing a factor to this day with Brisbane's current captain and premiership player Breanna Koenen hailing from the Suns' zone in Townsville/Cairns and she would have been zoned to the Suns had they existed at the time. Success breeds success and Brisbane's AFLW team has done a good job of building on that year after year whereas the Gold Coast has had to do it the harder/more restricted way.

Would the sparseness of Gold Coast's zone factor in?

Talent coming from NQ and the NT don't mind relocating in the men's for hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, but you can't expect as high a proportion of women from those regions to relocate for a part-time wage.

 

[GC2015]

Would the sparseness of Gold Coast's zone factor in?

Talent coming from NQ and the NT don't mind relocating in the men's for hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, but you can't expect as high a proportion of women from those regions to relocate for a part-time wage.

Definitely. Hopefully the recent changes to the CBA creates genuine incentive for females in all parts of Queensland to relocate to the Gold Coast/Brisbane to pursue a career in the AFLW, but there's no denying the distances between main cities in the Suns' zone like Gold Coast to Cairns (a larger distance than Gold Coast to Melbourne) is a huge disadvantage when compared to the state capital Brisbane bordering another major city in the Sunshine Coast. Much easier to convince a male player from NQ to relocate to the GC.

 

[Bjo187]

Is 17 in 3 years a bigger haul than usual over history? It's almost 6 per year which seems pretty good but interested how it compares to pre suns arrival. Also I doubt it ends up 17, maybe 13 or so, although Levi Ashcroft should technically be counted in there too.

The interesting thing is with the academies they seem to churn out quality over quantity.

 

[Miller1971]

Care to elaborate further?

Yes.

The Lions talent is much stronger than the Suns for the 2025 draft and beyond, though thats without knowing what hidden gems are found in NQ.

 

[GC2015]

Looks like both Queensland AFLW teams will be hosting home finals this season after tonight's result. Still possible both finish top 4 too.

Queensland footy is growing at a fast rate!

 

[Bjo187]

Looks like both Queensland AFLW teams will be hosting home finals this season after tonight's result. Still possible both finish top 4 too.

Queensland footy is growing at a fast rate!

Tough question for you and you probably don't know, but how many of the Queenslanders in the lions and suns teams would be of Queensland heritage, so not the daughters of southern/ footy ex pats?

I think that would tell the story of how much actual penetration into the local market the games had.

 

[GC2015]

Tough question for you and you probably don't know, but how many of the Queenslanders in the lions and suns teams would be of Queensland heritage, so not the daughters of southern/ footy ex pats?

I think that would tell the story of how much actual penetration into the local market the games had.

I can have a crack with what I know. I'll just go with the Queenslanders that played for the Suns in the Essendon game last night:

Wallis Randell - Raised just outside of Mackay and grew up playing basketball. Switched to footy later in life.
Lauren Ahrens - Born and raised on the Gold Coast. Went to a rugby league high school. First played footy at university in Melbourne.
Daisy D'Arcy - Raised in Townsville and grew up playing rugby league & soccer. Took up footy later in life.
Jamie Stanton - Grew up on the Gold Coast in a rugby league inclined family. Played soccer in the US before returning to try footy.
Lauren Bella - Born and raised in Mackay. Father was a pro rugby league player. Played netball before trying footy later in life.
Lucy Single - Born and raised on the Gold Coast. Grew up playing rugby union before trying footy later in life.
Jasmyn Smith - Raised on the Gold Coast. Father played footy. Initially played netball before focusing on footy.
Darcie Davies - Born in Wales and raised on the Gold Coast. Father was a pro rugby union player. Played netball and tried footy later in life.

From what I can gather, Jasmyn Smith is the only one that came from a footy background/family. All the rest came from other sports/backgrounds and gave footy a go later in life. Does this mean the penetration within the Gold Coast market is pretty strong?

 

[Bjo187]

I can have a crack with what I know. I'll just go with the Queenslanders that played for the Suns in the Essendon game last night:

Wallis Randell - Raised just outside of Mackay and grew up playing basketball. Switched to footy later in life.
Lauren Ahrens - Born and raised on the Gold Coast. Went to a rugby league high school. First played footy at university in Melbourne.
Daisy D'Arcy - Raised in Townsville and grew up playing rugby league & soccer. Took up footy later in life.
Jamie Stanton - Grew up on the Gold Coast in a rugby league inclined family. Played soccer in the US before returning to try footy.
Lauren Bella - Born and raised in Mackay. Father was a pro rugby league player. Played netball before trying footy later in life.
Lucy Single - Born and raised on the Gold Coast. Grew up playing rugby union before trying footy later in life.
Jasmyn Smith - Raised on the Gold Coast. Father played footy. Initially played netball before focusing on footy.
Darcie Davies - Born in Wales and raised on the Gold Coast. Father was a pro rugby union player. Played netball and tried footy later in life.

From what I can gather, Jasmyn Smith is the only one that came from a footy background/family. All the rest came from other sports/backgrounds and gave footy a go later in life. Does this mean the penetration within the Gold Coast market is pretty strong?

That's great news, it really has become mainstream. Jasmyn Smith was the one I looked up yesterday, grew up on gold coast etc etc but 'father played for Geelong', so I thought 'gee they could mostly be like that', so it's good to know.

Do you know the backgrounds of the 4 boys academy players being taken this year?

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

That's great news, it really has become mainstream. Jasmyn Smith was the one I looked up yesterday, grew up on gold coast etc etc but 'father played for Geelong', so I thought 'gee they could mostly be like that', so it's good to know.

Do you know the backgrounds of the 4 boys academy players being taken this year?

It’s also great to see that so many of those women’s team players came from North Queensland. Fair effort for the Suns to have academies covering GC North and South, Northern NSW, North Qld as well as the NT.

Jed Walter: born in WA. Grew up supporting the Eagles and playing footy over there before his family moved to the GC when he was about 12-13 y.o.

Not sure about the others.

 

[Bjo187]

It’s also great to see that so many of those women’s team players came from North Queensland. Fair effort for the Suns to have academies covering GC North and South, Northern NSW, North Qld as well as the NT.

Jed Walter: born in WA. Grew up supporting the Eagles and playing footy over there before his family moved to the GC when he was about 12-13 y.o.

Not sure about the others.

Damn, I didn't know that about Walter, I had him pegged for leading the QLD forward line for when a state of origin carnival returned in the future.

 

[GC2015]

Jed Walter: born in WA. Grew up supporting the Eagles and playing footy over there before his family moved to the GC when he was about 12-13 y.o.

Half right. Definitely born in WA and spent his early years there but this link reveals he never played any junior footy while in WA and moved to the Gold Coast at age 9. "I started playing footy when I moved over. Playing local footy and then I got selected in the SUNS Academy when I was 12." He does concede that he comes from a "big AFL family" but it's also important to acknowledge that he went to a school (PBC) that's known for producing NRL players and "everyone thought (he) was going to switch over to play rugby league". So yes, he comes from a footy background BUT there was also a lot of pressure on him to play rugby league and he resisted.

Damn, I didn't know that about Walter, I had him pegged for leading the QLD forward line for when a state of origin carnival returned in the future.

Walter would still play SoO for Queensland if teams were made today. Moved over at age 9 and played all his junior footy for Palm Beach Currumbin. Same deal as Nick Riewoldt.

There hasn't really been much else on the others except for Jake Rogers spending the early years of his life in Melbourne. I assume that means Read and Graham are Gold Coast born and bred but I don't have any evidence of that. Funnily enough Walter, Read and Graham have all played juniors together at PBC since 10 years of age. Pretty incredible story that all three about to be draft with top 30 picks.

 

[Bjo187]

It's a good point on Walter, soo representation should be based upon where you have spent the bulk of your years. So that difference in ages 9, compared to 13, changes things.

I didn't know that about Rogers, all i knew is one of his parents is South African (which i probably heard from you anyway). PBC is an absolute factory for producing sports stars.