Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

[ghostdog]

Enduring impact. Spare me.

You're underselling the work of Longmire and Goodwin, amongst others, to hold Roos up as some magical messiah.

Whilst completely ignoring his most recent job. Which was a failure.

And you're delusional about the common thread between the establishment of what both have achieved.

I'm not saying he is a messiah of any sort. I'm saying I would be happy if he had some sort of role in the club going forward.

It doesn't have to be Roos. As I've said, I'd also be supportive of including someone like Mark Williams. The inclusion of an experienced person to bring a more uncompromising edge to what we do is what I'm thinking of. Again though, if you think of someone better, let me know.

To say the work of Roos has had no long term impact at Sydney is utterly perplexing though. Brilliant.

 

[ghostdog]

Roos current passion for the game notwithstanding, this is really the right idea - to give someone the latitude to fundamentally change the nature of the club, which he did twice in his formal roles successfully.

The stories of what he inherited at Melbourne in comparison to what has happened since, coupled with the fact that he made Sydney of all clubs a sustainable, consistently competitive unit speak volumes.

The concern is that between Bomba and Worsfold we've already burned two such people who might have done this but TPTB at the club want a gun for hire, not a distinct authority because that authority might correctly point out that they're just no damn good.

Cheers for seeing my post for what it is.

 

[foj1]

He is in dangerous territory. He clearly can not sell the defensive message that he could to the Richmond players. Coaches live and die by how much buy in the get and Truck appears to be getting very little from the senior guys. You can not play like tonight and expect to stay. I do not really care about the press conference and how he looks or talks. The only thing I care about is buy in and he is not getting it.

The press conference gives an insight into his communication skills
he is a very poor performer
hence he is not selling his message

 

[Albertross]

He is in dangerous territory. He clearly can not sell the defensive message that he could to the Richmond players. Coaches live and die by how much buy in the get and Truck appears to be getting very little from the senior guys. You can not play like tonight and expect to stay. I do not really care about the press conference and how he looks or talks. The only thing I care about is buy in and he is not getting it.

If one group of players buy what he is selling, yet another group aren't willing too, isn't that on the playing group? Truck clearly knows how to sell the message, so why isnt it being bought? One group won 3 flags, the other just got spanked by 14 goals to a team not much better than them.

I too see this as an issue with the senior players not buying in, nor setting standards on the field. We have a leadership group, but we have next to no leaders.

So if the current group of Senior players won't buy into this message, why would they buy into the message the next coach, or any coach, will sell?

I know we can't just trade them all and I don't think we need to, but, I would be prepared to trade those senior players that refuse to buy in now and recruit those that will.

If it takes an extra 3 years to become successful, I would rather that than another 20 years of nothing.

 

[yodellinhank]

The press conference gives an insight into his communication skills
he is a very poor performer
hence he is not selling his message

You take that s**t seriously?

 

[Albertross]

The press conference gives an insight into his communication skills
he is a very poor performer
hence he is not selling his message

Such a poor communicator that Richmond players bought it, but our senior players won't?

I don't know if he's our saviour or not. I do think that we have more of an issue with certain members of the senior playing group than Truck though.

 

[ghostdog]

boncer34

Lol in lieu of a reasoned response. Good work!

 

[bacon buster]

If we are talking about trading “the whole list”, there’s probably someone who has been at the club for this entire period that should be under the microscope first?

 

[Vander18]

If we get rid of Rutten the same idiot who appointed him without a proper process will be choosing his replacement. The same idiot who also extended Worsfold’s contract for no reason apparent to anyone except himself. The same idiot who appears to be untouchable despite failing at core business for the duration of his 9 year tenure.

Rutten may or may not be the right coach but this is not where change at EFC needs to start.

 

[thepokey]

We often see clubs play well and win after a coach has been sacked and a new coach is installed. So what we do is have a new coach for each round next year. 22 coaches. The winning coaches then participate in an over the top rope battle royal as the end of the year. The winner coaches from 2024 onward. Its a process

 

[Highly Evolved]

Happy to be wrong, (maybe he'll come good), but I don't think Rutten is the answer - he is too reminscint of Knights' tenure.

Dev mentioned that people should treat their careers a bit like a "rush" as it can end so soon without success. Now is the time for the Club to be pragmatic.

Sack Rutten, demote Dodoro (they will never sack him - he'll be buried at Tullamarine), sack Campbell, Brasher will probably stand down, trade Parish and fill the vacancies properly.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

The press conference gives an insight into his communication skills
he is a very poor performer
hence he is not selling his message

Bill Belichick, Wayne Bennett, Allan Jeans and a heap of other highly successful coaches of the past were not great on front of the press. It’s the comms behind closed doors that matters

 

[citizen-erased]

i remember the days i knew every coach who i've been alive to know was done.
For Sheeds it was some time in 06 when he was too busy doing something other than coaching. Basically when he was the larger the life (and by extent the club) character

For Knights it was 2010 Anzac Day.

For Hird, it was the carlton game after the WADA appeal was announced.

For Worsfold it was never a permanent gig.

can't help think that might be the game for Truck sadly.

 

[Doss]

i remember the days i knew every coach who i've been alive to know was done.
For Sheeds it was some time in 06 when he was too busy doing something other than coaching. Basically when he was the larger the life (and by extent the club) character

For Knights it was 2010 Anzac Day.

For Hird, it was the carlton game after the WADA appeal was announced.

For Worsfold it was never a permanent gig.

can't help think that might be the game for Truck sadly.

I reckon you made the call on Knighta a bit prematurely. People forget that we actually got back to 5-5 in 2010 after the initial bad start; what sealed his fate in my mind was the six losses on the trot that followed getting back to 5-5, most infamously the Le Cras 12 game and getting completely belted in Adelaide.

I do agree that the game today had a certain air of coach killer about it though.

 

[citizen-erased]

I reckon you made the call on Knighta a bit prematurely. People forget that we actually got back to 5-5 in 2010 after the initial bad start; what sealed his fate in my mind was the six losses on the trot that followed getting back to 5-5, most infamously the Le Cras 12 game and getting completely belted in Adelaide.

I do agree that the game today had a certain air of coach killer about it though.

there was something in that game.
I don't think we knew then that we'd been spanked by the eventual premier. But it was the most defensively poor i've seen us....well, until this year.

Similar to the Blues game under Hird. We looked an empty force that day. Season was over, but you knew Hird was too.

 

[JayJ20]

From 2009-2022 we had 5 different senior coaches. We had the experience of Richardson, Rutten, Caracalla, Bomber, Mahoney, Harvey among others in various roles. Some of those people have overseen very successful programs at other clubs.

During that whole time, the results have literally stayed the same. In that whole time, the club hasn’t changed at all. Not even one bit of difference. Still the same middling side that performs well sometimes and poorly other times.

Do we really believe that every single coach including two premiership winning coaches in Bomber Thompson and Woosha are the issue?

If the same thing happens under 5 different coaches, then the coach isn’t the main issue. It’s the people that have been there for that whole time period.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

From 2009-2022 we had 5 different senior coaches. We had the experience of Richardson, Rutten, Caracalla, Bomber, Mahoney, Harvey among others in various roles. Some of those people have overseen very successful programs at other clubs.

During that whole time, the results have literally stayed the same. In that whole time, the club hasn’t changed at all. Not even one bit of difference. Still the same middling side that performs well sometimes and poorly other times.

Do we really believe that every single coach including two premiership winning coaches in Bomber Thompson and Woosha are the issue?

If the same thing happens under 5 different coaches, then the coach isn’t the main issue. It’s the people that have been there for that whole time period.

As raggedy as the season was, under Bomber we actually looked like something and at least were in the same parish as winning a final.

 

[Albertross]

IMO, Truck is not the problem. The problem is with the senior playing group (some, not all), who either went through the SAGA or came to the club in the following years.

Not necessarily their fault, but we went from Hird (who had the group playing for him), to Bomber, to Worsfold.

The issue, as I see it, is when Worsfold took over, the club had been through so much shite, that the players had a free ride, no authority, no respect, no demands for standards, whether it be on field or off field, just LEARNINGS!!!

I believe that this has led to some of the senior group losing hope and thinking why bother. The rest are in it for the money and themselves.

Now we have a senior group being asked to change their mentality, to adapt, to change, to play for and as a team. This has become foreign to them. Some dont want to change, they still play for themselves. Again, for some, why bother when others don't/won't want to change.

It's like cancer, if left unchecked, it will spread to the next group as well. So the likes of Perkins, Martin, Hobbs etc, will eventually have the same attitude.

So they ignore the Captain of our club when having an on field discussion and turn their back on him. They won't look their coach in the eye when they come to the bench. They won't lead by example on the field, they want cheap stats or goal of the year. Individual awards, not team success.

We won't be a success until we get rid of these players, won't matter who the coach is.

 

[JayJ20]

As raggedy as the season was, under Bomber we actually looked like something and at least were in the same parish as winning a final.

Nah we were the same old Essendon under Bomber. We lost to 17th placed Melbourne and 18th placed St Kilda who both won only 4 games for the year. We were just lucky we played North who by far remain the worst EF opponent we’ve faced in the drought. Imagine if we played Fremantle away instead? Already lost to them by 53 points that year.

We were good defensively, but couldn’t score, which really doesn’t have a net benefit.

 

[boncer34]

boncer34

Lol in lieu of a reasoned response. Good work!

We disagree. I'm not trading pages of posts going in circles with you. Move on.

 

[Doss]

As raggedy as the season was, under Bomber we actually looked like something and at least were in the same parish as winning a final.

The 2014 final (curse its memory) was the single one of the six we’ve played from 2009-21 that didn’t involve us ultimately getting a defenestration.

 

[ghostdog]

We disagree. I'm not trading pages of posts going in circles with you. Move on.

Okay then. Still, if you think of someone better, cool, let me know.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Nah we were the same old Essendon under Bomber. We lost to 17th placed Melbourne and 18th placed St Kilda who both won only 4 games for the year. We were just lucky we played North who by far remain the worst EF opponent we’ve faced in the drought. Imagine if we played Fremantle away instead? Already lost to them by 53 points that year.

We were good defensively, but couldn’t score, which really doesn’t have a net benefit.

This is a bit of myth RE: North since they were ultimately preliminary finalists.

The team was all over the shop of course and seemed to be a different mob from quarter to quarter but there was something there throughout the year, sporadic though it may be.

Now we've settled into a pattern of losing when it matters and winning when it doesn't.

 

[Doss]

This is a bit of myth RE: North since they were ultimately preliminary finalists.

The team was all over the shop of course and seemed to be a different mob from quarter to quarter but there was something there throughout the year, sporadic though it may be.

Now we've settled into a pattern of losing when it matters and winning when it doesn't.

If we’d not coughed up the lead against North we’d have played Geelong, who were completely cooked and who we’d almost beaten during the year.

Lots of ifs and buts, but 2014 was still the closest we’ve come to being able to mix it with the top teams.

 

[andleanback]

The same bloke who engineered both Sydney and Melbourne out of the doldrums? Yeah, that's the guy.

That guy doesn’t want to coach anymore. That guy doesn’t even live in Australia anymore. That guy’s style of play is 10 years outdated, the game has evolved. Roos isn’t what we need, we need a football ceo not a business ceo for starters. Someone who can actually run a football club and hold people accountable. I’d take Peter Jackson back over Paul Roos. What do all the perennial top clubs have in common a really strong football industry ceo. Carlton getting rid of little and bringing into cook was the best move they’ve made in 25 years.