Gambling and our reliance on it

[Black_White]

I'm fairly disappointed that we have not been leaders in this conversation.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-...gambling-advertising-during-afl-games/8266910

I suppose that having just announced a gambling fund raising competition that our players are gagged.
Collingwood have spent 125 years being an inspiration for those down on their luck. Now we are harvesting these people. (And no, not just the lotto like new kid on the block.)

 

[legendstatus]

Give it a rest

If you don't like it don't gamble simple

It's what keeps us viable - got any other ways ?????


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[Bad Horse]

Give it a rest

If you don't like it don't gamble simple

It's what keeps us viable - got any other ways ?????


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If you added up what we have spent on gambling licenses and the true cost of our pubs venture, whose underlying business model was all about pokies, I think you would find we are probably sitting on a loss right now. So no, it doesnt keep us viable. It has made a lot of money for some people in the supply chain, and whoever sold us the pub leases is probably still giggling. We also spent more than anyone per poker machine license and got conned. Its certainly a cash generator, it is also a cash drain, and our accounts make it ******* hard to work out the actual net position from pokies as costs are distributed across a whole lot of areas.

I have worked for several years in ALH premises. I felt defiled but I needed the money. The reality is the vast majority of any profit that does come to operators in the gambling industry comes from the small number who are unable to simply walk away. I saw them every shift. We worked very hard to keep them there because like every gambling franchise we knew they were our profit margin.

Its a values choice. If you want to be in it, promoting it as a fun activity, normalising it for kids, running pokies, in bed with gambling companies, you are part of the problem not part of the solution. Own it. Be a psychopathic campaigner like Mathieson. Just dont pretend to have standards, or community sensibility. And dont hide behind the tissue of personal choice. It doesnt excuse a drug dealer, it doesnt excuse this s**t.

The uni I work at may get a shitload of things wrong but it got one thing right. They refuse to do any contract research for the gambling industry. Legal does not equal right, or worthy. Some things arent worth selling out your own community.

 

[Markfs]

I do have a liking for gambling as a means of taxation.... If you can manage to take money from people willingly then it seems like a good idea to me. The problem is, of course, that gov'ts spend a truckload of money dealing with the problems of gambling...

Private industry, of course, doesnt have that issue. It makes all the money and throws a few bucks at sporting organisations or charities and manages to get people actually thanking them for their generosity....lol.... smart bastards.s
I think a gambling organisation actually sponsored the australian open..... even though tennis players gambling is a major issue...lol... talk about dealing with the devil. If trump was fair dinkum at trying to stop evil entering the US, he would stop money coming in...lol....as if...

To all the handwringers that worry about gambling, get used to it. We're just at the beginning of the cycle

 

[HenrikLundqvist]

Yay another annual gambling thread. Almost as annoying as having odds forced down my throat every time I watch a game.

Let's leave Bigfooty to the footy, nothing that a hundred fans can do about revising gambling policies when the AFL continues to sell its soul to the highest bidding betting agency.

 

[Kappa]

Gambling is just as "immoral" as fast food or alcohol.

The 99% do it in a fine and sometime enjoyable manner while 1% have a problem and the issue gets clouded by "morals".

It's not immoral for a company to try and get people to use their service, nor is it immoral for people to part with their money for that service. That's all gambling is, a service where people spend money and try to have fun. A small minority of people who have problems with self control doesn't make the activity immoral.

By all means spend money on helping addicts, but the high horse act is a little hypocritical when you realise it's just like other activity's we do regularly.

 

[Markfs]

Gambling is just as "immoral" as fast food or alcohol.

The 99% do it in a fine and sometime enjoyable manner while 1% have a problem and the issue gets clouded by "morals".

It's not immoral for a company to try and get people to use their service, nor is it immoral for people to part with their money for that service. That's all gambling is, a service where people spend money and try to have fun. A small minority of people who have problems with self control doesn't make the activity immoral.

By all means spend money on helping addicts, but the high horse act is a little hypocritical when you realise it's just like other activity's we do regularly.

I agree. i dont think it's a question of morality. I see these gambling companies as a bit like people selling drugs. I'm not fussed if they sell drugs to people who can handle them but they shouldnt sell to kids and I get upset when I have to foot the bill for all the misery that the drugs cause.

Now if gambling companies and drug peddlers clean up their mess pay for the mess that they cause, then i'm ok with it

 

[Jasper84]

To me it's all a tad ironic that we take the moral high ground on gambling revenue whilst wearing our apparel that was manufactured in a factory that does just the bare minimum to avoid slavery laws. The same apparel that sports the logos of a company that just made thousands of aussie workers redundant, another whose CEO makes millions whilst inflating interest rates, a prime contributor to the obesity epidemic and an airline that dumps insane amounts of burnt fossil fuels into the atmosphere on regular basis.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is nothing wrong with shouting down from your ivory tower but you should probably enquire where the ivory came from

 

[Vicky Park]

This is a simplistic take, but I'm still struggling with the concept of using gambling to help fund charitable work and raise money which in some (many?) cases goes back to the very people who lost it in the first place because of gambling...at the footy...or at venues operated by AFL clubs.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Arn't most things we do gambling? Pokies.. shares.. gambling on Mayne.. gambling on Bucks one more yr.. gambling on attacking the ball.. etc etc etc.. ffs we gamble every time we post risking ridicule.. so if the funds were not sourced from the pokies and pubs.. they would still be sourced by some other method/source of gambling.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Give it a rest

If you don't like it don't gamble simple

It's what keeps us viable - got any other ways ?????


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If you club was being run better, we'd find other revenue streams.

OR to keep it really simple, we could be better on field which would lead to higher memberships and crowd numbers?

 

[Scodog10]

For me if we aren't profiting from pokies some other vulture will so I'm content with the status quo there. We do more good in the community than whoever picks up the pokies license would. At the most basic level people still have choice until we take that from them I won't be anti pokie revenue.

I thoroughly dislike that we created another gambling mechanism to fund our charitable ventures, but that's a different discussion all together. I'm also not convinced its as accurate as advertised given our financial reports are never a faithful representation of the business, IMO.

 

[Wooljay]

Just one facet of gambling but I wish all football clubs didn't have to rely on pokies machines for revenue, not just ours.

It's a vampiric and evil industry which preys on the elderly and problem gamblers. It has zero net-benefit to our society and is a pathetic industry.

The fact that Carlton are the biggest profiteers of such a filthy business seems fitting - but we aren't far behind.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Whilst gambling can be a harmless vice, sometimes, ofcourse it is anything but harmless.

What role society should play in protecting its citizens is a vexed question beyond my pay scale.

However, pokies?

The big issue with pokies is it's pernicious set up, all designed to intoxicate the player and designed often with such bad odds that winning is not really part of it, just losing.

And it's not even like say horse racing, or football betting, a judgment of a winner (ie you pick) but all attributable to sheer luck (and horrible odds against you).

What we as a club should or should not do is open for debate. Hence the thread I imagine.

 

[TW Sherrin]

This is a simplistic take, but I'm still struggling with the concept of using gambling to help fund charitable work and raise money which in some (many?) cases goes back to the very people who lost it in the first place because of gambling...at the footy...or at venues operated by AFL clubs.

agree....seems we are looking for ways to put a positive spin on gambling.

 

[76woodenspooners]

If you club was being run better, we'd find other revenue streams.

It's a challenging one.

Footy clubs are not for profit organisations, they can't just employ a gun CEO and motivate them with a sack of share options in the way for-profit organisations can.

Regardless, there must be enough passion out there for Collingwood for there to be the motivation to make it financially strong.

OR to keep it really simple, we could be better on field which would lead to higher memberships and crowd numbers?

On field performances aren't enough (as North showed in the 90's)

Footy clubs need to be able to be financially strong regardless of how they are doing on-field.

 

[TW Sherrin]

For me if we aren't profiting from pokies some other vulture will so I'm content with the status quo there. We do more good in the community than whoever picks up the pokies license would. At the most basic level people still have choice until we take that from them I won't be anti pokie revenue.

I thoroughly dislike that we created another gambling mechanism to fund our charitable ventures, but that's a different discussion all together. I'm also not convinced its as accurate as advertised given our financial reports are never a faithful representation of the business, IMO.

state govt made a massive error when pokies were introduced in Vic. they should've been given to sporting clubs not businesses.

 

[76woodenspooners]

state govt made a massive error when pokies were introduced in Vic. they should've been given to sporting clubs not businesses.

The pokies were introduced to raise money. Our state government finances were in a bad way. Selling the licences to for-profit enterprises was a way of raising revenue fast. If it weren't for that, we'd have no pokies at all and we'd still have those pokies bus tours going up to the big venues on Murray.

 

[Black_White]

The pokies were introduced to raise money. Our state government finances were in a bad way. Selling the licences to for-profit enterprises was a way of raising revenue fast. If it weren't for that, we'd have no pokies at all and we'd still have those pokies bus tours going up to the big venues on Murray.

And wasn't that a great day out?

 

[TW Sherrin]

The pokies were introduced to raise money. Our state government finances were in a bad way. Selling the licences to for-profit enterprises was a way of raising revenue fast. If it weren't for that, we'd have no pokies at all and we'd still have those pokies bus tours going up to the big venues on Murray.

we'd be better off without them.

and the murray towns wold be too.

 

[76woodenspooners]

And wasn't that a great day out?

It was an awesome day out.

Back then the machines had levers on the side which gave me a decent workout. And they made a proper 'ding ding' sound.

The $5 parmas were delicious.

I made some lifelong friends on those bus trips. Bob and June and Mary and me used make a regular event of it.

These days I just sit in the pokies room pressing buttons.

Press Press Press

I talk to no-one.

I don't make eye contact with the other people in the pokies room. I am embarrassed I guess. I needn't worry, 'cause they don't make eye contact with me either.

Fortunately the machines notice my wins and flash the LED lights and make artificial ding ding sounds, 'cause if they didn't I wouldn't notice. I am grateful for the tiny hit of adrenaline that gives me. But that adrenaline just seems to be getting less and less and I need more and more.

I wonder how Bob and June and Mary are going these days? I haven't spoken to any of them for a while, it must be, oh, a long time.

 

[Markfs]

It was an awesome day out.

Back then the machines had levers on the side which gave me a decent workout. And they made a proper 'ding ding' sound.

The $5 parmas were delicious.

I made some lifelong friends on those bus trips. Bob and June and Mary and me used make a regular event of it.

These days I just sit in the pokies room pressing buttons.

Press Press Press

I talk to no-one.

I don't make eye contact with the other people in the pokies room. I am embarrassed I guess. I needn't worry, 'cause they don't make eye contact with me either.

Luckily the machines notice my wins and flashes the LED lights and makes artificial ding ding sounds, 'cause if it didn't I wouldn't notice. I am grateful for the tiny hit of adrenaline that gives me, but it just seems to be getting less and less and I need more and more.

I wonder how Bob and June and Mary are going these days? I haven't spoken to any of them for a while, it must, ooh, a long time.

The casino over here in WA picks up the old and the fraile like myself at large suburban centres around the metropolitan area and bring them straight to the pokies for the day. It's wonderful that the people at the casino care so much about us to give us a day out. I've met dozens of people on the bus. It's a wonderful social gathering where we can keep in touch and borrow money. The parmas are $15 now but the love from the staff is still the same. Thank god someone cares.....

 

[NoobPie]

I have far less problems with a lottery that funds charity work as apposed to pokies full stop. We should divest from the latter and focus on the strategy of multisports / community

 

[76woodenspooners]

The casino over here in WA picks up the old and the fraile like myself at large suburban centres around the metropolitan area and bring them straight to the pokies for the day. It's wonderful that the people at the casino care so much about us to give us a day out. I've met dozens of people on the bus. It's a wonderful social gathering where we can keep in touch and borrow money. The parmas are $15 now but the love from the staff is still the same. Thank god someone cares.....

Over here in the eastern states our parmas are $10 these days.

Our pokies venues aren't ripping us off like yours seem to be.

 

[Markfs]

Over here in the eastern states our parmas are $10 these days.

Our pokies venues aren't ripping us off like yours seem to be.

The only casino in town is owned by Sir James Packer. I doubt that he would take advantage of his situation. I think it's because Parmas arent cultivated in WA. We have to get them in from "over East". Freight costs are extremely high over here because the government refuses to subsidise the trucking industry and because syrians are coming in and working as cheap labour. We need a strong leader who will make WA great again.