Opinion Geelong's era of dominance over

[Gazza Greatness]

What am I coping with mate?

Never having had to be s**t in the entire time I’ve been following my footy team? Seeing more flags than most supporters? Having a 70 per cent chance of watching my team win when I turn the TV on each week over a two decade sample size? Yes it’s tough to cope with. Better burn everyone’s contract and trade for draft picks
As one of two teams this millennium with 4 flags, what we’re doing clearly hasn’t worked. The Falcon Way is better . You’ve done it again.

Yeah it’s been a real tough time having to mentally gymnasticise my way through the footballing journey

No, not really. I mentioned an incident with my daughter, and my marriage broke down. The second part is pretty common for a lot of people.

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As a fellow Geelong Big Footy member PhatBoy: I've enjoyed reading many of your posts over-time but I just don't get it with you when guys like Cleansweep17 who aren't the smartest tools in the shed and can be somewhat delusional, tell fibs and also enjoy trolling, a little like the Trump MAGA's, that you just don't let sleeping dogs lay. In fact, if a few of us Geelong Big Footy members just left guys like Cleansweep17 alone then they'd end up having no one left to reply their gibberish nonsense too. I rarely come onto the main Big Footy Board anymore as I just prefer the Geelong Big Footy board for this very reason, be lucky if I come here once a fortnight to month but the past two days I have and it's just this same old, same old and it's not pleasant reading. Anyhow Phatboy: I'm likely not to come back to the Big Footy main board for awhile but I just wanted to express my outward views to you because you come across as really decent human-being and a impassioned Geelong supporter, best regards Richard and GO CATS.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

Tilly (twice): “Highway robbery that we got guys like Clark after a flag”

Me: Posts a pic of 5 of 6 key afl stats being below average

Phatboy and rest of Geelong cheer squad: “omg you dumb pathetic troll you are just obssesed and hate Geelong”

But yeah I’m the problem.

To meet you Cleansweep17: you very may well be a very decent guy but I've gotta say that here on Big Footy you at times come across as a 'total dickhead' and that's being polite. As I previously stated to Phatboy: it's best just to leave you and guys like you alone, so you certainly won't be hearing from me anymore but I'm in no way a vindictive person Cleansweep17 so I still wish you the very best in the future but please try to be a little bit more opened minded in future and not be so Tiger bias, it's just a better way to live our lives, regardless of who we support but even in life in general.

So once again, all the best to you and I sure hope the Tigers disastrous injury run that you're currently experiencing comes to a screeching holt, as per Cats 2023 all over again. In fact, with a little bit of luck re: injuries this year and having a near full complement of players, you very well may have been in the top 8 but as they say, 'when it rains it pours' which is what you guys have unfortunately being going through, but this also is where having 'experienced depth' is vital to remain winning competitive.

 

[Cleansweep17]

No I just like pointing out really poor flaws in your logic more than anything

I literally just posted the stats but ok.

 

[Cleansweep17]

To meet you Cleansweep17: you very may well be a very decent guy but I've gotta say that here on Big Footy you at times come across as a 'total dickhead' and that's being polite. As I previously stated to Phatboy: it's best just to leave you and guys like you alone, so you certainly won't be hearing from me anymore but I'm in no way a vindictive person Cleansweep17 so I still wish you the very best in the future but please try to be a little bit more opened minded in future and not be so Tiger bias, it's just a better way to live our lives, regardless of who we support but even in life in general.

So once again, all the best to you and I sure hope the Tigers disastrous injury run that you're currently experiencing comes to a screeching holt, as per Cats 2023 all over again. In fact, with a little bit of luck re: injuries this year and having a near full complement of players, you very well may have been in the top 8 but as they say, 'when it rains it pours' which is what you guys have unfortunately being going through, but this also is where having 'experienced depth' is vital to remain winning competitive.

Nice meeting you too

Mind pointing out what I’ve just said that’s incorrect I’m having trouble?

I just posted a few young players stats and said high draft picks are a quicker way to rebuild. Why this has caused an explosion amongst Geelong supporters I have no idea.

 

[PhatBoy]

I literally just posted the stats but ok.

Not sure what that has to do with your ideas on rebuilding.

Though I do like that - assuming you’re talking about the stats you posted for young Clark, five games is enough of a sample size to make a judgement about whether a player is going to be ok.

But 35 years isn’t enough of a sample size to determine if something else works

 

[Cleansweep17]

Not sure what that has to do with your ideas on rebuilding.

Though I do like that - assuming you’re talking about the stats you posted for young Clark, five games is enough of a sample size to make a judgement about whether a player is going to be ok.

But 35 years isn’t enough of a sample size to determine if something else works

I’m not making the judgment. My whole point is that you are (Like Taper says he’s a steal after 5 games). I’m waiting for his season to play out like I’ve mentioned. These are his stats currently. Sometimes I think you are living in another dimension.

 

[PhatBoy]

Nice meeting you too

Mind pointing out what I’ve just said that’s incorrect I’m having trouble?

I just posted a few young players stats and said high draft picks are a quicker way to rebuild. Why this has caused an explosion amongst Geelong supporters I have no idea.

Lollllll what explosion?

You need to stop mistaking simple logical refutation for agitation.

What have you proven about high draft picks making for a quicker rebuild?

Melbourne took 56 years to win a comp with all the help in the world. You took 37. North Melbourne haven’t won anything in 25 years and are no closer now than they have been for the last 5-6 and they won’t be for another 5-6. Carlton will have been at minimum 30 seasons between flags with all the picks they could handle.

What’s your evidence for all of this? Brisbane have had multiple goes at it and only in the last four years as their drought stretches to two decades are they looking like breaking it. Suns and Giants have been given picks hand over fist and haven’t won anything yet though the Giants at least are pressing.

Meanwhile the teams who’ve not gone down that path:

West coast - ok they’re awful now but they’ve been perennial finalists and never been more than just over a decade without a flag

Sydney since 1996 have been always thereabouts and never far from a grand final and have a couple of flags

Collingwood - won a flag in 1990, by the end of the decade we’re about to make two grand finals, were contending again by 2007, made regular grand finals from then, have made several more, have two more flags

Geelong - never finished lower than 12th, 17 prelim finals in 34 years, never had a pick higher than 5, 10 grand finals, 4 flags since 1989.


At very best, AT VERY BEST, your argument is neutralised by the fact that for every success story based around rebuilding and building an altar with the word ‘DRAFT PICKS’ across the top of it and sacrificing a live chicken to it each day, there has been multiple failures, and there are multiple clubs who haven’t bothered going down that route because they know that they don’t have to.


And I suspect that deep down if your team had the resources at its disposal currently, you would want them to keep fighting to win too. Because while it doesn’t really matter in the end, you’d rather watch your team win than lose, just because five years down the track it might mean some kid that’s not even playing under 16s footy yet, is picked up by your club and becomes an overwhelming disappointment.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

Nice meeting you too

Mind pointing out what I’ve just said that’s incorrect I’m having trouble?

I just posted a few young players stats and said high draft picks are a quicker way to rebuild. Why this has caused an explosion amongst Geelong supporters I have no idea.

Stating the bleating obvious there Cleansweep17: Huge wrap on Gibus (so f**k off to major injuries just so cruel, especially to a young gun like him) but Geelong's collective young crop is easily the best since 2003, not as good as that era but certainly the best since, of which I've been writing up on Geelong Big Footy forum for sometime now about many of these up and coming star young players. Wellsy, Mackie and the development team have done a remarkable job AGAIN given that they're rarely granted high draft picks but there's more than one way to develop a competitive and successful team than receiving high draft picks as those guys have previously showed.

Tiger's had a great run of draft picks and list management prior to sensational threepeat, hence why you won those deserving flags but ever since, on the whole your draft picks and list management has been really poor, like the Tigers of old when you were s**t. And Damien Hardwick didn't help matters when jumping ship after trying to win another flag which ended up causing much harm and destruction with Adam Yze and company left to pick up the pieces but in fairness to Damien he was a big part of you winning threepeat, so kudos to him there but it's certainly not helping matters now.

By the way Cleansweep17: I enjoy watching Shai Bolton 'when on song' more than any other player in comp, he's a sensational player to watch and that screamer he took against Cats going back sometime ago was simply awesome and one of my all time favourite marks.

SHAI BOLTON MARK OF THE YEAR!!!! Round 8 2021​

 

[Cleansweep17]

Lollllll what explosion?

You need to stop mistaking simple logical refutation for agitation.

What have you proven about high draft picks making for a quicker rebuild?

Melbourne took 56 years to win a comp with all the help in the world. You took 37. North Melbourne haven’t won anything in 25 years and are no closer now than they have been for the last 5-6 and they won’t be for another 5-6. Carlton will have been at minimum 30 seasons between flags with all the picks they could handle.

What’s your evidence for all of this? Brisbane have had multiple goes at it and only in the last four years as their drought stretches to two decades are they looking like breaking it. Suns and Giants have been given picks hand over fist and haven’t won anything yet though the Giants at least are pressing.

Meanwhile the teams who’ve not gone down that path:

West coast - ok they’re awful now but they’ve been perennial finalists and never been more than just over a decade without a flag

Sydney since 1996 have been always thereabouts and never far from a grand final and have a couple of flags

Collingwood - won a flag in 1990, by the end of the decade we’re about to make two grand finals, were contending again by 2007, made regular grand finals from then, have made several more, have two more flags

Geelong - never finished lower than 12th, 17 prelim finals in 34 years, never had a pick higher than 5, 10 grand finals, 4 flags since 1989.


At very best, AT VERY BEST, your argument is neutralised by the fact that for every success story based around rebuilding and building an altar with the word ‘DRAFT PICKS’ across the top of it and sacrificing a live chicken to it each day, there has been multiple failures, and there are multiple clubs who haven’t bothered going down that route because they know that they don’t have to.


And I suspect that deep down if your team had the resources at its disposal currently, you would want them to keep fighting to win too. Because while it doesn’t really matter in the end, you’d rather watch your team win than lose, just because five years down the track it might mean some kid that’s not even playing under 16s footy yet, is picked up by your club and becomes an overwhelming disappointment.

The explosion that’s caused your novel.

If we were in contention yes but we aren’t so I’d prefer to tank and get good picks.

This is how we made our dynasty and how most of the other ones are made. Tbh even yours with Hawkins. You need good players to win premierships and you can’t do that whilst also contending. You can delay it like you have but odds are you can’t do it forever. So we’ll just see.

I also mentioned previously you currently have no KPFs coming up (well obvious good ones). Do you don’t see this as an issue? Who are you going to get without any good picks? You can trade I guess but given the limited amount of draft capital there is no room for error.

 

[Taper]

Who’s doing the robbing exactly?

He's 19 years old and has played a small handful of games, write him off at your peril.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Stating the bleating obvious there Cleansweep17: Huge wrap on Gibus (so f**k off to major injuries just so cruel, especially to a young gun like him) but Geelong's collective young crop is easily the best since 2003, not as good as that era but certainly the best since, of which I've been writing up on Geelong Big Footy forum for sometime now about many of these up and coming star young players. Wellsy, Mackie and the development team have done a remarkable job AGAIN given that they're rarely granted high draft picks but there's more than one way to develop a competitive and successful team than receiving high draft picks as those guys have previously showed.

Tiger's had a great run of draft picks and list management prior to sensational threepeat, hence why you won those deserving flags but ever since, on the whole your draft picks and list management has been really poor, like the Tigers of old when you were s**t. And Damien Hardwick didn't help matters when jumping ship after trying to win another flag which ended up causing much harm and destruction with Adam Yze and company left to pick up the pieces but in fairness to Damien he was a big part of you winning threepeat, so kudos to him there but it's certainly not helping matters now.

By the way Cleansweep17: I enjoy watching Shai Bolton 'when on song' more than any other player in comp, he's a sensational player to watch and that screamer he took against Cats going back sometime ago was simply awesome and one of my all time favourite marks.

SHAI BOLTON MARK OF THE YEAR!!!! Round 8 2021​

Thanks for the good response. I hope others can take your lead.

You do have good ones like SDK, Holmes, Henry, Stengel. No issues there.

But when these new guys like Bruhn, Neale, Clark, Knevitt also get flung around as steals of the century when they haven’t proven anything I will call it out. Am I being unreasonable?

I don’t do that with Richmond youngsters, I am very reserved and I’m open to the fact that any one of them won’t make it. Even Gibcus due to being injury prone.

Make no mistake if it was the other way around you’d take the micky out of me for touting your players as the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Cleansweep17]

He's 19 years old and has played a small handful of games, write him off at your peril.

I’ll do an update half way through the season and at the end of the season. I’m interested to see how he progresses.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

If we were in contention yes but we aren’t so I’d prefer to tank and get good picks.

I never want to see my team tank.

The fact you’re advocating for it after round 5 is telling.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I never want to see my team tank.

The fact you’re advocating for it after round 5 is telling.

I’ll give you an example in the last round of 2021 I believe we were playing the Hawks. If we won we’d finish 9th if we drew/lost we’d finish 12th. We ended up drawing and then used our better pick to get Gibcus who we couldn’t have gotten otherwise.

If you were in our position would you have wanted to win the game purely for pride or lose to get the better pick?

 

[PhatBoy]

The explosion that’s caused your novel.

If we were in contention yes but we aren’t so I’d prefer to tank and get good picks.

This is how we made our dynasty and how most of the other ones are made. Tbh even yours with Hawkins. You need good players to win premierships and you can’t do that whilst also contending. You can delay it like you have but odds are you can’t do it forever. So we’ll just see.

I also mentioned previously you currently have no KPFs coming up (well obvious good ones). Do you don’t see this as an issue? Who are you going to get without any good picks? You can trade I guess but given the limited amount of draft capital there is no room for error.

We played a forward on the weekend who kicked 3 goals in his first match of the season. Will he be Tom Hawkins? Probably not. He doesn’t have to be. We don’t need to draft Tom Hawkins. We can develop Shannon Neale into a decent forward and if we are kicking winning scores, it really doesn’t matter does it. We built that initial team without him anyway, much as he came into it and played a crucial role once he was there. Having an 800 goal forward isn’t a pre-requisite for success, as nice as it is.

You made yours after a hell of a lot of goes at it. You might have got there quicker doing it differently, who knows.

Even the cultural impact it has on players: what effect do you think that would have on young guys basically being told to go out and lose each week

 

[Gazza Greatness]

Thanks for the good response. I hope others can take your lead.

You do have good ones like SDK, Holmes, Henry, Stengel. No issues there.

But when these new guys like Bruhn, Neale, Clark, Knevitt also get flung around as steals of the century when they haven’t proven anything I will call it out. Am I being unreasonable?

I don’t do that with Richmond youngsters, I am very reserved and I’m open to the fact that any one of them won’t make it. Even Gibcus due to being injury prone.

Make no mistake if it was the other way around you’d take the micky out of me for touting your players as the best thing since sliced bread.

First and foremost Cleansweep: I'm not a stats man and I never will be, as stats at times can be the most over-rated stat in the game, they're their for guide nothing more, I just prefer to back my own judgement when it comes to a players potential with Tanner Bruhn being exhibit one. There was initially so much BS written about Tanner on the Geelong Big Footy forum and to why we should have never recruited him from The Giants, yet having knew absolutely nothing about him, I seen him in 'one hour' of football against The Hawks in a preseason game prior to the 2023 season before he even played one single game for us and I knew then and there that this kid was going to be an A Grade footballer and I did 'state why' at the time.

Been a huge fan of Ollie Dempsey from the get-go, kids going to be an absolute gun and there's a bit of Shai Bolton about him too! Sam De Koning will end up in the best 3 full backs in the league and I reckon 18yo Connor O'Sullivan will be even be a better footballer than Sam, so that's how highly I rate Connor, in fact I just love that kid as he's just got it. Then we have Toby Conway who's a reincarnation/clone of former Geelong captain and ruckman Damien Bourke, it's just that Toby has better skills than Damien and will end up in the top 3 ruckman in the AFL 'guaranteed' and then there's Ollie Henry, Max Holmes that are already proven excellent players with other extra promising young players that I've also written up on the Geelong Big Footy forum. So that's why I say Cleansweep17: that I've stated that this is our best crop of youngster's 'by a fair margin' since 2003 and I'll back my footy judgement against anyone.

 

[Cleansweep17]

First and foremost Cleansweep: I'm not a stats man and I never will be, as stats at times can be the most over-rated stat in the game, they're their for guide nothing more, I just prefer to back my own judgement when it comes to a players potential with Tanner Bruhn being exhibit one. There was initially so much BS written about Tanner on the Geelong Big Footy forum and to why we should have never recruited him from The Giants, yet having knew absolutely nothing about him, I seen him in 'one hour' of football against The Hawks in a preseason game prior to the 2023 season before he even played one single game for us and I knew then and there that this kid was going to be an A Grade footballer and I did 'state why' at the time.

Been a huge fan of Ollie Dempsey from the get-go, kids going to be an absolute gun and there's a bit of Shai Bolton about him too! Sam De Koning will end up in the best 3 full backs in the league and I reckon 18yo Connor O'Sullivan will be even be a better footballer than Sam, so that's how highly I rate Connor, in fact I just love that kid as he's just got it. Then we have Toby Conway who's a reincarnation/clone of former Geelong captain and ruckman Damien Bourke, it's just that Toby has better skills than Damien and will end up in the top 3 ruckman in the AFL 'guaranteed' and then there's Ollie Henry, Max Holmes that are already proven excellent players with other extra promising young players that I've also written up on the Geelong Big Footy forum. So that's why I say Cleansweep17: that I've stated that this is our best crop of youngster's 'by a fair margin' since 2003 and I'll back my footy judgement against anyone.

Yeah man you do you

I see a lot of potential too. But that’s just it, it is just potential. Let’s see how they go.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

Yeah man you do you

I see a lot of potential too. But that’s just it, it is just potential. Let’s see how they go.

The most successful men in life Cleanswwep: don't sit on the fence mate but rather, they're go-getters that back their judgement coupled with having incredible vision and foresight, work triply hard to reach their goals and at all times are trying to make every post a winner.

For Geelong since 2000 onwards, we've been blessed with many great men at club with Brian Cook and Frank Costa the first to set the unbelievably high standards that the club still retains today, so thankfully their legacy still lives. But it's Wellsy and what he has done with draft and player selections over a very long period of time that has primarily allowed this club to be so successful over this lengthy journey. You guys did the same in a lesser time period prior to your amazing Threepeat with Brendan Gale being a standout, a great man is Brendan as I have so much respect and admiration for him and what he has accomplished, cheers Richard and thanks for discussion Cleansweep17:, it's been a real pleasure.

 

[Outtatym]

Why is it any thread about Geelong you will find a handful tuggers and always a mention of Dusty? Jealousy? Insecurity?

Did lol at the op date.

 

[Mr Meow]

Is your issue that you don't find him attractive?

I have to admit, I get freaked out when Falcon starts analysing Geelong players on how handsome or unattractive they are physically.

This isn't PlayGirlFooty.com

Even weirder is that he doesn't do it for any other clubs!

 

[Mr Meow]

I’ll do an update half way through the season and at the end of the season. I’m interested to see how he progresses.

Clark's getting bonus minutes in the 1s this season. His frame isn't ready for AFL and neither is his tank. About 20 more VFL games and 30 more AFL games in the bank are needed. Even Dempsey before this season didn't show much in the 1s.

So your updates this year will be meaningless. A 2024 vs 2025 vs 2026 update will be meaningful. Stoppage midfielders take time unless they have big bodies straight out of the draft.

 

[caveman72]

I never want to see my team tank.

The fact you’re advocating for it after round 5 is telling.

Yep never surrender. Wouldn't want a bloke like that on my team get a few goals down and trows the towel in like Frenchman inWW2. Bloody surrender Monkey

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

I’ll give you an example in the last round of 2021 I believe we were playing the Hawks. If we won we’d finish 9th if we drew/lost we’d finish 12th. We ended up drawing and then used our better pick to get Gibcus who we couldn’t have gotten otherwise.

If you were in our position would you have wanted to win the game purely for pride or lose to get the better pick?

I always want my side to try and win.
A better pick doesn’t always mean a better player and tinkering with club culture by tanking is a dangerous game.

 

[Mr Meow]

I’ll give you an example in the last round of 2021 I believe we were playing the Hawks. If we won we’d finish 9th if we drew/lost we’d finish 12th. We ended up drawing and then used our better pick to get Gibcus who we couldn’t have gotten otherwise.

If you were in our position would you have wanted to win the game purely for pride or lose to get the better pick?

It's something you can use as copium in the last half of the last match of the season but is more relevant between the bottom 4 clubs.

Even with our 12 players sent for surgery for the Bulldogs game in round 24 last year (season was done) we wanted to win. They gave it a good shot but were overrun. Sliding down the draft a tiny bit was a consolation. But you never want to just become a loser club with a terrible culture.

And Geelong will only bottom out when it is absolutely forced upon us. Most people expected that would be in 2024 but have switched the tune to "you won't win big finals".

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Why is it any thread about Geelong you will find a handful tuggers and always a mention of Dusty? Jealousy? Insecurity?

Did lol at the op date.

It's a one-sided rivalry, put it that way.