Analysis AFl era colliwobbles?

[Mayes2Gray]

Seen a few people teasing our dear friends over at collingwood a moment ago and it got me wondering, from the AFL era, who really are the record holders for most losses in a Gf? So I decided to do some deep diving, extensive research and a simple 5 min google search to get to the bottom of this.

Essendon 2 (90, 01)

West coast 3 (91, 05, 15)

Geelong 5 (92, 94, 95, 08, 20)

Carlton 2 (93, 99)

Sydney 5 (96, 06, 14, 16, 22)

St Kilda 3 (97, 09, 10)

North 1 (98)

Melbourne 1 (00)

Collingwood 4 (02, 03, 11, 18)

Brisbane 1 (04)

Port 1 (07)

Hawthorn 1 (12)

Freo 1 (13)

Adelaide 1 (17)

Gws 1 (19)

wb 1 (21)


So the question is, is it socially acceptable to say Geewobles or Swabbles? Or is colliwobbles here to stay.

 

[Lingsface]

Port finished top many times before securing the 04 premiership luckily they got it eventually!

 

[Danw0w]

Collingwood will join Sydney and Geelong on in a couple of months

 

[Mr Meow]

Seen a few people teasing our dear friends over at collingwood a moment ago and it got me wondering, from the AFL era, who really are the record holders for most losses in a Gf? So I decided to do some deep diving, extensive research and a simple 5 min google search to get to the bottom of this.

Essendon 2 (90, 01)

West coast 3 (91, 05, 15)

Geelong 5 (92, 94, 95, 08, 20)

Carlton 2 (93, 99)

Sydney 5 (96, 06, 14, 16, 22)

St Kilda 3 (97, 09, 10)

North 1 (98)

Melbourne 1 (00)

Collingwood 4 (02, 03, 11, 18)

Brisbane 1 (04)

Port 1 (07)

Hawthorn 1 (12)

Freo 1 (13)

Adelaide 1 (17)

Gws 1 (19)

wb 1 (21)


So the question is, is it socially acceptable to say Geewobles or Swabbles? Or is colliwobbles here to stay.

Geelong through the 90s yeah (4-2 from 2007 onwards), although they faced some tidy teams too. In fact that's the same for Collingwood - only their most recent GF loss was really bad. Dynasty Cats and Lions before that.

Sydney are 0-3 since 2014 (one Dynasty side, twice went in as favourites) so probably have the mantle currently.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

Seen a few people teasing our dear friends over at collingwood a moment ago and it got me wondering, from the AFL era, who really are the record holders for most losses in a Gf? So I decided to do some deep diving, extensive research and a simple 5 min google search to get to the bottom of this.

Essendon 2 (90, 01)

West coast 3 (91, 05, 15)

Geelong 5 (92, 94, 95, 08, 20)

Carlton 2 (93, 99)

Sydney 5 (96, 06, 14, 16, 22)

St Kilda 3 (97, 09, 10)

North 1 (98)

Melbourne 1 (00)

Collingwood 4 (02, 03, 11, 18)

Brisbane 1 (04)

Port 1 (07)

Hawthorn 1 (12)

Freo 1 (13)

Adelaide 1 (17)

Gws 1 (19)

wb 1 (21)


So the question is, is it socially acceptable to say Geewobles or Swabbles? Or is colliwobbles here to stay.

 

[Mr Meow]

Easiest way to do this would be ratios:

Win most/all

Richmond won 3, lost 0 = 100% conversion
Hawthorn won 4, lost 1 = 80% conversion
Brisbane won 3, lost 1 = 75% conversion
Adelaide won 2, lost 1 = 67% conversion
North Melbourne won 2, lost 1 = 67% conversion

Close to 50% strike rate

West Coast won 4, lost 3 = 57% conversion rate
Essendon won 2, lost 2 = 50% conversion
Melbourne won 1, lost 1 = 50% conversion
Port Adelaide won 1, lost 1 = 50% conversion
Bulldogs won 1, lost 1 = 50% conversion
Geelong won 4, lost 5 = 44% conversion

Lose twice as many as they win

Collingwood won 2, lost 4 = 33% conversion
Carlton won 1, lost 2 = 33% conversion
Sydney won 2, lost 5 = 29% conversion

Never win

Fremantle won 0, lost 1 = 0% conversion
GWS won 0, lost 1 = 0% conversion
St Kilda won 0, lost 3 = 0% conversion

Geelong are borderline for joining the lower group, as are West Coast for higher, but both are closer to 50% than they are to the other groups.

Sydney and Collingwood have a serious conversion issue from quite a few chances, but St Kilda 0 for 3 surely take the cake.

 

[Cyclops]

I always thought the word Colliwobbles was coined in the 70s when in the aftermath of 1970 we would finish on or near the top of the ladder only to bomb out of the finals (I think we had some straight sets in there).

The terms been used and abused down the years to describe GF chokes, bottom of the ladder finishes etc. but my impression it was more about straight setting.

Had a peep on Trove and it's mostly the original version of the word "collywobble" meaning crook guts, that meaning goes back to the 1880s IIRC.

 

[pz5151]

Overall number of Grand Final losses isn’t how to judge this. I’m assuming for example in the SANFL that Port has lost more grand finals than many others due to generally being at the top end.

Percentage of grand finals won is better but still not perfect as it doesn’t factor in whether you were the better side and choked or whether you just weren’t good enough.

You need to judge it based on how often a team has gone into a grand final and underperformed, or given up a significant grand final lead mid game.

Geelong in the early 90s was undoubtedly a strong candidate but their later teams were strong in grand finals.

Despite Pies making more than they won, i wouldn’t say we lost any where we were clearly the better team.

2002: overperformed against an all time great side with a team of determined but very average players and a superstar performance from Buckley

2003: froze up under extra pressure from that same team. In retrospect, despite going in as slight favourites, this team was just overrated as they were a step behind the Lions.

2011: lost far more due to the internal politics and Malthouse insisting on playing injured players than anything else.

2018: West Coast were the far better side and deserved the flag. An argument can be launched that they gave up a lead and lost but it wasn’t as if the Pies fell apart, it was a slow grind by the best team in the competition to wear them down over a couple of quarters.

Sydney is a strong candidate also as they were the top team in 96, favourites in 2014 and 2016.

St Kilda would seem to be the most appropriate though as the Colliwobbles didn’t win premierships along the way. You have to not win any premierships. St Kilda has also had the habit of getting extraordinarily close and having freak incidents happen, like a draw, a toe poke goal, a bounce the wrong way, someone taking you apart in the last quarter, etc.

 

[Mayes2Gray]

Geelong through the 90s yeah (4-2 from 2007 onwards), although they faced some tidy teams too. In fact that's the same for Collingwood - only their most recent GF loss was really bad. Dynasty Cats and Lions before that.

Sydney are 0-3 since 2014 (one Dynasty side, twice went in as favourites) so probably have the mantle currently.

Was also the line of thought I had, feeling the 2000-2010 era Team saves them.

 

[Mayes2Gray]

Overall number of Grand Final losses isn’t how to judge this. I’m assuming for example in the SANFL that Port has lost more grand finals than many others due to generally being at the top end.

Percentage of grand finals won is better but still not perfect as it doesn’t factor in whether you were the better side and choked or whether you just weren’t good enough.

You need to judge it based on how often a team has gone into a grand final and underperformed, or given up a significant grand final lead mid game.

Geelong in the early 90s was undoubtedly a strong candidate but their later teams were strong in grand finals.

Despite Pies making more than they won, i wouldn’t say we lost any where we were clearly the better team.

2002: overperformed against an all time great side with a team of determined but very average players and a superstar performance from Buckley

2003: froze up under extra pressure from that same team. In retrospect, despite going in as slight favourites, this team was just overrated as they were a step behind the Lions.

2011: lost far more due to the internal politics and Malthouse insisting on playing injured players than anything else.

2018: West Coast were the far better side and deserved the flag. An argument can be launched that they gave up a lead and lost but it wasn’t as if the Pies fell apart, it was a slow grind by the best team in the competition to wear them down over a couple of quarters.

Sydney is a strong candidate also as they were the top team in 96, favourites in 2014 and 2016.

St Kilda would seem to be the most appropriate though as the Colliwobbles didn’t win premierships along the way. You have to not win any premierships. St Kilda has also had the habit of getting extraordinarily close and having freak incidents happen, like a draw, a toe poke goal, a bounce the wrong way, someone taking you apart in the last quarter, etc.

Yeah. Understand this reasoning too.