Analysis Who is the AFL GOAT - AFL Era?

[owen87]

Not sure I agree with the argument here when Ablett and Dunstall are widely considered two of the all-time great full forwards. Is it Lockett's fault his contemporaries were better than Buddy's contemporaries?

I didn't make any comment as to whether it makes Lockett comparatively better or worse, just a piece of information.

People can (and will) argue til the cows come home about who was better for the next 40 years, and I do think as time passes Franklin will be better appreciated for just how good he's been in an era where players simply aren't able to score like they used to. He'll never be that player who kicked the most goals of all time though, I don't think we'll see an era of goal tallies like the 80s and 90s again unless we have some drastic rule changes.

 

[My Tilly]

Franklin's best years in this era were comfortably better than the next key forward. At his best, in the 21st century nobody gets anywhere near him.

We still had guys putting up the same numbers. Gehrig, Fevola, Lloyd but they were at the back end of their careers 04-08.

Franklin's highest tally after 2008 was 82 goals.
We saw Josh Kennedy match this with 80 goals in 2016.
We may see Jeremy Cameron surpass that this year.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

We still had guys putting up the same numbers. Gehrig, Fevola, Lloyd but they were at the back end of their careers 04-08.

Franklin's highest tally after 2008 was 82 goals.
We saw Josh Kennedy match this with 80 goals in 2016.
We may see Jeremy Cameron surpass that this year.

Post 2008 at Hawthorn he largely played up the ground. But don't let that little fact get in your way. We will never see anybody kick 113 in a season again. And to compare JK's 80 goals is a joke. He's a lead out forward with no other strings to his bow. Franklin gets up the ground and plays as another midfielder whilst posting his numbers.

But yeah, all the olden day players were much, much better and more skillful. I'd have loved to have seen Micky Martin and Spud Frawley hauling arse trying to chase Franklin down. It would have been hilarious. Silvagni would have been an interesting matchup though.

The game is faster, tougher and more skilled now than it ever was. And as a forward, Franklin sits at the top of the modern pile by a very long way. That is inarguable. He's been the best forward to play this game in at least 25 years. And it's not even close. To suggest that he's somehow a rung below Carey, Lockett, etc is truly laughable.

 

[owen87]

Post 2008 at Hawthorn he largely played up the ground. But don't let that little fact get in your way. We will never see anybody kick 113 in a season again. And to compare JK's 80 goals is a joke. He's a lead out forward with no other strings to his bow. Franklin gets up the ground and plays as another midfielder whilst posting his numbers.

But yeah, all the olden day players were much, much better and more skillful. I'd have loved to have seen Micky Martin and Spud Frawley hauling arse trying to chase Franklin down. It would have been hilarious. Silvagni would have been an interesting matchup though.

The game is faster, tougher and more skilled now than it ever was. And as a forward, Franklin sits at the top of the modern pile by a very long way. That is inarguable. He's been the best forward to play this game in at least 25 years. And it's not even close. To suggest that he's somehow a rung below Carey, Lockett, etc is truly laughable.

It's like the opposite of recency bias.... where older players grow ever better and more special, whilst Franklin is looked at as lesser. We'll look back in 20 years at Franklin's career and be arguing about whether Franklin, Carey or Lockett would be the forward we draft first, and inevitably, someone will answer Dunstall and the debate will rage.

 

[ferball]

This is some of the dumbest s**t I’ve ever read on this forum.

Dangerfield’s kicking is simply not precise enough for him to be in a conversation like this but anyone with a single IQ point can see he busts himself every time he sets foot on the ground

That's rubbish, he's huge and has state 100m and 400m titles to name which means he run really fast and has great anaerobic fitness. When he wants to be he is the best contested player in the comp and can be untackleable. But he doesn't do it enough. His entire career before last year was one of missed opportunities.

His career is a massive disappointment given what he was capable of.

Compare his stats to GAJ. Stats aren't everything obviously but GAJ gets the ball nearly 40% more. He's also helped win multiple flags and is genuinely one of the greatest players ever, probably at least top ten of all time. Maybe top five but that's getting pretty subjective. But dangerfield had the natural gifts to be that sort of player. He was just satisfied getting his ego stroked instead of getting the best he could out of himself.

 

[JackOutback]

Post 2008 at Hawthorn he largely played up the ground. But don't let that little fact get in your way. We will never see anybody kick 113 in a season again. And to compare JK's 80 goals is a joke. He's a lead out forward with no other strings to his bow. Franklin gets up the ground and plays as another midfielder whilst posting his numbers.

But yeah, all the olden day players were much, much better and more skillful. I'd have loved to have seen Micky Martin and Spud Frawley hauling arse trying to chase Franklin down. It would have been hilarious. Silvagni would have been an interesting matchup though.

The game is faster, tougher and more skilled now than it ever was. And as a forward, Franklin sits at the top of the modern pile by a very long way. That is inarguable. He's been the best forward to play this game in at least 25 years. And it's not even close. To suggest that he's somehow a rung below Carey, Lockett, etc is truly laughable.

Never say never, the game is constantly changing.

You're also underselling Kennedy, he regularly made his way up the ground, not as much as Buddy, but he was a star in his own right.

It's like the opposite of recency bias.... where older players grow ever better and more special, whilst Franklin is looked at as lesser. We'll look back in 20 years at Franklin's career and be arguing about whether Franklin, Carey or Lockett would be the forward we draft first, and inevitably, someone will answer Dunstall and the debate will rage.

On the contrary, I think most people are saying he's a future legend, one of two or three of the greatest players since 2000. That's a pretty glowing assessment. Posts like the one above suggesting he played like another midfielder is certainly stretching the truth a little. He got up the ground, but he was never another midfielder. There might be a bit of reassessing going on once he retires, but we're comparing him to someone widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time in Carey and Lockett. Suggesting he may be behind them is hardly an insult.

 

[PhatBoy]

That's rubbish, he's huge and has state 100m and 400m titles to name which means he run really fast and has great anaerobic fitness. When he wants to be he is the best contested player in the comp and can be untackleable. But he doesn't do it enough. His entire career before last year was one of missed opportunities.

His career is a massive disappointment given what he was capable of.

Compare his stats to GAJ. Stats aren't everything obviously but GAJ gets the ball nearly 40% more. He's also helped win multiple flags and is genuinely one of the greatest players ever, probably at least top ten of all time. Maybe top five but that's getting pretty subjective. But dangerfield had the natural gifts to be that sort of player. He was just satisfied getting his ego stroked instead of getting the best he could out of himself.

Brownlow, premiership, Gary Ayers Medal, four time best and fairest at two different clubs, 8 time all Australian.

And you think because of the date on the calendar in which that premiership occurred, he doesn’t ‘put in’



You’re off your dial

Mark Blicavs wasn’t junior sprinting champion. He was a near-Olympic standard track athlete….. and he’s massive.

Using your logic he doesn’t put in because he doesn’t have 8 brownlows

 

[PhatBoy]

Being hard to tackle is now the prime metric for whether players try hard enough. That will do me

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Never say never, the game is constantly changing.

You're also underselling Kennedy, he regularly made his way up the ground, not as much as Buddy, but he was a star in his own right.


On the contrary, I think most people are saying he's a future legend, one of two or three of the greatest players since 2000. That's a pretty glowing assessment. Posts like the one above suggesting he played like another midfielder is certainly stretching the truth a little. He got up the ground, but he was never another midfielder. There might be a bit of reassessing going on once he retires, but we're comparing him to someone widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time in Carey and Lockett. Suggesting he may be behind them is hardly an insult.

Suggesting Franklin is behind Lockett and Carey is one thing.

Stating that Lockett is “far far better” than Franklin as Partridge did earlier is patently horseschitte and should be called for the nonsense that it is.

 

[Glorfindel]

It’s useless saying ‘Jesse Owens’ times can’t beat a mediocre modern sprinter so he must have been hopeless.’ Because if Jesse Owens was born 90 years later he’d have had different training methods, conditions, track surfaces, shoes, nutrition, weights etc etc.

and this doesn't even account for PEDs

 

[Tbonefreo]

Judd.

 

[Lex22]

The question is not if you plucked Plugger from the '90s and plugged him unchanged into today's game, how would he go, or vice versa for Buddy. If Lockett was playing now, he'd adapt and so would Buddy. The game constantly changes. We don't judge past players on modern tactics, otherwise we'd be saying Buddy is a million times better than John Coleman because he's far bigger and more mobile than amateurs playing in the '50s.

I agree with that (to an extent), although to be fair I was responding to “And if Lockett played in Buddy's era, where backmen couldn't pull, scrag and hold on, he'd have kicked 150 goals.”

So you’ve done the same thing.

Unless I’ve taken that out of context/missed something?

 

[My Tilly]

It's like the opposite of recency bias.... where older players grow ever better and more special, whilst Franklin is looked at as lesser. We'll look back in 20 years at Franklin's career and be arguing about whether Franklin, Carey or Lockett would be the forward we draft first, and inevitably, someone will answer Dunstall and the debate will rage.

Franklin will go down as arguably the best player of his generation but at the same time, he had flaws which Carey didn't.

Franklin was never a good kick on the opposite leg.
He was never a pack marking option. Just imagine if the bloke could jump. We could be talking about the all-time GOAT if that was the case.
Unlike Carey, he never sustained a career altering injury which forced him to evolve and become a more complete footballer.

 

[Seedsfan]

Nick Daicos

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Nick Daicos

It's already set in stone

 

[South of the Yarra]

No one mentioned has played as many great games as what Pendles has in the AFL era. I am not suggesting he is the best player of the modern era but he has certainly played the most consistent high level football out of anyone.

 

[Hawksboy72]

Tim O'Brien

22

Tim O'brien

Age

30

Ht

193cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

163.8

3star

D

5.9

1star

K

4.4

2star

HB

1.4

1star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.1

3star

MG

119.4

2star

D

7.2

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

MG

307.0

5star

 

[Lingsface]

Garry Ablett jnr

 

[BigVic]

Dusty at this stage. Won 3 Norm Smith Medals, 3 flags and 1 Brownlow Medal in a 4 year timeframe from 2017-2020.

 

[Glorfindel]

Dusty at this stage. Won 3 Norm Smith Medals, 3 flags and 1 Brownlow Medal in a 4 year timeframe from 2017-2020.

Could make a case if you were talking about the best 4-5 year periods but GAJ, Buddy, Carey (and a few others) have him covered due to longevity.

 

[tastiger]

1. Wayne Carey
2. Dustin Martin.
3. Michael Voss.
I haven't included guys that play a lot of footy in the 80s.

On VOG-L09 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Warhorse]

Only including players who played exclusively in the AFL era:

Ablett Jr.
Franklin

Nobody else even comes close to these two.

My thoughts exactly.

Ive acknowledged that Fyfe can’t joust with gaz for careers but for those that can’t recall 13,14,15 Fyfe here’s a snippet from a pies supporter on bigfooty 2009 draft thread written in mid 2015 doing a redraft:


Pick 1 (Melbourne) – Nathan Fyfe
Nat Fyfe is 90 kilograms and 190 centimetres of elite AFL material. He was astoundingly selected at pick 20 (let that sink in for a few seconds) by the Dockers in 2009. Fyfe has probably overtaken Gary Ablett as the best player in the competition. He is already a superstar at just 23. He is almost unmatchable and unbeatable on the field.

Fyfe can destroy you in the midfield with his ball winning, ball efficiency and tackling. He can push forward and take a highlight grab and kick a few goals. Or, if that wasn’t good enough, he can be put down back to steady the tide. In just five seasons, he’s won two best and fairest awards at Fremantle, an All-Australian slot in 2014, as well as the ALFPA’s MVP, and came second in the Brownlow last year.

Did I mention he hasn’t even played 100 games yet? He’s averaging ridiculously scary numbers over his career – 25 disposals, five marks, four tackles and almost a goal a game.



By the end of 2015 he finished with his first Brownlow and second AA, MVP becoming one of 5 to do so

Gets marked down for longevity. I have him around dusty or a touch below. What sets Ablett out from the rest are his remarkable footskills for a contested midfielder and that's the only weakness in Fyfe's game

 

[tastiger]

Could make a case if you were talking about the best 4-5 year periods but GAJ, Buddy, Carey (and a few others) have him covered due to longevity.

Martin was great straight off the bat. Averaged around 20 possession and a goal a game. Rag dolling senior players from other side like they were nothing.

On VOG-L09 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Carey
GAJ

They're the two that stand out to me, and in that order.

 

[Elite Master]

No one mentioned has played as many great games as what Pendles has in the AFL era. I am not suggesting he is the best player of the modern era but he has certainly played the most consistent high level football out of anyone.

Hate to say it but I think Pendles has a very strong chance at acclipsing Boomer's VFL/AFL games record of 432 games.