Rumour GFC 2020 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists

[Pure_Ownage]

Terrific idea.

I do like it in practice..strikes the right balance between freedom of movement and top clubs stacking up on FAs...whether the afl and the PA could agree on it though is another matter.

 

[afl genius]

Geelong’s location just works wonders for us and players wanting to be in Victoria but not melbourne. Can see, definitely in this day and age, a lot of players who would much prefer a more laid back lifestyle out in country regions as opposed to the hustle and bustle of the melbourne footy bubble.

Use to work against us back on the day I think, it was always “who’d want to live down that way”.

Tbh it’s no wonder Cookie is getting phone calls and text messages from player managers potentially interested in coming to Geelong, to be part of an ongoing successful club, good leadership and culture, and a great lifestyle.

100% this, thought this might happen a lot when they introduced FA so was quietly confident Cats would get an advantage. 9 out of 10 clubs in Victoria offer the same lifestyle and the great ocean road region is arguably the best part of Victoria. Chuck in that Geelong produce alot of footballers and the go home factor (Danger,Dalhaus,Stevens, Cameron?) is strong I think we should be hopeful the AFL don't change the rules surrounding FA

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Replace independent afl panel with model based on on wage/age/contract length

They should have gotten rid of the bands as soon as they released dvi

Agreed on the first count.
The bands distort it because they give unequal values for players in the same band depending on their clubs ladder position (for example frawley p2 franklin 19 etc)..the idea of a formula to assign each player a 1-72 pick value is better and fairer to my eye.

 

[cats_09]

I'm so confused about English - is he good or not? They seem to want to persist with him regardless. Is he just young and inexperienced?

Pick #19 in the 2016 draft, turned 23 a couple of months ago but only played the 47 games

Obviously he's still developing - on the club website he's listed as 205cm & 93kg, which seems a lighter frame than other rucks, especially at his height

I'm not what support the club really have for him in terms of his development. Looking at their list this year they only have 2 recognised rucks, English & Jordon Sweet who is a 22yr old rookie that hasn't played a game - so it's no real surprise that persist with him as they don't really have many options

I didn't watch a great deal of Bulldogs games this year, but when I did it wasn't uncommon to see Dunkley or Bruce being used in the ruck over English who they seemed to favour more up forward at times.

I might be totally wrong on this, but believe I've read previously that during the in under age comps English was a midfielder until the last year or 2 before his draft year when he has a significant growth spurt, and was kinda thrown into the ruck. Maybe if he had a more senior ruck around him to work with him & for him to learn from it would help

 

[BORIS332]

I'm so confused about English - is he good or not? They seem to want to persist with him regardless. Is he just young and inexperienced?

He's no good. There was the hype about him originally being a midfielder before a massive growth spurt - which was supposed to make him into the prototype modern day ruckman, but he's just not good.

 

[BORIS332]

Pick #19 in the 2016 draft, turned 23 a couple of months ago but only played the 47 games

Obviously he's still developing - on the club website he's listed as 205cm & 93kg, which seems a lighter frame than other rucks, especially at his height

I'm not what support the club really have for him in terms of his development. Looking at their list this year they only have 2 recognised rucks, English & Jordon Sweet who is a 22yr old rookie that hasn't played a game - so it's no real surprise that persist with him as they don't really have many options

I didn't watch a great deal of Bulldogs games this year, but when I did it wasn't uncommon to see Dunkley or Bruce being used in the ruck over English who they seemed to favour more up forward at times.

I might be totally wrong on this, but believe I've read previously that during the in under age comps English was a midfielder until the last year or 2 before his draft year when he has a significant growth spurt, and was kinda thrown into the ruck. Maybe if he had a more senior ruck around him to work with him & for him to learn from it would help

They played English ahead of Tom Campbell

38

Tom Campbell

Age

32

Ht

201cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

17.0

5star

D

5.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

2.0

1star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

2.0

5star

D

7.2

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

3.0

3star

CL

1.2

4star

HO

13.2

5star

all year in the 2019 season, and eventually off-loaded Campbell to the Roos.

 

[dazbroncos]

I dont want to lose Simpson or Sav though.

Sav can sit and build for another year and cover Tomma as the cliff for him arrives... and it will.
Granted its not here yet - but tis coming.
As for Simmo - he as a FS wont be going anywhere and the downside of trading out a FS that has grafted his way up the positional ladder to force his way in from last Rookie picked to GF selection on merit not availability would be catastrophic.

It would rip the ethos of what the club internally values apart and is too counter productive to allow. WE will lose someone im sure of that - but not those 2.

GO Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

I'd happily trade Esava and a first round pick for Jezza. Once Jez arrives there's no KPF spot for Esava. Post-Hawkins, our marking forwards will be Jez and Danger. I don't think Esava will ever make it as a ruckman, he's only 197cm and I doubt his tank will ever reach the required level.

nope sorry

GO Catters

 

[Spearman]

I seriously can't understand anyone thinking of giving them one of our young players who have demonstrated they should be in the 22 next year. Parfitt, Miers, Simpson, Sava? RUFKM? These guys are the heart of the future 22 as well as being in it now.
Unless one of them really wants to go the city up north, GWS are in Dodo territory asking for one.
We have some guys who have played in the ones, who could possibly make it on another club, and who could probably get delisted due to list contraction. A couple of them and a pick?

 

[Tristan34]

I seriously can't understand anyone thinking of giving them one of our young players who have demonstrated they should be in the 22 next year. Parfitt, Miers, Simpson, Sava? RUFKM? These guys are the heart of the future 22 as well as being in it now.
Unless one of them really wants to go the city up north, GWS are in Dodo territory asking for one.
We have some guys who have played in the ones, who could possibly make it on another club, and who could probably get delisted due to list contraction. A couple of them and a pick?

I dont get why they want players. Few players actually want to go there and the ones that do are chasing coin...

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I dont get why they want players. Few players actually want to go there and the ones that do are chasing coin...

I don't think they actually do. It's a threat to make the trade ugly if we don't give them what they want.

 

[BORIS332]

Article.

It is believed Parfitt and two first-rounders or Parfitt, Esava Ratugolea

27

Esava Ratugolea

Age

25

Ht

197cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.6

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.2

4star

MG

131.6

2star

D

8.1

2star

K

4.3

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.5

3star

MG

109.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

133.8

3star

and a first-round selection would be enough for the Giants to hand over Cameron.

Hahahaha.

 

[Turbocat]

The problem with any alternative is it starts to resemble something very much like what we have for a long time called “trading”. We’ve got to remember that free agency is fundamentally a player driven concept, grounded in freedom of players providing their services to the highest bidder (or whomever they choose). Any restriction on that is, by definition, a restriction on the freedom of players. Now, I’m not saying they should have absolute freedom, but it is worthwhile to bear in mind why the concept exists in the first place. What we also need, however, is to have some protections against lower sides getting pillaged of their best talent. That has to be some form of compensation. Maybe there’s a Better way of doing it than we have now, but I actually think some degree of progressiveness in the compensation is appropriate.

Im not against looking at a different way of doing it... Looking at different ideas , trying to improve it but I probably have a preference to less complexity rather than more. The bidding system with the draft for example to balance things has made the system hard for a lot to understand.

To me the fundamental push from managers and others in the industry show they think the solution is no comp...that when you lose someone that cap space is your comp. Once you have the cap space, you go to market and go get someone... but to me for that to work it would need more FA's on the market to work.

If every player after 4 years become a FA maybe there would be enough FA's available to balance it out. You will never be able to replace a Franklin or an Ablett or a Cameron ..but the cap space will allow you to top up and replace. Maybe get two good players rather than one good one.
The trouble is, atm there is not enough stock on market to do it like that.

There is also the issue of the a inherent natural attraction some clubs will have. West Coast will draw WA player..we probably have a good chance with Vic Country kids. Clubs with no natural attraction and not a strong side and potential success will probably not be able to draw FA's in AFL.

If the issue is going to top teams then maybe a salcap tax is worth a look. Its obvious players like Lynch take less to go to top teams that they would want at bottom teams. An extra 20.30% what ever on teams that are finalists.?

I think the issue of comp is not worst affect of FA/player movement..its the reduction in the value of the draft. The draft worked better when once drafted players stayed ..like Corey or Mackie or Enright. If guys like that had decided to move when we were building ..id imagine our list build might have struggled... a lot of that is the change of attitude. It see club grouping draft picks.. its been rumoured for eg that the Crows might like to draft McDonald this year and would draft his mate ODriscoll to help secure him.

 

[BORIS332]

Im not against looking at a different way of doing it... Looking at different ideas , trying to improve it but I probably have a preference to less complexity rather than more. The bidding system with the draft for example to balance things has made the system hard for a lot to understand.

To me the fundamental push from managers and others in the industry show they think the solution is no comp...that when you lose someone that cap space is your comp. Once you have the cap space, you go to market and go get someone... but to me for that to work it would need more FA's on the market to work.

If every player after 4 years become a FA maybe there would be enough FA's available to balance it out. You will never be able to replace a Franklin or an Ablett or a Cameron ..but the cap space will allow you to top up and replace. Maybe get two good players rather than one good one.
The trouble is, atm there is not enough stock on market to do it like that.

There is also the issue of the a inherent natural attraction some clubs will have. West Coast will draw WA player..we probably have a good chance with Vic Country kids. Clubs with no natural attraction and not a strong side and potential success will probably not be able to draw FA's in AFL.

If the issue is going to top teams then maybe a salcap tax is worth a look. Its obvious players like Lynch take less to go to top teams that they would want at bottom teams. An extra 20.30% what ever on teams that are finalists.?

I think the issue of comp is not worst affect of FA/player movement..its the reduction in the value of the draft. The draft worked better when once drafted players stayed ..like Corey or Mackie or Enright. If guys like that had decided to move when we were building ..id imagine our list build might have struggled... a lot of that is the change of attitude. It see club grouping draft picks.. its been rumoured for eg that the Crows might like to draft McDonald this year and would draft his mate ODriscoll to help secure him.

The biggest problem with free agency is the compensation calculation. Of course GWS will not accept p10 for Cameron when they've traded out MIDs for two first-rounders, they know they can get at least that for a relatively young Coleman medallist. The compensation needs to make them question whether they'd get more at the trade table or not, which in this case there's no question.

 

[BigCat1]

Article.



Hahahaha.

Now a 28 yr old RFA Cameron (coming off a terrible year) value has Suddenly become more than a 23 year old Chris Judd.

 

[BigCat1]

The biggest problem with free agency is the compensation calculation. Of course GWS will not accept p10 for Cameron when they've traded out MIDs for two first-rounders, they know they can get at least that for a relatively young Coleman medallist. The compensation needs to make them question whether they'd get more at the trade table or not, which in this case there's no question.

Please don’t fall into the media trap of only reporting half of those trades. It’s like saying we traded a 1st rounder for Ablett and Touhy and a second rounder for Jenkins. It suits agendas

As a Geelong man call it out

 

[catempire]

If the issue is going to top teams then maybe a salcap tax is worth a look. Its obvious players like Lynch take less to go to top teams that they would want at bottom teams. An extra 20.30% what ever on teams that are finalists.?

This is similar to what I was thinking. If you lose a FA you get something like x times their salary freed up in your TPP where x depends on your ladder position that year. I don’t think the “normal” cap space alone is enough for the struggling teams. They need to be able to dangle a big carrot. Even then it won’t always be enough but it should help some.

 

[Johnny Cattery]

Have you seen this guy play, he is a star, if we get him our forward line is the best the comp.

He was a few years ago. I didn't see anything like that this year. The assumption seems to be that he was unhappy and so will revert to his glory days as soon as he's in the hoops. He well might; but also, he might not, so we should be working out the price on the basis of all possibilities, not just one.

I really, really don't want to lose two first round picks for a 28 year old who we are very likely to get fewer than a hundred games from, but can see that that might happen.

 

[Turbocat]

This is similar to what I was thinking. If you lose a FA you get something like x times their salary freed up in your TPP where x depends on your ladder position that year. I don’t think the “normal” cap space alone is enough for the struggling teams. They need to be able to dangle a big carrot. Even then it won’t always be enough but it should help some.

I have heard some comp somewhere does it like this... top teams 130% of wage in cap ..bottom team. 70% of wage in comp. Then players will have to take a lot less to move to a top team.. and would be very hard to add multiple FA's. Bottom team conversely could pay big dollars.

Lets say in a Cameron situation. We offer him 1M... 1.3M in cap. where as North Melb offer him 1.M ..and 700 is in their cap... the flow on would see probably twice the offer at North.

Your comp in cap ..would work as well.. Lets say Cameron going, GWS a non finals team means they get a SalCap boost for 2 years..

Is that enough in all cases? Probably not but it would be enough for more players that have been at successful clubs to move ..like what happened with the Rich player that moved to GC. Still more FA's are required for it to work properly . Really if someone is ooc .. in theory.. they should be a FA

 

[year of the cat]

Article.



Hahahaha.

Preempted that. That GWS would come for Ratagolea that is.

 

[Turbocat]

Preempted that. That GWS would come for Ratagolea that is.

If its Sav and he is willing to go then the club probably do it. Would Clark go to GWS? He could get them a pick from Freo (potentially)... but imo Parfitt is off the table. If That is that their demand then ww walk away and bunker down...like we did with Kelly... Being fair and equal minded is fine ..as long as you deal with fair and equal minded.

 

[year of the cat]

If its Sav and he is willing to go then the club probably do it. Would Clark go to GWS? He could get them a pick from Freo (potentially)... but imo Parfitt is off the table. If That is that their demand then ww walk away and bunker down...like we did with Kelly... Being fair and equal minded is fine ..as long as you deal with fair and equal minded.

Parfitt and Simpson are definite no's. I'd be very reluctant to let Clark go but if we were offered pick 10 then you'd have to consider it if there's likely to be a go home factor down the track. I'd trade Sav knowing we have Kreuger and De Koning in the wings. We could also take a tall in the draft. Ratagolea has promise but he's not expendable. Would pick 18 plus Rata be enough?

 

[Hello Kitty]

That's another vagary of the system. GC don't match purely because their ladder position that year allowed them to get a high pick. We aren't quite as lucky (or seem not to be if the reports of GWS matching are true). The whole system needs a review and shake up. You either have FA or you don't. And if you do then should compensation be given? Should the top 4 clubs in a given year be entitled to raid the lower clubs wares?

Yes.

Bottom finishing Clubs receive the best draft pics.

FA usually serve their time at their Clubs + want to return home. Dangerfield + Cameron joined their Clubs as kids + fulfilled their obligations. A contracted Kelly, tried to bail after one year + he was older.

It’s illogical for the League + fans to expect FAs to go to less successful Clubs.

Geelong has always been very fair + good to negotiate with, over trades.

I’m in two minds about compensation. After giving years of service + not securing the player, who wants to go home, or join a successful Club, one would think the compensation is in the contribution the player made, attracting fans, + money earned, by the Club.

Then there are trades, where the Club, the player is leaving, pays their salary for a year.

I agree, the system is a mess + compensation is wrong when you’re dealing with FA. RFA is another matter.

 

[Turbocat]

Parfitt and Simpson are definite no's. I'd be very reluctant to let Clark go but if we were offered pick 10 then you'd have to consider it if there's likely to be a go home factor down the track. I'd trade Sav knowing we have Kreuger and De Koning in the wings. We could also take a tall in the draft. Ratagolea has promise but he's not expendable. Would pick 18 plus Rata be enough?

Who knows...but I doubt it. Imo It would be P11 ..and a future pick and Sav.


I have been against Cameron as anything but a FA from day1 ....This is why.

 

[frggr]

Pick #19 in the 2016 draft, turned 23 a couple of months ago but only played the 47 games

Obviously he's still developing - on the club website he's listed as 205cm & 93kg, which seems a lighter frame than other rucks, especially at his height

I'm not what support the club really have for him in terms of his development. Looking at their list this year they only have 2 recognised rucks, English & Jordon Sweet who is a 22yr old rookie that hasn't played a game - so it's no real surprise that persist with him as they don't really have many options

I didn't watch a great deal of Bulldogs games this year, but when I did it wasn't uncommon to see Dunkley or Bruce being used in the ruck over English who they seemed to favour more up forward at times.

I might be totally wrong on this, but believe I've read previously that during the in under age comps English was a midfielder until the last year or 2 before his draft year when he has a significant growth spurt, and was kinda thrown into the ruck. Maybe if he had a more senior ruck around him to work with him & for him to learn from it would help

That explains it well, thank you!