Rumour GFC 2020 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists

[Turbocat]

Fort I think it's improving but he's still a way off. They did cat b list schlensog and he is rucking scratch matches.

I think the second round pick we have this year is a good option for a ruck

Fort is what he is ..and he may keep getting better but Im not expecting a huge leap forward in performance because one doesnt see a Luke Jackson in him. I still remember Rod Blake to a long time to really do anything.. different era...

Personally Im fine if we draft a young guys as a rookie and then also trade someone in who is closer to being ready... like Dek brother at Carlton.. com pared to some clubs we are two or three ruck size type short

 

[Turbocat]

From the sounds of it there aren't any rucks in this draft that anyone is sure will be an afl player. Highly probable that pick would be a total loss

Its not a year to have R1 picks and want a ruckman.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Traditional rebuilds worked back when the afl was handing out priority picks like candy.

Now the difference in the side that wins the premiership and the one that gets the spoon is pick 1. If you pick Tom Boyd at pick 1 then all your other picks are after the side that win the flag.

People have swallowed the AFL selling point that short term failure builds long term success, but the reality looks like the two aren't related.

Should we be playing more kids? Yeah, but only because we'd want to have more information on the ooc kids.

agree with all that.

let’s look At the 2018 off season... Richmond finished 1st after HA... they got Tom lynch free agent... Carlton finished last and got Sam Walsh...

Who gained more in the off season?? The wooden spooner or the HA minor premiers??

with free agency we will continue to see lots of situations like this.

hawthorn took franklin rough head with picks 2/5... Richmond took deledio and rambling with picks 1/3...

Draft picks need to be nailed and utilized, but they are no guarantee to success and a gamble themselves.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I remember us doing the same thing with Ryan Bathie and it didn't pan out.
Again, not a fan of going for big blokes who switched sports later on. Their skills are not AFL standard.

costs us nothing why not take a chance? A lot of first round ruckman also don’t pan out.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The one mentioned earlier in here? Link or grapevine? Till I see these guys play im sceptical of getting anything from them ..but at that size its promising

grapevine based off our forums. No Info myself

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I watched the carnival too and it want not quite as black and white as you say.....

I mention PA yes cause after the went for Motlop etc ..they did a quick u turn and went to draft

I wouldn't even call it a u-turn. The trade that got them the Connor Rozee pick was the same trade that got them Sam Mayes.

I also think there a lot of parallels with what port are doing and what we are. We're accused of bringing in too many older players but consider Watts, Rockliff, Trengove, Mayes, Motlop, Lycett, Ryder. Drove hard bargains for Windgard and Polec and ended up with three firsts in a draft, parallels with Kelly trade a bit. If we can get a halfway comparable return like Port did I'll be impressed

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Its not a year to have R1 picks and want a ruckman.

We do have a rd2

 

[Turbocat]

costs us nothing why not take a chance? A lot of first round ruckman also don’t pan out.

A lot of R1 rucks dont work out? Id say most ruck are not picked in r1 .. Its changed over the years from when Cruzer was P1. Id say for every early pick like NicNat or slightly later English or Grundy... there would be players like Gawn that come from much further back in the draft. Having a Rookie B ruck is a good approach to my way of thinking ..as long as we dont bet the farm on it all it working. We still need to realise all draft picks can fail but Rookie B's would be a very long shot of working... for example how does this kid compare to Bradke at Melb? Blitz has been a find.. but how many of our Rookie B's have worked?

I think you have not quite grasped my pov one what I want at draft but thats OK we are all allowed an opinion.

Im not against mature players but what I feel is we can not build a list on them , and successful sides have their best player group built around draft. Other sports are different. The player number is afl is so much more than something like basketball. In the AFL, has any club won a flag without a single figure pick that they drafted? No sure but I can't think of too many. We didnt . We drafted them and traded them in.

Selwood Hawkins whether he is #1 or not were very high talents, and we had others , and we had FS's that became that good. That type of talent is usually added thru draft not trade. Its cost too much or its just not available enough as FA. Danger is an outlier and can't be relied on to be repeated.

Its not like we have not drafted. Since 2016 we have gone hard at the draft, 30 odd picks... but im not convinced we have a future B&F winner in that group , the obvious one is in WA now, so I feel we have to not only go hard at draft but we need to add more of the best talent we can get at, unfortunately the tail end of R1 is a lot more flakey than the start of R1. Unless something unusually happens ..we again will not get into the draft till 13 or 14 this year .. makes it very difficult to get what we need without pain and going backwards for a while.

 

[Turbocat]

We do have a rd2

Thats true and if the club decided that there is one worth that pick then fine. I was hoping Walsh would be that pick ..very hard to gauge this year.

 

[Turbocat]

I wouldn't even call it a u-turn. The trade that got them the Connor Rozee pick was the same trade that got them Sam Mayes.

I also think there a lot of parallels with what port are doing and what we are. We're accused of bringing in too many older players but consider Watts, Rockliff, Trengove, Mayes, Motlop, Lycett, Ryder. Drove hard bargains for Windgard and Polec and ended up with three firsts in a draft, parallels with Kelly trade a bit. If we can get a halfway comparable return like Port did I'll be impressed

They went from bringing in mature players to hard at draft and early at the draft .. in that sense U turn.

Right now is their success being driven more by Motlop, Rockliff, Watts or the kids they drafted. My point is they out trade a player to get early in the draft and had three picks in a draft that they assessed as one to go hard at. Of course they have others as well NO side is 100% one thing ... but list their ten best players , id say most are drafted..

 

[geelong_crazy26]

A lot of R1 rucks dont work out? Id say most ruck are not picked in r1 .. Its changed over the years from when Cruzer was P1. Id say for every early pick like NicNat or slightly later English or Grundy... there would be players like Gawn that come from much further back in the draft. Having a Rookie B ruck is a good approach to my way of thinking ..as long as we dont bet the farm on it all it working. We still need to realise all draft picks can fail but Rookie B's would be a very long shot of working... for example how does this kid compare to Bradke at Melb? Blitz has been a find.. but how many of our Rookie B's have worked?

I think you have not quite grasped my pov one what I want at draft but thats OK we are all allowed an opinion.

Im not against mature players but what I feel is we can not build a list on them , and successful sides have their best player group built around draft. Other sports are different. The player number is afl is so much more than something like basketball. In the AFL has any club won a flag without a single figure pick that they drafted? No sure but I can't think of too many. We didnt . We drafted them and traded them in.

Selwood Hawkins whether he is #1 or not were very high talents, and we had others , and we had FS's that became that good. That type of talent is usually added thru draft not trade. Its cost too much or its just not available enough as FA. Danger is an outlier and can't be relied on to be repeated.

Its not like we have not drafted. Since 2016 we have gone hard at the draft, 30 odd picks... but im not convinced we have a future B&F winner in that group , the obvious one is in WA now, so I feel we have to not only go hard at draft but we need to add more of the best talent we can get at, unfortunately the tail end of R1 is a lot more flakey than the start of R1. Unless something unusually happens ..we again will not get into the draft till 13 or 14 this year .. makes it very difficult to get what we need without pain and going backwards for a while.

agree with all of that and I can’t recall going against it or ever saying contrary. Feel the necessity to utilize the draft is obvious and unavoidable, all I am adding is that we can’t neglect gaining value through trading and free agency as opportunities beckon. Free agency has changed a lot of the landscape and the best sides now utilize all avenues where as before you could get away with just nailing the draft. Now it isnt as straight cut

 

[CatToTheFuture]

They went from bringing in mature players to hard at draft and early at the draft .. in that sense U turn. Right now is their success being driven more by Motlop, Rockliff, Watts or the kids they drafted. My point is they out trade a player to get early in the draft and had three picks in a draft that they assessed as one to go hard at. Of course they have others as well NO side is 100% one thing ... but list their ten best players , id say most are drafted..

I don't think they changed strategy much. They just played the hand they had well. Windgard and Polec wanted out and they got the best they could for them which was pretty out of this world. They took those picks to the draft partly because they had to. They'd never have got the same value for them in a trade. Plus it wasn't just that draft they up and decided to pick kids. Willem Drew, Kane Farrell those kinds of kids they've been drafting the whole time.

Their strategy i think is the largely the same as ours. Value picks of older players keeping the spine together while kids develop at their own pace. It just looks different because their older players aren't as good or they're injured and they had picks that netted them kids who were immediately ready.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

They went from bringing in mature players to hard at draft and early at the draft .. in that sense U turn.

Right now is their success being driven more by Motlop, Rockliff, Watts or the kids they drafted. My point is they out trade a player to get early in the draft and had three picks in a draft that they assessed as one to go hard at. Of course they have others as well NO side is 100% one thing ... but list their ten best players , id say most are drafted..

Add also to that port basically got all of that success from one super draft. Which also throws in the question of timing and quality of the drafr when you happen to be going at your rebuild. This year doesnt seem to be a year touted very highly for chasing quality cream kids at the top pointy end.

The likelihood of landing a rozee zak butters and duursma are very slim.

We also built our premiership team off the back of essentially a super draft and the 99 draft which was a very good one also...

If wells views the draft as a spud trading for quality players wouldnt be a bad bet.

 

[Turbocat]

agree with all of that and I can’t recall going against it or ever saying contrary. Feel the necessity to utilize the draft is obvious and unavoidable, all I am adding is that we can’t neglect gaining value through trading and free agency as opportunities beckon. Free agency has changed a lot of the landscape and the best sides now utilize all avenues where as before you could get away with just nailing the draft. Now it isnt as straight cut

Its very easy to get sidetrack.... this discussion started when it was discussed about trading a truck load of players out , other said we would not get much for them etc. .

My point was simply that playing what Jack Dyer used to call good ordinary players can hold us off the floor , make us a better side etc but maybe its like treading water to a degree.... if we need better talent and the only way to get it is to trade out, lose FA or drop for a while ..then unless we are at the right list profile age adding these middle men can be the wrong way to go. I name Simon Arnott back near 20 years ago as to the way Thompson made a choice on that type of GOP and started to play the drafted kids that were our future. The difference is that we have not really dropped away to get the type of talent Thompson had at his dispossal.

What I see is that our big quality best players are coming to their end..but they are still our best players. Take our 29 plus players out of our side ... and who is AA standard ? Im not against being smart and adding player thru trade...as I have said before the trade in of the right ruck would save us 3-4 years of development. Once we start to slide , we will not be the destination club we have become accustom to, behind the scenes id be talking to a young high talent mid that we could add but they are hard to persuade to move and hard to persuade to come to use. Name the best ten young mids, very hard to see how we get them.I have repeatedly mentioned Ben King If I could trade in Ben King with our picks Id look at that but I think thats cooked for a while now. That leaves us with the less ideal Peter Wright.

So... for every player we trade in ..we probably need 3-4 that we have drafted.

As much as Clarkson gets plaudits for the top ups, he won flags off the back of Hodge and Buddy and Smith and Lewis and Roughead etc. Drafted. If the change FA to 6 years or less then FA would really change it.

 

[Turbocat]

Add also to that port basically got all of that success from one super draft. Which also throws in the question of timing and quality of the drafr when you happen to be going at your rebuild. This year doesnt seem to be a year touted very highly for chasing quality cream kids at the top pointy end.

The likelihood of landing a rozee zak butters and duursma are very slim.

We also built our premiership team off the back of essentially a super draft and the 99 draft which was a very good one also...

If wells views the draft as a spud trading for quality players wouldnt be a bad bet.

Timing is important, they have stated that they were tactical and decided 18 was the one to go hard at

 

[Turbocat]

I don't think they changed strategy much. They just played the hand they had well. Windgard and Polec wanted out and they got the best they could for them which was pretty out of this world. They took those picks to the draft partly because they had to. They'd never have got the same value for them in a trade. Plus it wasn't just that draft they up and decided to pick kids. Willem Drew, Kane Farrell those kinds of kids they've been drafting the whole time.

Their strategy i think is the largely the same as ours. Value picks of older players keeping the spine together while kids develop at their own pace. It just looks different because their older players aren't as good or they're injured and they had picks that netted them kids who were immediately ready.

They were willing to trade wingard out ..it gained them Dursma. and they had a single figure pick in Rozze...which we have not had for 14 years. I doubt in their position we would have traded out Wiguard.

The right picks and the right trade can make any particular approach look brilliant ..if Henderson and Smith and Clark etc had all worked who knows but every way has its failures.. We had Tenace at draft as well.

We have to find a way to replace our 29 plus top end players soon. Take everyone 29 and over out of the side Id say it would get ugly , our talent is slanted towards the rear of their career and can't see us replacing an establishing the best ten players, to build the foundation of the next group thru Danger like trades.

List our best players in order ..IMO We have not got one young player who we can say is in our best 5 players, perhaps best 10... so that why I say we need to mine for talent.

Put this way ... is Parfitt our next Corey or Bartel or Mackie or Selwood etc. Is Parfitt our next AA level player? He shows some potential but Im not convinced yet...and he is just one player. He maybe a good player but if he is our best player in 5 years time I hope he has improved a bit.

 

[Jimmy Willis Jawline]

What about Dek? I thought he can play in the ruck?

 

[dazbroncos]

Riley Thilthorpe could be there for us as he has been touted as going within the top 20.
Last I read, he's over 200cm tall and can also play forward.

is he not a SA kid with the Crows picking #1?

GO Catters

 

[CatToTheFuture]

They were willing to trade wingard out ..it gained them Dursma. and they had a single figure pick in Rozze...which we have not had for 14 years. I doubt in their position we would have traded out Wiguard.

The right picks and the right trade can make any particular approach look brilliant ..if Henderson and Smith and Clark etc had all worked who knows but every way has its failures.. We had Tenace at draft as well.

We have to find a way to replace our 29 plus top end players soon. Take everyone 29 and over out of the side Id say it would get ugly , our talent is slanted towards the rear of their career and can't see us replacing an establishing the best ten players, to build the foundation of the next group thru Danger like trades.

List our best players in order ..IMO We have not got one young player who we can say is in our best 5 players, perhaps best 10... so that why I say we need to mine for talent.

Put this way ... is Parfitt our next Corey or Bartel or Mackie or Selwood etc. Is Parfitt our next AA level player? He shows some potential but Im not convinced yet...and he is just one player. He maybe a good player but if he is our best player in 5 years time I hope he has improved a bit.

Wouldn't we? We actively shopped Motlop and Varcoe around for years. The difference is we didn't have buyers but port found their mark.

The only players we've really had offers on that I recall have been kelly and caddy which we accepted, and Duncan for Ablett and Hall which would have been a terrible decision. There was talk of Constable going to the saints but no offers made and they didn't have anything to trade anyway.

If we wanted to trade a player out i can't think of any we would get more back on than we lose.

 

[Turbocat]

Wouldn't we? We actively shopped Motlop and Varcoe around for years. The difference is we didn't have buyers but port found their mark.

The only players we've really had offers on that I recall have been kelly and caddy which we accepted, and Duncan for Ablett and Hall which would have been a terrible decision. There was talk of Constable going to the saints but no offers made and they didn't have anything to trade anyway.

If we wanted to trade a player out i can't think of any we would get more back on than we lose.

Fair point. Varcoe was told to look around ...not sure on Motlop but perhaps. but Id say generally we do not make choices that mean we enhance our drafting prospects.

On the offers thing.. I suspect if we were at the table , there would be offers on half the list every year.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Fair point. Varcoe was told to look around ...not sure on Motlop but perhaps. but Id say generally we do not make choices that mean we enhance our drafting prospects.

On the offers thing.. I suspect if we were at the table , there would be offers on half the list every year.

I think Clark is the only one we'd get a first for and we'd be losing that trade

 

[foxdog50]

Fort I think it's improving but he's still a way off. They did cat b list schlensog and he is rucking scratch matches.

I think the second round pick we have this year is a good option for a ruck

Know any names of any kid rucks may fit that mould?

 

[foxdog50]

apparently we have gone and signed a category B rookie basketball 19 year old who is 204cm well built and athletic. So let’s see how that turns out

I still havnt seen any articles of him been linked to us apart from post on BigFooty

 

[Pure_Ownage]

is he not a SA kid with the Crows picking #1?

GO Catters

He is.

 

[dazbroncos]

He is.

thought so.. we are no chance there

Go Catters