Mega Thread Hardwick Vent Thread

[TheProwler]

West Coasts turn around has come mainly on the back of improved years from guys like Cox Glass Kerr Embley Priddis A Selwood Nicoski Lynch & Hurn who are all players with a minimum 90 games and 8 years experience under their belts. They have also been helped by guys like Kennedy S. Selwood & Ebert stepping up.

Going to be interesting to see how they fair in a few years time when those older blokes, most of who are 28+, retire and have to be replaced by kids.

You could say the same about Geelong too I guess, but I would take where they are now though

Seriously all we need now is for Tuck to be the sub and I seriously will be shifting on my stance on Dimma. Lack of a game plan and any form of a defensive kick out plan are all but non existent add to this the puzzling selection of certain players throughout 2011 are all starting to wear thin on me. Now he has trotted out the 28 players to pick from excuse but we only have 7 listed as injured as of the 2nd of August, where is the rest of the list then as surely we have more than 35 on the list?

He will be wanting to show some improvement by midyear next or he will be in a fair bit of trouble as Bailey found out this week.

 

[NQTIGER]

West Coasts turn around has come mainly on the back of improved years from guys like Cox Glass Kerr Embley Priddis A Selwood Nicoski Lynch & Hurn who are all players with a minimum 90 games and 8 years experience under their belts. They have also been helped by guys like Kennedy S. Selwood & Ebert stepping up.

Going to be interesting to see how they fair in a few years time when those older blokes, most of who are 28+, retire and have to be replaced by kids.

So what youre suggesting here is that they underperformed last year and they are over performing and we are above them in the race for a flag because they have mature bodies FMD and you guys have the gall to delete some of my posts.......is that you dimma?

 

[Tiger2709]

Re: Hardwick hiding in the bleachers...must be gone years end

I agree with all that. But the time to watch him isn't after the damage is done at the end of year 3. It's over the whole process. If he isn't tracking well now, then they need a shake up of his support staff and everyone in the football department now. Otherwise next year will be another disaster. There are talks of extending his contract this year. That would be a big mistake based on what he has delivered to date.

Maybe if he gets the right support and we have a recruiting boon this year, he might be able to have a decent crack next year. But it won't happen if we all walk around blindfolded patting each other on the back.

I agree now isn't the time to extend DH's contract, but lets not forget the disaster he inherited and the plan he came in with and is still following, to turn over our list, this just isn't possible in two years for a club with limited funds, I think he needs at least one more draft to be able too build our team and I doubt that is even enough to give us the depth we are going to require if we want to compete with the big boys, no point making the finals year after year if you don't have the cattle to take you to the holy land, the next time we have some success we don't want it too be fleeting.

I actually think we are more on track than many see, we have had a couple of blowouts as the season wears on, unlike the top teams we are unable to rest anyone so that takes a toll, we've been unfortunate not with the amount of injuries but more that they have been predominantly back line players, if we get rid of Hardwick, we will have to start again I'd rather ride this one out for now and see where it takes us, I find it hard to see how any coach even Malthouse could improve us greatly until we have a solid playing list with some depth. In my mind we are heading the right way, its been a long time between drinks for us longtime Tiger supporters but we need too hang in there, half way through last year most commentators were predicting we wouldnt win a game and without massive help from the AFL we would be another Fitzroy, well 1 year later we are in 13th of 17 we have some very talented young players that have come through in that time, and only 7 weeks ago we were being put up as serious finals contenders, so really Dimma's performance has not been any where near as bad as the last 7 weeks make it look, IMHO.

 

[NQTIGER]

Re: Hardwick hiding in the bleachers...must be gone years end

I agree now isn't the time to extend DH's contract, but lets not forget the disaster he inherited and the plan he came in with and is still following, to turn over our list, this just isn't possible in two years for a club with limited funds, I think he needs at least one more draft to be able too build our team and I doubt that is even enough to give us the depth we are going to require if we want to compete with the big boys, no point making the finals year after year if you don't have the cattle to take you to the holy land, the next time we have some success we don't want it too be fleeting.

I actually think we are more on track than many see, we have had a couple of blowouts as the season wears on, unlike the top teams we are unable to rest anyone so that takes a toll, we've been unfortunate not with the amount of injuries but more that they have been predominantly back line players, if we get rid of Hardwick, we will have to start again I'd rather ride this one out for now and see where it takes us, I find it hard to see how any coach even Malthouse could improve us greatly until we have a solid playing list with some depth. In my mind we are heading the right way, its been a long time between drinks for us longtime Tiger supporters but we need too hang in there, half way through last year most commentators were predicting we wouldnt win a game and without massive help from the AFL we would be another Fitzroy, well 1 year later we are in 13th of 17 we have some very talented young players that have come through in that time, and only 7 weeks ago we were being put up as serious finals contenders, so really Dimma's performance has not been any where near as bad as the last 7 weeks make it look, IMHO.

We all generally agree with this but dont piss inour pockets by saying we are ahead of west coast, we maybe ahead of port and brisbane but im not even sure of that.

better salesmen than dimma have tried to sell us a used car and some have succeeded , but this is ridiculous, but im sure RT will find a positive in the spin.

 

[_RT_]

So what youre suggesting here is that they underperformed last year and they are over performing and we are above them in the race for a flag because they have mature bodies FMD and you guys have the gall to delete some of my posts.......is that you dimma?

In part I'm suggesting that they underperformed, in part due to the fact that guys like Cox Kerr Glass and a few others struggled with injury and form. Because they already had these guys on the list they haven't really undergone a rebuild.

On top of this they have had their younger kids, that have been around for 3-4 years, step up to the plate and finally deliver.

We don't have that older core group as we got rid of practically all of them when Hardwick took over, as such we have had to undergo a much more thorough rebuild rather than top up that the Eagles have undergone.

IMO the Eagles are having a last tilt at a flag with guys like Cox Kerr Glass and co before they do undergo a much deeper rebuild. As such what Dimma said about them not being ahead of us in terms of sides that are rebuilding is in fact correct.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

I think the Issue here is that we are in a unique position that we do not have a core of older players at all. Every other club has at least 6 or more experienced proven performers to rely on and in most clubs these are also the best players.

Our best players are our young stars, some other teams have young stars too, but as others have said they are sheltered to some degree by the more experienced performers around them. Our young stars have to shoulder the entire burden, play on the oppositions best players, they don't have anyone else to look to when they going gets tough.

So in one aspect our young players are more advanced than WCE's for example, because their older group still shoulder the burden of responsibility in games. The problem for us is that this only really applies to the youngest of players at WCE, they jhave both an older and middle group of players coming through, overall they are in a far more comfortable position than we are with talent spread across all ages from 19 - 30

 

[turtle27]

I think the Issue here is that we are in a unique position that we do not have a core of older players at all. Every other club has at least 6 or more experienced proven performers to rely on and in most clubs these are also the best players.

Our best players are our young stars, some other teams have young stars too, but as others have said they are sheltered to some degree by the more experienced performers around them. Our young stars have to shoulder the entire burden, play on the oppositions best players, they don't have anyone else to look to when they going gets tough.

So in one aspect our young players are more advanced than WCE's for example, because their older group still shoulder the burden of responsibility in games. The problem for us is that this only really applies to the youngest of players at WCE, they jhave both an older and middle group of players coming through, overall they are in a far more comfortable position than we are with talent spread across all ages from 19 - 30

Not so much short on older players, more like we are short on older players that are actually any good.

Our players over 25 are:

Tucky - 29yr 7mth
Newman - 29yr 2mth
Miller - 28yr 1mth
Moore - 27yr 4mth
Push Up - 27yr 4mth
Axel - 25yr 10mth
Thursty - 25yr 3mth
Jackson - 25yr 3mth

None of these will be around when we play finals.

The next group, let's say 25 to 22. I say 22 as I reckon 21 year olds still have a years grace in which to perform.

Morton - 24yr 6mth
McGuane - 24yr 5mth
White - 24yr 3mth
Graham - 24yr 3mth
Deledio - 24yr 3mth
Nahas - 23yr 8mth
Derickx - 23yr 7mth
Grigg - 23yr 3mth
O'Reilly - 23yr 3mth
Houli - 23yr 2mth
Hislop - 23yr 1mth
Webberley - 23yr 1mth
Connors - 22yr 10mth
Edwards - 22yr 9mth
Riewoldt - 22yr 9mth
Farmer - 22yr 7mth
Gourdis - 22yr 4mth
Nason - 22yr 2mth

I've bolded the ones I think will be on our list in three years time, and I have doubts on O'Reilly, Gourdis, Webberley.

That's 8 out of 26, or 18 of our 26 oldest players that will need to be turned over. It will take easily another three drafts, where we take at least 4-6 kids in the ND, and a couple of mature types via the VFL/WAF/SANFL, plus Rookies.

Now I don't believe Dimma has been that great over the last few weeks, but that can happen to coaches as much as it can happen to players. But I wonder if we have the patience, given I suspect some don't realise the extent of the problem Dimma has at his feet.

 

[NQTIGER]

In part I'm suggesting that they underperformed, in part due to the fact that guys like Cox Kerr Glass and a few others struggled with injury and form. Because they already had these guys on the list they haven't really undergone a rebuild.

On top of this they have had their younger kids, that have been around for 3-4 years, step up to the plate and finally deliver.

We don't have that older core group as we got rid of practically all of them when Hardwick took over, as such we have had to undergo a much more thorough rebuild rather than top up that the Eagles have undergone.

IMO the Eagles are having a last tilt at a flag with guys like Cox Kerr Glass and co before they do undergo a much deeper rebuild. As such what Dimma said about them not being ahead of us in terms of sides that are rebuilding is in fact correct.

In 2003 we beat the aints at etihad and there was a big brooha from the two coaches about who was better placed for the future, frawey said we were and thomas whilst rueing the result called us rubbish and despite the loss, the aints had a better list to go forward.

Well guess who was right.

Im sure you going to tell me that despite all the riches on that young list at the aints they havent tasted the sweet nectar of the ultimate prize.

Well mate the aints had a much much larger list of young guns than we have and dare i say a better quality of young ones then that we have now.

We are a long way behind the west coast and it will be a long time before we catch or even pas them.

andrew gaff and jack darling have done alright to complement their mature age recruits.

 

[_RT_]

In 2003 we beat the aints at etihad and there was a big brooha from the two coaches about who was better placed for the future, frawey said we were and thomas whilst rueing the result called us rubbish and despite the loss, the aints had a better list to go forward.

Well guess who was right.

Im sure you going to tell me that despite all the riches on that young list at the aints they havent tasted the sweet nectar of the ultimate prize.

Well mate the aints had a much much larger list of young guns than we have and dare i say a better quality of young ones then that we have now.

We are a long way behind the west coast and it will be a long time before we catch or even pas them.

andrew gaff and jack darling have done alright to complement their mature age recruits.

Just highlights what I was saying, the Saints had pretty much undergone their rebuild while we were still hanging onto a few older blokes hoping that we could somehow achieve the same results as we had in 01. Interesting that later in the year that same Saints outfit blew us off the park by 80 points and then went on their merry way playing finals every year bar 2007 between 2004 & 2010, while we rapidly went backwards and have struggled to find our way back since.

This time we're the side that is undergoing the complete rebuild while some of the other sides are still trying to give a few past champions a last chance at winning a flag. As I said it will be interesting to see how these sides go once those champions move on and they then have to rely on young kids, who have had a pretty easy ride, to step up.

 

[NQTIGER]

Just highlights what I was saying, the Saints had pretty much undergone their rebuild while we were still hanging onto a few older blokes hoping that we could somehow achieve the same results as we had in 01. Interesting that later in the year that same Saints outfit blew us off the park by 80 points and then went on their merry way playing finals every year bar 2007 between 2004 & 2010, while we rapidly went backwards and have struggled to find our way back since.

This time we're the side that is undergoing the complete rebuild while some of the other sides are still trying to give a few past champions a last chance at winning a flag. As I said it will be interesting to see how these sides go once those champions move on and they then have to rely on young kids, who have had a pretty easy ride, to step up.

The saints were below us and passed us, the eagles were below us and passed us, do you see any similarities?

And as for the easy ride , yeah they are being MENTORED and helped to DEVELOP by their older players..........

Who of our older players are mentoring our kids?

Jacko?
Newman?
Tuck?

 

[Croat tiger]

Dimma's nervous tick

I notice dimma has a bad habit of standing on his toes then dropping back down to his feet again when asked a difficult or awkward question by a reporters pre-match...what's with this nervous tick?

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Re: Dimma's nervous tick

I notice dimma has a bad habit of standing on his toes then dropping back down to his feet again when asked a difficult or awkward question by a reporters pre-match...what's with this nervous tick?

Firstly, it's "nervous tic", which is a muscle twitch.

You're describing something more of a habit he has, similar to what chef George Calombaris does. Is it a small-man syndrome?

 

[Croat tiger]

Re: Dimma's nervous tick

Firstly, it's "nervous tic", which is a muscle twitch.

You're describing something more of a habit he has, similar to what chef George Calombaris does. Is it a small-man syndrome?

It could also mean he's telling fibs when retorting a certain questions.

 

[Rustof]

Re: Dimma's nervous tick

Dimma has mannerisms, just like everyone else.

Watch anyone do anything and they'll have similar actions that they repeat.

 

[TJTIGER]

Re: Hardwick hiding in the bleachers...must be gone years end

The last two 5 year "rebuilds" have taken a massive toll on all of us. I don't think we have been impatient either and unfortunately for Dimma, he is going to feel the heat as we have been through extremely unsuccessful rebuilding stages and we are all worried we are going to back it up again.

The way I see it, this rebuild has started and is continuing on the right track. He is culling everyone that isn't going to take the club where it needs to go in the long term and rebuilding the list. 22 players have gone in the last 2 years and I'm sure that list will be pushing 30 by the end of this year.

I agree he has not shown as yet that he can get us to the finals and he is struggling at the moment but if you think back to some of the footy we were playing in the first half of the year we are absolutely making progress. It was hard to believe it was the same club that has been so horrible to watch in the past! To me Dimma, with a younger list has got more results in 2 years, than Frawley and Wallace could manage in 10!

We entrusted Dimma to rebuild our once great club and he is doing that. Is it enough to get us to the finals? I think so, depending on our drafting and trading over the next 2-3 years. Can he win us a flag? I don't know but i feel much more confident with him than I have for over 10 years.

He definitely should be judged on his merits but not after 2 years. At the end of next year we may not have many more wins but if we are consistently playing that exciting first half of the year footy and have cut out big losses, that will be enough for me to justify his reappointment.

Good post Regular Gonzales.

 

[TJTIGER]

Re: Hardwick hiding in the bleachers...must be gone years end

Scrutiny is perfectly healthy. The honeymoon period is well and truly over and I welcome it. The more questions we ask, the more answers we hope to get.
But some of the reactions on here are far too premature.
Talk to me at this time next year and we will see.

Good call Tugga. Agreed.

 

[_RT_]

The saints were below us and passed us, the eagles were below us and passed us, do you see any similarities?

And as for the easy ride , yeah they are being MENTORED and helped to DEVELOP by their older players..........

Who of our older players are mentoring our kids?

Jacko?
Newman?
Tuck?

I'm wondering if you do? The Saints were chock full of young kids when they last lost to us. They stuck with these kids moved older blokes on and went past us at a rate of knots once the kids finally clicked.

West Coast have only gone past us at the moment for the most part because the older blokes they still have on their list have rediscovered their best form.

When their kids are asked to step up and fill the gap they will end up like the were last year. On the other hand our kids are being asked to learn on the fly and I believe will be better equipped in the seasons ahead to be able to step up to the plate in part because they wil have all come through the system together.

 

[TJTIGER]

Re: Hardwick hiding in the bleachers...must be gone years end

well thats where we will have to agree to disagree: 2 full seasons under his belt is defiantely NOT enough when you a) inherit a terrible list b) do a major cleanout c) replace the cleared-out players with very very young players d) your football department is one of the most underfunded in the league e) you are, in conjunction with the administration, working to a 3-5 year plan to right the ship not a 2 year plan.... and for good measure you can also add f) if you happen to cop a bad run of injuries that undermines progress generally.

Hardwick and the club planned and agreed together to work on a long term plan. He is sticking to that and not taking short cuts just to keep feral supporters in check after year 2.

The management precdents of Frawley and Wallace are largely irrellevant as t(particularly under Wallace) the club was a total basket case off field in that period, and couldnt manage anything. We have a competent managment in place now.. they would have managed wallace differently/appropriately: and Im confident they will manage Hardwick appropriately; but what they wont do it capitulate into short term plans to keep feral supporters in check after year 2 either.

Nice work AstroboyUK Personally I think it will take a minimum of 3 years (at best) for Dimma to get the right players to then train up to be a real threat.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I'm wondering if you do? The Saints were chock full of young kids when they last lost to us. They stuck with these kids moved older blokes on and went past us at a rate of knots once the kids finally clicked.

West Coast have only gone past us at the moment for the most part because the older blokes they still have on their list have rediscovered their best form.

When their kids are asked to step up and fill the gap they will end up like the were last year. On the other hand our kids are being asked to learn on the fly and I believe will be better equipped in the seasons ahead to be able to step up to the plate in part because they wil have all come through the system together.

SMilne and the rest say hi......

 

[_RT_]

SMilne and the rest say hi......

Milne and the rest weren't older blokes back in 2003 now were they.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Milne and the rest weren't older blokes back in 2003 now were they.

Oh ok...that was'nt clear to me in your post......

 

[docko911]

Hardwick has no idea...selection, coaching most people on this board could do a better job. His assistants are just as bad.

 

[Rustof]

I thought the selections were pretty good this week, the only poor one was Farmer instead of Post. WCE to their credit have only lost 1 game at home this year, we fought well for 3 qtrs but with poor skill errors and average umpiring we were never going to win.

 

[SillyKent]

Not sure what Hardwick was thinking putting a tight tag on Priddis and letting WCE 2 most damaging midfielders in Kerr and Shuey essentially run free...

 

[theflea]

I thought the selections were pretty good this week, the only poor one was Farmer instead of Post. WCE to their credit have only lost 1 game at home this year, we fought well for 3 qtrs but with poor skill errors and average umpiring we were never going to win.

snap!!!!!!!!!