Harry O'Brien vs Patrick Ryder

[Heater39]

Who would you prefer on your team and why?

I chose Harry O due to his ability to play on talls and smalls and the rebound he provides. Ryder probabaly has more potential but at this stage Harry O's performances have been better IMO.

 

[Claude Balls]

Far rather Paddy Ryder. O'Brien is a hack, who just seems to play a decent game from time to time, lord knows how he does it, considering he appears to be suffering from some sort of motor neuron disorder that renders him incapable of smooth, elegant movement.

 

[Heater39]

Far rather Paddy Ryder. O'Brien is a hack, who just seems to play a decent game from time to time, lord knows how he does it, considering he appears to be suffering from some sort of motor neuron disorder that renders him incapable of smooth, elegant movement.

Ah you seem to be talking of the Harry O of old. He is now a very reliable kick and doesn't get caught up in trouble nearly as much as he used to. He also finished 5th in our B&F FWIW.

 

[hellfire]

Hmm, I'd probably lean towards Ryder, because I think when he fills out more, he'll be a star. Harry is a gun, is rarely beaten (unless he's thrown in against someone a few weight divisions up - Fevola and Franklin), and provides us with some excellent rebound.

Both very good young defenders.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Harry O is one of my least favourite players in the comp.

I prefer players to have natural football ability and not rely on either being a) just an athelete, b) very, very tall or c) a scraggy purely negating type player.

Harry falls into category C. He has no football ability, he is terrible to watch, he clings and scrags his opponent and somehow gets away with it, as a result he is an effective defender.

Ryder has bucket loads of ability, he is brilliant to watch. He does need to ramp up his output a bit.

Not sure why anyone would take O'Brien over Ryder, but I know who I would rather.

 

[mdc]

Not sure why anyone would take O'Brien over Ryder, but I know who I would rather.

Better defensively, gets more touches, uses them a fair bit better.

Ryder obviously has more natural talent, and is the probably the better long-term option, but on performance in 2008, O'Brien is leagues ahead. That won't change in 2009 either, although Ryder may close the gap.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Better defensively, gets more touches, uses them a fair bit better.

Ryder obviously has more natural talent, and is the probably the better long-term option, but on performance in 2008, O'Brien is leagues ahead. That won't change in 2009 either, although Ryder may close the gap.

Have to disagree with this. Ryder is a far better user of the ball than O'Brien. And as for more touches, well I would rather 2 less possesions and have a bloke that can take contested marks, play at both ends of the ground, Ruck, and combines height and mobility.

The question is who would you prefer on your team, it is not a question of who had a better 08'. If you think Ryder will close the gap and has more potential, then once again, I can't see why you would pick O'Brien.

 

[smiddaz123]

Nobody realises how well O'Brien uses the ball. Top 3 in effective disposals at Collingwood in 2008 from memory, he was actually leading that stat for a while as well.

I fully expect Ryder to win this poll. O'Brien is easily Collingwood's most under rated player.

 

[mdc]

The question is who would you prefer on your team, it is not a question of who had a better 08'. If you think Ryder will close the gap and has more potential, then once again, I can't see why you would pick O'Brien.

Who would I prefer on my team for one match? for one season? for their careers? Get where I'm going with that?

Yes, Ryder is younger and has a higher celing, so you'd probably prefer to have him long-term. But if your goal is to win a flag in 2009, Harry's the better option.

Consider, fwiw, that Harry was our best defender last year (since Presti was out) and our defense was 6th-best in the league. Essendon's, OTOH, was dead last. You guys could really use a Harry

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

O'brien gets the 2nd/3rd best forward, while Ryder often gets the best forward (due to Fletcher taking the 2nd/3rd best forward).
But in saying that, O'brien probably does a better job and is more damaging with the ball( even though he looks about as orthodox as a 3 three legged dog) whereas Ryder seems to have gone into his shell - aside form the occasional attempt at a specky.

Hard call to make, but Ryder has more upside. I'd go with him.

 

[PieLebo87]

O'brien gets the 2nd/3rd best forward, while Ryder often gets the best forward (due to Fletcher taking the 2nd/3rd best forward).
But in saying that, O'brien probably does a better job and is more damaging with the ball( even though he looks about as orthodox as a 3 three legged dog) whereas Ryder seems to have gone into his shell - aside form the occasional attempt at a specky.

Hard call to make, but Ryder has more upside. I'd go with him.

Brendan Fevola and Lance Franklin the 2nd/3rd best forwards?

Those are just two from the top of my head from '08 alone.

He has also demolished Milne, Stevie J and other quality smalls.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Brendan Fevola and Lance Franklin the 2nd/3rd best forwards?

Those are just two from the top of my head from '08 alone.

He has also demolished Milne, Stevie J and other quality smalls.

How long did he play on Buddy and Fev??

I could've sworn Brown took Buddy in the initial game( backed up by a PIe supporters on SNE talkback last week about how well Brown played for the first half...then Buddy kicked into gear) and the second time around Maxwell got him for most of the night.
And from memory O'brien was on Rioli.

 

[smiddaz123]

O'Brien was on Rioli in the second game, correct. He was on Buddy in the first game I think though.

Steve Johnson would be close to geelong's best forward and O'Brien kept him goaless. The best forward isn't always the KP forward.

O'Brien did much better defensive jobs than Ryder in 2008, and was more effective re-bounding. In terms of output O'Brien was well ahead of him.

Ryder will obviously close that gap though.

 

[DoubleO7]

Don't forget the freak goal he kicked on that midget Milne

In 2007 he was noted for keeping Scott Lucas, Nick Riewoldt and Cameron Mooney goalless even though he was undersized for a key defender.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

O'Brien was on Rioli in the second game, correct. He was on Buddy in the first game I think though.

Steve Johnson would be close to geelong's best forward and O'Brien kept him goaless. The best forward isn't always the KP forward.

O'Brien did much better defensive jobs than Ryder in 2008, and was more effective re-bounding. In terms of output O'Brien was well ahead of him.

Ryder will obviously close that gap though.

Pretty sure Brown was on him the whole game - Buddy had a quiet first half for his standards and worked up the ground after kicking a few points. Every goal Buddy kicks in the second half was on Brown( source: Buddy Bonananza).

Agreed, not every teams best forward is a KP, but let's face it, the teams that do have them are the ones to beat. ( Geelong being a strange one as Johnson and Mooney probably both have equal rights to the number 1 mantle on their day.)

 

[thebigboy]

Better defensively, gets more touches, uses them a fair bit better.

Ryder obviously has more natural talent, and is the probably the better long-term option, but on performance in 2008, O'Brien is leagues ahead. That won't change in 2009 either, although Ryder may close the gap.

He's certainly not leagues ahead of Ryder, but on performances over the last 12 months, their very similar.

On Potential, Ryder wins hands down.

 

[DoubleO7]

He's certainly not leagues ahead of Ryder, but on performances over the last 12 months, their very similar.

On Potential, Ryder wins hands down.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Sir James]

At the moment they are pretty close, but i would have Ryder.
1.He can also ruck.
2.I follow Essendon

 

[Dylz48]

Harry O is one of my least favourite players in the comp.

I prefer players to have natural football ability and not rely on either being a) just an athelete, b) very, very tall or c) a scraggy purely negating type player.

Harry falls into category C. He has no football ability, he is terrible to watch, he clings and scrags his opponent and somehow gets away with it, as a result he is an effective defender.

Ryder has bucket loads of ability, he is brilliant to watch. He does need to ramp up his output a bit.

Not sure why anyone would take O'Brien over Ryder, but I know who I would rather.

Have you ever seen harry play he has heaps of ability and rarely plays a bad game

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Have you ever seen harry play he has heaps of ability and rarely plays a bad game

I suppose you'd say the same thing about Presti.

 

[hellfire]

I suppose you'd say the same thing about Presti.

Mate, watch a game.

Harry's disposal is far ahead of Presti's. Mick worked hard with him over the pre-season in 2008 on running the ball out of defense and spotting up a target (I saw them doing this at training countless times). He really improved in this area, and provides loads of rebound. He's pretty good moving through congestion in the backline too, he backs himself, runs the ball out and kicks long to a target. He had over 90% disposal efficiency from memory. Very impressive for what you consider a mere "stopper". Though it would be easy to think he's just a stopper, after the absolute demolition he put on Lucas... twice.

 

[thebigboy]

Care to elaborate?

- Collingwoods midfield is stronger defensivly hence the ball isn't coming in half as frequently.

- O'Brien is physically more equipt to take on 'stronger' body forwards.

- Ryder is consistantly taking the oppositions number 1 forward. O'Brien will take the number 1 forward half the time.

- Opposition supporters generally see Ryder's potential only rather than seeing his actual output, which at times has been very good, and only on 1 or 2 occasions, been sub-par.

-Ryder is still learning to play in defence. He's only been playing in defence for 2 full seasons.

 

[Dylz48]

I suppose you'd say the same thing about Presti.

No I'd say you are blindly bias to say In your opinion Ryder is the better player that is fine but to say O'Brien is a one dimensional player with no talent is just wrong. What is wrong with presti sure he is not what he use to be but at his peak he was a great back man and arguably the most underrated player in the comp

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Though it would be easy to think he's just a stopper, after the absolute demolition he put on Lucas... twice.

Not hard to put a demolition on someone when you are practically raping them at every contest. The guy is the biggest scragger in the competition, how he gets away with what he does I'll never know.

 

[Cassius_Clay]

Not hard to put a demolition on someone when you are practically raping them at every contest. The guy is the biggest scragger in the competition, how he gets away with what he does I'll never know.

He must just lucky all the time.

Wouldnt that be called a skill? SOS mastered it and was accreditted with Team of the Century honors.

Harry O is great. Can play on talls aswell as smalls. I bet you Steven Milne rates him highly.

Ryder should be the better player. Top 10 draft pick. Much better size etc etc.