Expansion Has the Barassi line moved or not.

[fabulousphil]

People on this board may or may not be aware of the so called Barassi line http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barassi_Line


The Barassi Line is an imaginary line that runs from Arnhem Land in the Northern Territory, down through Birdsville, Queensland, through southern New South Wales (north of the Riverina), bisecting Canberra and to the Pacific Ocean.

For Australian rules, an increasing number of players have been produced from the other side of the Barassi line (particularly due to interstate migration trends and grassroots participation in the sport), especially from Cairns, Brisbane and the Gold Coast and more recently Sydney.

So my question is ..... will the Barassi line become increasingly blurred and one day not exist or will there continue to be a great sporting cultural/footy divide between the southern and northern states.

Please discuss.

 

[tandino]

I think it has already diminished somewhat with the development of AFL programs in Sydney and Brisbane, but in terms of promotion and interest of the game the term is still a valid one.

 

[Valleys FC 4Ever]

"The Barassi Line". What a ridiculous name and ridiculous concept. RL/RU and soccer will always dominate in the north+east just as the Aussie Rules monoculture will probably never fully die out in the south.

 

[walhawk]

Er... yes Valleys, that is the whole concept of the line.

 

[tandino]

Here's a picture to describe the concept, for those who find reading challenging.

 

[kane249]

"The Barassi Line". What a ridiculous name and ridiculous concept. RL/RU and soccer will always dominate in the north+east just as the Aussie Rules monoculture will probably never fully die out in the south.

Never fully die out? remind us which is the code that actually expanded and survived in enemy territory? RL failed miserably at it's attempt, RU has had success so far with the Western Force but it's still early days there.

RL in particular is the game in decline, that's the game that best fits the description of never fully dieing out as the other codes expand.

 

[Valleys FC 4Ever]

RL failed miserably at it's attempt,

I don't want to take this thread off-topic but the clubs in Perth and Adelaide (and others) didn't fail. They were cut from the unified comp (by News Ltd) as part of the SL War peace deal. If it wasn't for News Ltd they'd both still be in the comp.

RL in particular is the game in decline,

How is RL 'in decline'? Didn't the NRL just successfully expand last year?

 

[kane249]

I don't want to take this thread off-topic but the clubs in Perth and Adelaide (and others) didn't fail. They were cut from the unified comp (by News Ltd) as part of the SL War peace deal. If it wasn't for News Ltd they'd both still be in the comp.

How is RL 'in decline'? Didn't the NRL just successfully expand last year?

Perth and Adelaide were failing miserably long before the comps were reunited. The Western Reds in particular had become a joke of a team towards the end.

Falling crowds in Sydney and clubs struggling to bring in money ring any bells? Expansion to a state that's already within your territory and heartland, great expansion. It would be like the AFL proclaiming it had successfully expanded another team into South Australia or WA. Expanding the game is spreading it beyond it's current borders into areas where the game isn't strong, not just reinforcing what you already have.

 

[Valleys FC 4Ever]

Perth and Adelaide were failing miserably long before the comps were reunited.

How is that even possible? ie: Adelaide was created in 1997 and was cut in mid 1998.

The Western Reds in particular had become a joke of a team towards the end.

Really? In what respect?

Falling crowds in Sydney

NRL crowds are actually at record highs, this season is the second highest on record.

and clubs struggling to bring in money ring any bells?

No football clubs are struggling beyond the norm. Some leagues clubs in Sydney have been forced to cut their grants to the footy clubs because of the new taxes. This has forced the football clubs to widen their revenue streams. Look at what Souths and Wests are doing for instance. If you cut the CBF grants to a few AFL clubs I'd wonder what they would do.

Expansion to a state that's already within your territory and heartland, great expansion.

It was a very successful expansion. I think that's the important thing.

It would be like the AFL proclaiming it had successfully expanded another team into South Australia or WA.

It was expanding the game to the 6th largest city in Australia. A place where all almost every sport had set up franchises and failed before. In hindsight it looks easy but at the time it was risky. Besides, a competition 'in decline' (your own words) can't pull off expansion like that. The state government built a brand new stadium remember, it's not something you do for a game going downhill.

Expanding the game is spreading it beyond it's current borders into areas where the game isn't strong, not just reinforcing what you already have.

Is that a fact? Are you suggesting that the AFL has only expanded twice in its 100 year history?

 

[kane249]

How is that even possible? ie: Adelaide was created in 1997 and was cut in mid 1998.

Really? In what respect?

NRL crowds are actually at record highs, this season is the second highest on record.

No football clubs are struggling beyond the norm. Some leagues clubs in Sydney have been forced to cut their grants to the footy clubs because of the new taxes. This has forced the football clubs to widen their revenue streams. Look at what Souths and Wests are doing for instance. If you cut the CBF grants to a few AFL clubs I'd wonder what they would do.

It was a very successful expansion. I think that's the important thing.

It was expanding the game to the 6th largest city in Australia. A place where all almost every sport had set up franchises and failed before. In hindsight it looks easy but at the time it was risky. Besides, a competition 'in decline' (your own words) can't pull off expansion like that. The state government built a brand new stadium remember, it's not something you do for a game going downhill.

Is that a fact? Are you suggesting that the AFL has only expanded twice in its 100 year history?

-The Rams were averaging 6K crowds in the final year, hardly setting the world on fire.

-The only reason the Reds survived till Super League was because they were bailed out of their financial mire by Murdoch. The Reds were a joke around Perth in their final year, couldn't win a game to save their life and got poor crowds as well.

-You established a team in a market that's already rugby centric, big achievement .Yes i would say AFL has only really expanded twice. Introducing Perth and Adelaide was a consolidation of niche markets, going to Sydney and Brisbane (ie enemy territory) is what I would call a real expansion of the game. All the NRL did was consolidate what they had in a market that's already there's, some expansion.

 

[Valleys FC 4Ever]

-The Rams were averaging 6K crowds in the final year, hardly setting the world on fire.

They were averaging over 15K in their first year with nearly 9K members (unheard of for an NRL club back then). In their second year they were averaging well over 7K despite it becoming public knowledge that they weren't going to be in the comp the following year. A pretty good effort all up imo.

-The only reason the Reds survived till Super League was because they were bailed out of their financial mire by Murdoch.

The Reds were 'bailed out' because SL said they would pay the airfares for all visiting teams that the ARL had forced the Reds to pay. That's it.

The Reds were a joke around Perth in their final year, couldn't win a game to save their life and got poor crowds as well.

The Reds suffered a drop in support for many reasons (defecting to SL, the poor W-L record and the threat of relocation to Melbourne all hung over them like in their final year) but that wasn't terminal. If News didn't cut them then they'd have survived.

In fact, even though they were cut in 1997, the WARL and ARL have been busy behind the scenes and if they are to believed then they are headed back to the NRL in 2011/2012 (announced in 2006).

They're playing in the third tier Sydney comp atm. Check them out if you want, they play at MES. http://www.waredsrugbyleague.com.au/

-You established a team in a market that's already rugby centric, big achievement .Yes i would say AFL has only really expanded twice. Introducing Perth and Adelaide was a consolidation of niche markets, going to Sydney and Brisbane (ie enemy territory) is what I would call a real expansion of the game. All the NRL did was consolidate what they had in a market that's already there's, some expansion.

As I said, other codes had expanded there in the past and failed, including the AFL. The fact that the NRL's expansion there was a raging success just goes to show that the game is anything but 'in decline'.

In fact it wasn't until the Titans came along that the ARU, then the FFA and finally the AFL (as well as the NBL and AIHL) all decided that they wanted a piece of the action. It says a lot that the NRL expanding to the GC could directly influence so many other administrative bodies.

 

[Crooked Rain]

Perth and Adelaide were failing miserably long before the comps were reunited. The Western Reds in particular had become a joke of a team towards the end.

.

You must remember that the Super League war broke in 1995 and RL was in a mess from that point on. The Reds' first year just happened to be in 1995. By their third season (their last) they were involved in half a comp and as we all know RL was at an all-time low in its heartlands. Imagine if the proposed new AFL teams in Western Sydney and the Gold Coast had to put up with this in their formative years? They'd be lucky to last 3 seasons as well.

The Reds never had a chance and nor did several other new clubs around that time. Thank you News LTD.

 

[Doctor Jolly]

Here's a picture to describe the concept, for those who find reading challenging.

The line still exists, but the green section is getting more yellow every day.

Its not as appropriate as it was back in the 70's. There are 3 categories of territory. 1. AFL dominated (yellow), 2. RL dominated (Western Sydney, Northern NSW, Brisbane to Townsville), and then there is 3. Multicode areas: Rest of NSW, North/East/InnerWest of Sydney. Northern QLD, Canberra, Gold Coast, Brisbane etc.

 

[littleduck]

Valleys!!! << thats my team.

 

[cos789]

I think it has already diminished somewhat with the development of AFL programs in Sydney and Brisbane, but in terms of promotion and interest of the game the term is still a valid one.

As a concept , it is still valid , where as in reality it has become very blurred .
With the increasing demand and exploration for players coming from outside of Australia it will lose relevance .

.

 

[Valleys FC 4Ever]

Valleys!!! << thats my team.

Good to see there's still a few of us around.

 

[Eel_storm]

The Mal Meninga line has also moved the other way, with more Victorians and South australians entering the NRL

 

[RUNVS]

The Mal Meninga line has also moved the other way, with more Victorians and South australians entering the NRL

Would you care to list all these players who were born and bred in Victoria and South Australia who are now in the NRL?

 

[Eel_storm]

Greg Inglis, Cameron Smith, Ryan Hoffman, the list goes on.

 

[RUNVS]

Greg Inglis, Cameron Smith, Ryan Hoffman, the list goes on.

Greg Inglis - Born in NSW and plays for QLD in State of Origin
Cameron Smith - Born in QLD and plays for QLD in State of Origin
Ryan Hoffman - Born in ACT and plays for NSW in State of Origin

So your first 3 examples seem to have no links with either Victoria or South Australia.

 

[Fire]

Greg Inglis - Born in NSW and plays for QLD in State of Origin
Cameron Smith - Born in QLD and plays for QLD in State of Origin
Ryan Hoffman - Born in ACT and plays for NSW in State of Origin

So your first 3 examples seem to have no links with either Victoria or South Australia.

They probably visited Woodonga on a high school excursion.

The correct answer is: No one.

The list doesn't go on from that.

No point in trying to pretend otherwise.

 

[Eel_storm]

Greg Inglis - Born in NSW and plays for QLD in State of Origin
Cameron Smith - Born in QLD and plays for QLD in State of Origin
Ryan Hoffman - Born in ACT and plays for NSW in State of Origin

So your first 3 examples seem to have no links with either Victoria or South Australia.

have a look at the history of NRL *******, you get players who played for your club first to play for your state

i could go on trust me.

 

[Hoops]

The Mal Meninga line has also moved the other way, with more Victorians and South australians entering the NRL

That's a good one

You are doing your job well, remember to not play it too stupid.

 

[Denmark AFL]

Soon PNG will be part of it, as will NZ

 

[RUNVS]

have a look at the history of NRL *******, you get players who played for your club first to play for your state

i could go on trust me.

Yes but none of then were born in either Victoria or South Australia and i also havent seen any evidence which suggests that any of them grew up in either state.