Hawthorn and Essendon rivalry

[Irish BlueBagger]

Stay in my/our lane?

This is a discussion forum on the Essendon - Hawthorn rivalry (a topic I directly addressed). You, a Carlton supporter, are here telling me Hawthorn are a "wannabe" club, have no history and are bringing Carlton into it.

The only person who needs to stay in their lane is you

It was a reference to your selective choosing of years and time periods to suit a certain narrative. The VFL/AFL did not start in 1961 or 1925 after all it started in 1897.

No history was a poor choice of words on my part, but Hawthorn's depth of history and tradition wouldn't be as rich or as deep as the three clubs still ahead of them on the premiership count imo.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

A supporter can interporetate however they want to

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It was a reference to your selective choosing of years and timer periods to suit a certain narrative. The VFL/AFL did not start in 1961 or 1925 after all it started in 1897.

No history was a poor choice of words on my part, but Hawthorns depth of history and tradition wouldn't be as rich or as deep as the three clubs still ahead of them on the premiership count imo.

Congrats on all those flags in an 8 team comp, when Herbert, Ernest and Alfred were dominating.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

nuh, ours were illegal in a sense to professional sport. A supporter can interporetate however they want to, others have just down right illegal activities in there's

The AFL cleared your club of any wrong doing (no Essendon players took banned/illegal substances or injections in their view) over the drugs saga, only for WADA to then stick their size nines in as such.

I suppose that's why some Bombers fans feel that the whole thing was some sort of witch hunt.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

It was a reference to your selective choosing of years and timer periods to suit a certain narrative. The VFL/AFL did not start in 1961 or 1925 after all it started in 1897.

No history was a poor choice of words on my part, but Hawthorns depth of history and tradition wouldn't be as rich or as deep as the three clubs still ahead of them on the premiership count imo.

I didn't selectively choose anything - I didn't mention 1925 or 1961 or anything else - sounds like you are so used to arguing with Hawthorn supporters, you have just assumed I made the same arguments .

Instead, you said we are a 'wannabe' club and no one spends time thinking about us (which based on this thread is probably more than you admit )

I responded to say that Hawthorn supporters and the club are fine with who we are (enjoying the success we get to witness) and have no care for how much time you spend thinking about us.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

you pretend like we are the only club with skeletons in the closest

Quite literally the only club to have 34 players suspended by the world anti-doping body, the worst of any sporting club in the history of this Country, and the only club to continue to lie and spin the whole scenario into some sort of fan-fiction where it was all just a big coincidence that the players were injected for months and forgot to declare any of them to ASADA.

“we don’t know what we took, but we know it was all safe and legal”.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

I didn't selectively choose anything - I didn't mention 1925 or 1961 or anything else - sounds like you are so used to arguing with Hawthorn supporters, you have just assumed I made the same arguments .

Instead, you said we are a 'wannabe' club and no one spends time thinking about us.

I responded to say that Hawthorn supporters and the club are fine with who we are (enjoying the success we get to witness) and have no care for how much time you spend thinking about us.

Not really actually arguing with the Collingwood crowd takes up the vast majority of my time here.

 

[windyhill]

It's interesting you say this - cos it seems Essendon is hated by most supporter groups in the league - and it certainly hasn't got much to do with being successful, given Essendon hasn't even won a final in multiple decades.

I think there's just something about the way the club has operated for much of its existence.

From it actively preventing North Melbourne from joining the competition at outset, setting that club back 30 years (igniting a rivalry that still remains).

To the match fixing scandals of the 1910's and 1920's...(Essendon playing dead and not trying for monetary gain).

To systematic, widespread salary cap breaches and contract manipulations in the 90's including their period of success.

Right through to actively cheating through the doping/supplements scandal - far and away the worst thing to happen in our code.

It's just been a long history of not only Essendon taking the absolute piss with the integrity of the competition but the whole club constantly defending and trying to pretend they didn't do anything wrong. Mix in an almost constant state of hubris and arrogance*, constantly believing they win every trade, every draft and are at the forefront of everyone's worries every pre-season, they're just a pretty insufferable lot to supporters of most, if not all clubs.

Some liken the Hawthorn - Essendong rivalry to the Hawthorn - Geelong one, but Hawthorn supporters mostly have begrudging respect for Geelong and the way they go about it. The same cannot be said of Essendon - it's more disgust and little respect, with a strange feeling of pity mixed in over the last 20 years.

*(The worst part is - the arrogance mostly stems from "16 flags", despite the fact that those came decades before these people were born, with many 'earnt' during and in the immediate aftermath of a World War, where many clubs didn't/couldn't participate or were more focussed on serving/saving/rebuilding the nation).

Save for the odd individual, just a gross club really

In other words, "please give us relevance, please be our rival"

 

[windyhill]

Nope - just more and bigger skeletons that most (and an attitude to match)

Cyril likes this.

 

[parsons nose]

Cyril likes this.

And so the rivalry continues.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

In other words, "please give us relevance, please be our rival"

The irony of this is that this is all that Essendon supporters have these days.

Nothing on field or about the club today brings any joy whatsoever and so Essendon supporters are 'proud' to say things like "see - every club has a thread on their Board about us - we're relevant - yay" completely ignoring the fact that the primary reason for this is that it was Essendon at the centre of the biggest shame our sport (or any Australian sport) has seen - and is therefore relevant for all clubs. Nothing to be proud of whatsoever.

Faded glories and old rivalries are clung onto by clubs unable to produce or have relevance in the modern game - that's a description that applies to only one of our clubs.

 

[windyhill]

The irony of this is that this is all that Essendon supporters have these days.

Nothing on field or about the club today brings any joy whatsoever and so Essendon supporters are 'proud' to say things like "see - every club has a thread on their Board about us - we're relevant - yay" completely ignoring the fact that the primary reason for this is that it was Essendon at the centre of the biggest shame our sport (or any Australian sport) has seen - and is therefore relevant for all clubs. Nothing to be proud of whatsoever.

Faded glories and old rivalries are clung onto by clubs unable to produce or have relevance in the modern game - that's a description that applies to only one of our clubs.

Until Jeff Kennett entered the room. Ripped jeans !! How uncouth.

 

[Yoda_]

Quite literally the only club to have 34 players suspended by the world anti-doping body, the worst of any sporting club in the history of this Country, and the only club to continue to lie and spin the whole scenario into some sort of fan-fiction where it was all just a big coincidence that the players were injected for months and forgot to declare any of them to ASADA.

“we don’t know what we took, but we know it was all safe and legal”.

as a moderator whose own supporters dont respect you, there is literally no point even try to talk football with you Abasi

 

[Yoda_]

The AFL cleared your club of any wrong doing (no Essendon players took banned/illegal substances or injections in their view) over the drugs saga, only for WADA to then stick their size nines in as such.

I suppose that's why some Bombers fans feel that the whole thing was some sort of witch hunt.

as I accepted, in the scheme of profesional sport, we copped our whack

in the terms of Luke Hodge drink Driving, or Lance Franklin doing illegal drugs, Travis Tuck having three strikes, Alistair Clarkson and his antics


but sure, lets zone in and pretend no other club has skeletons. that was my point some cant seem to fathom

 

[Yoda_]

In other words, "please give us relevance, please be our rival"

thats every North Melbourne supporter on BigFooty

 

[rye]

as I accepted, in the scheme of profesional sport, we copped our whack

in the terms of Luke Hodge drink Driving, or Lance Franklin doing illegal drugs, Travis Tuck having three strikes, Alistair Clarkson and his antics


but sure, lets zone in and pretend no other club has skeletons. that was my point some cant seem to fathom

there is a massive difference between the essendon doping scandal and the individual conduct of players and staff who have at one point or another been involved with hawthorn

 

[Yoda_]

there is a massive difference between the essendon doping scandal and the individual conduct of players and staff who have at one point or another been involved with hawthorn

if you cant comprehend what is being said, maybe its best to let the adult discuss tiger

 

[rye]

if you cant comprehend what is being said, maybe its best to let the adult discuss tiger

youre talking about clubs having 'skeletons in the closest'

hodge, franklin and tuck's conduct are not club matters. they are individual ones.

the essendon doping scandal is an essendon football club matter.

this isnt difficult for most to comprehend

 

[windyhill]

youre talking about clubs having 'skeletons in the closest'

hodge, franklin and tuck's conduct are not club matters. they are individual ones.

the essendon doping scandal is an essendon football club matter.

this isnt difficult for most to comprehend

Let's not bring up the racism saga.

 

[ReturningHawk]

I’m glad there’s finally a thread dedicated to Hawks and Dons fans bagging each other

 

[Yoda_]

I’m glad there’s finally a thread dedicated to Hawks and Dons fans bagging each other

must be a nice change up from a circle jerk bashing from one clubs supporters base on its own forum

 

[Cyclops]

My Hawk mates want there to be a rivalry. They we desperate for it to be with North in the 70s, Essendon in the 80s, with Geelong after 89.

They were a tiny club that rorted some success but they backed it up with Clarkos 4 flags. Biggest of the middling clubs now.

Before that they had a hard time getting people to take them seriously. There's still a chip there.

A lot of clubs find them more irritating than anything. "Geelong have no rivals" its true but they find Hawthorn irritating.

I think its the same for the Bombers, there's the bad blood with North, the 16 flag club (although theres not really that much of a rivalry with the Pies).

They find Hawthorn irritating for being jumped up. Bombers like us a rre hurt by the zone rort that established Hawthorn and revived Carlton.

When the Bombers built a superb side in the 80s they were knocked for being thugs (they were a bit) but it must've stung when Hawthorn were being lauded yet they fielded Lethal, Dipper and Brereton.

So i think the Hawks want it to be a rivalry, Essendon are embarrassed because it feels like validating a vulgar new club.

Wish we had a rivalry with Hawthorn, but they keep beating us. Also they dodge us in Grand Finals.

Ditto Esendon. We've only played 2 GFs. I respect them, and we have this (totally unfair) ANZAC Day thing Sheedy invented, but i feel more respect than rivalry.

Very surprised by the drug thing. Esendon may be cruel (eg to North) and like us a bit arrogant, but cheating? It was out of character. I thought us or Hawthorn much more likely candidates. Maybe we are better at hiding it?

 

[ReturningHawk]

My Hawk mates want there to be a rivalry. They we desperate for it to be with North in the 70s, Essendon in the 80s, with Geelong after 89.

They were a tiny club that rorted some success but they backed it up with Clarkos 3 4 flags. Biggest of the middling clubs now.

Before that they had a hard time getting people to take them seriously. There's still a chip there.

A lot of clubs find them more irritating than anything. "Geelong have no rivals" its true but they find Hawthorn irritating.

I think its the same for the Bombers, there's the bad blood with North, the 16 flag club (although theres not really that much of a rivalry with the Pies).

They find Hawthorn irritating for being jumped up. Bombers like us a rre hurt by the zone rort that established Hawthorn and revived Carlton.

When the Bombers built a superb side in the 80s they were knocked for being thugs (they were a bit) but it must've stung when Hawthorn were being lauded yet they fielded Lethal, Dipper and Brereton.

So i think the Hawks want it to be a rivalry, Essendon are embarrassed because it feels like validating a vulgar new club.

Wish we had a rivalry with Hawthorn, but they keep beating us. Also they dodge us in Grand Finals.

Ditto Esendon. We've only played 2 GFs. I respect them, and we have this (totally unfair) ANZAC Day thing Sheedy invented, but i feel more respect than rivalry.

Very surprised by the drug thing. Esendon may be cruel (eg to North) and like us a bit arrogant, but cheating? It was out of character. I thought us of Hawthorn much more likely candidates. Maybe we are better at hiding it?

The club is 100 years old and has enjoyed far more success than any other in living memory, and people still wheel out the “expansion club” label like it’s going to sting the supporters. Hawks fans care far more about the rivalry with Geelong, or about Brisbane who now have an equal number of flags in the AFL era and are trying to pinch Hodge’s kid.

Feelings towards Essendon are a bit different. There’s certainly no sense of competition anymore.

 

[threesixpio]

It's interesting you say this - cos it seems Essendon is hated by most supporter groups in the league - and it certainly hasn't got much to do with being successful, given Essendon hasn't even won a final in multiple decades.

I think there's just something about the way the club has operated for much of its existence.

From it actively preventing North Melbourne from joining the competition at outset, setting that club back 30 years (igniting a rivalry that still remains).

To the match fixing scandals of the 1910's and 1920's...(Essendon playing dead and not trying for monetary gain).

To systematic, widespread salary cap breaches and contract manipulations in the 90's including their period of success.

Right through to actively cheating through the doping/supplements scandal - far and away the worst thing to happen in our code.

It's just been a long history of not only Essendon taking the absolute piss with the integrity of the competition but the whole club constantly defending and trying to pretend they didn't do anything wrong. Mix in an almost constant state of hubris and arrogance*, constantly believing they win every trade, every draft and are at the forefront of everyone's worries every pre-season, they're just a pretty insufferable lot to supporters of most, if not all clubs.

Some liken the Hawthorn - Essendong rivalry to the Hawthorn - Geelong one, but Hawthorn supporters mostly have begrudging respect for Geelong and the way they go about it. The same cannot be said of Essendon - it's more disgust and little respect, with a strange feeling of pity mixed in over the last 20 years.

*(The worst part is - the arrogance mostly stems from "16 flags", despite the fact that those came decades before these people were born, with many 'earnt' during and in the immediate aftermath of a World War, where many clubs didn't/couldn't participate or were more focussed on serving/saving/rebuilding the nation).

Save for the odd individual, just a gross club really

 

[Fadge]

There are bigger rivalries in the AFL such as Carlton and Collingwood along with Geelong and Hawthorn but there is an element of respect between the two sides...

Collingwood supporters have zero respect for Carlton.

Why would they?