NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[sr36]

You always get personal when you don't have an answer. It's quite endearing.

How do you think the Herald Sun came about their copy of the Egan report?

I certainly don't think Egan leaked it to them.

No idea. Someone from Hawthorn, The AFL or the team who wrote it. Maybe even a cleaner.

I also have no idea how Jackson got wind of the story. Considering the timing, it could also have been from any of those sources. Or even directly from a family member.

But I'm looking forward to reading your guesses framed as truths. It's also endearing.

 

[Del191229]

My money would be on Egan or Kennett himself.

Or both.

Egan to Jackson.

Kennett to the Hun

 

[Gralin]

No idea. Someone from Hawthorn, The AFL or the team who wrote it. Maybe even a cleaner.

I also have no idea how Jackson got wind of the story. Considering the timing, it could also have been from any of those sources. Or even directly from a family member.

But I'm looking forward to reading your guesses framed as truths. It's also endearing.

I mean the Hawks were very public about commissioning the report after the Rioli article in The Age

It wouldn't be hard for a sports Journo interested in this sort of stuff to just go and look up who the hawks had on their list over the period the report was looking into and then going and making contact with those families to see if anyone wanted to talk about it.

It also wouldn't be hard for players that wanted to tell their story to look at the article Jackson did on Robby Muir and decide they would reach out to him or answer his questions

but that's way more boring than some conspiracy to white ant North Melbourne via making life difficult for the AFL investigation

 

[Del191229]

For sure? So you have evidence to back this accusation up then.
Wouldn't want you to get in trouble for defamation or anything, that would be bad judgment as a journalist


The faceless Hawthorn and the named black man in Egan....


I really don't give a s**t, there are multiple stops along the way that this could have been leaked by multiple people


at the end of the day the report was handed in and nothing was done for or said for weeks

the end result of that is what we have now

but again, you really personally seem worried about absolutely everything but the actual issue

and looking for anyone to blame at all whose name isn't Clarkson, Fagan or Burt

why would that be?

I see we're back to the bit where you pretend I don't keep posting about how I want the allegations properly investigated and thst if they're proven correct Clarkson can't coach us.

It's worth noting the report was sent to the AFL integrity unit as the author recommended before it was leaked.

I'll overlook your petty "black man" v "faceless Hawthorn" taunt because I've already factored in the power imbalance here that means you can say stuff I can't

 

[Del191229]

No idea. Someone from Hawthorn, The AFL or the team who wrote it. Maybe even a cleaner.

Folks on this thread love inventing ludicrous scenarios ... a cleaner leaked it ffs ... to avoid dealing with the realities of this.

 

[Del191229]

I mean the Hawks were very public about commissioning the report after the Rioli article in The Age

It wouldn't be hard for a sports Journo interested in this sort of stuff to just go and look up who the hawks had on their list over the period the report was looking into and then going and making contact with those families to see if anyone wanted to talk about it.

It also wouldn't be hard for players that wanted to tell their story to look at the article Jackson did on Robby Muir and decide they would reach out to him or answer his questions

but that's way more boring than some conspiracy to white ant North Melbourne via making life difficult for the AFL investigation

This would all make sense if Jackson's article didn't start by describing the Egan report and what it contains in detail.

I don't get why you've got such a bug up your arse about this.

 

[Gralin]

I see we're back to the bit where you pretend I don't keep posting about how I want the allegations properly investigated and thst if they're proven correct Clarkson can't coach us.

It's worth noting the report was sent to the AFL integrity unit as the author recommended before it was leaked.

I'll overlook your petty "black man" v "faceless Hawthorn" because I've already factored in the power imbalance here that means you can say stuff I can't

I might believe you if what you actually talked about in here were the allegations and the impact and the possible fallout

but you don't

you just complain about things you think have been done wrong by Jackson, suggest you know who leaked so you can lump them in with Jackson

interesting that you keep picking on Egan the author of the report with that as well

almost like your main aim in this thread is really to discredit him and Jackson

the two people you see as most responsible for this situation


I really don't think you give a shit about anything other than smearing those two and casting doubt over the allegations as much as possible by smearing those two

 

[sr36]

Folks on this thread love inventing ludicrous scenarios ... a cleaner leaked it ffs ... to avoid dealing with the realities of this.

Nice attempt to cherry pick, but if you interpreted that as me claiming a cleaner leaked it, you've got comprehension issues.

 

[Gralin]

This would all make sense if Jackson's article didn't start by describing the Egan report and what it contains in detail.

I don't get why you've got such a bug up your arse about this.

you mean this bit



that would have come from interviewing the players and families he spoke to for the article?

 

[Saucery]

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2022/10/20/ec26c687-76c6-4f64-b88a-bde3592df7ba/221020-Terms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

So it seems like the individuals have to make statements by the 11th of November to participate.

That gives them just 18 days to decide whether to participate and if so how and what evidence is presented to a panel.

The 'dissemination' of evidence to other participants by the 18th. (doesn't state whether it's all other submission or only those that relate to the individual involved).

Right of reply to be made by the 2nd of December. (So two weeks to answer all claims).

With a final submission by the 6th of December.

It starts with accusations then replies and an assessment.

If it's to be finished by Christmas, as the AFL has dictated, then the panel will have just shy of three weeks to decide whether all the evidence is admissible (that is, whether the panel will accept it) and decide upon the weight of that evidence (that is, how much importance the panel will give to it in reaching its decision).

As it will be a game of 'says you' and then a report, I think all sides will lose from such a rushed approach.

Except maybe Gil and the AFL.

 

[blackshadow]

you mean this bit

View attachment 1542310

that would have come from interviewing the players and families he spoke to for the article?

How would Jackson have known those allegations were in the report unless he’d seen the report?

If those he interviewed told him they’d given that information it doesn’t necessarily mean it made it to the report.

To make that statement you’d think the author would have had to have read the Hawthorn report.

 

[Makeshift Park]

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2022/10/20/ec26c687-76c6-4f64-b88a-bde3592df7ba/221020-Terms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

So it seems like the individuals have to make statements by the 11th of November to participate.

That gives them just 18 days to decide whether to participate and if so how and what evidence is presented to a panel.

The 'dissemination' of evidence to other participants by the 18th. (doesn't state whether it's all other submission or only those that relate to the individual involved).

Right of reply to be made by the 2nd of December. (So two weeks to answer all claims).

With a final submission by the 6th of December.

It starts with accusations then replies and an assessment.

If it's to be finished by Christmas, as the AFL has dictated, then the panel will have just shy of three weeks to decide whether all the evidence is admissible (that is, whether the panel will accept it) and decide upon the weight of that evidence (that is, how much importance the panel will give to it in reaching its decision).

As it will be a game of 'says you' and then a report, I think all sides will lose from such a rushed approach.

Except maybe Gil and the AFL.

Thanks for the link, that's the first time I've seen this document.

Mods, can we get this into the sticky post?

“Inappropriate Conduct” includes:
i. racist behaviour;
ii. bullying, and/or intimidatory conduct whether towards HFC listed players, and/or their intimate partners, friends or families;
iii. inappropriate intrusion upon or purported control (including coercive control), over the family, cultural and/or non-football lives and wellbeing of HFC listed players and/or their intimate partners, friends and families;
iv. racialized and/or gendered stereotyping directed towards First Nations players, their families and intimate partners;
v. conduct unbecoming or likely to prejudice the interests or reputation of the AFL, or bring the game of football into disrepute, within the meaning of clause 2.3(a) of the AFL Rules; and
vi. Notifiable Conduct, as defined in the AFL Rules.

Jeepers that's broad, particularly the bold bit.

 

[Wosh]

Lions board to discuss Fagan's return after Hawks allegations

Chris Fagan is likely to return to his duties as Brisbane coach in the near future, CEO Greg Swann says

www.afl.com.au

 

[Del191229]

I might believe you if what you actually talked about in here were the allegations and the impact and the possible fallout

but you don't

you just complain about things you think have been done wrong by Jackson, suggest you know who leaked so you can lump them in with Jackson

interesting that you keep picking on Egan the author of the report with that as well

almost like your main aim in this thread is really to discredit him and Jackson

the two people you see as most responsible for this situation


I really don't think you give a s**t about anything other than smearing those two and casting doubt over the allegations as much as possible by smearing those two

Lol @ "discredit".

This thread isn't going to be submitted as evidence.

And I'm really "casting doubt" by saying I believe the allegations, can see how they happened, right down in expressing in detail how Clarkson and Fagan woukd have come across as bullying white men like the rest.

And now you're trying to imply I'm racist. All because, frankly I'm not sure why.

None of this happened at my club. It happened at your club.

Oh but that's right, you're affecting the tedious teenagers nihilism of not even caring maaan

 

[Del191229]

you mean this bit

View attachment 1542310

that would have come from interviewing the players and families he spoke to for the article?

And this bit. How does he know it was handed to management two weeks ago?



He knows what's in it, how it is structured, and even where it is now lolol.

 

[Forward Press]

How would Jackson have known those allegations were in the report unless he’d seen the report?

If those he interviewed told him they’d given that information it doesn’t necessarily mean it made it to the report.

To make that statement you’d think the author would have had to have read the Hawthorn report.

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

According to the families of three players interviewed by ABC Sport, the incidents at the centre of the review allegedly took place during Clarkson's time as head coach...

 

[Makeshift Park]

inappropriate intrusion upon or purported control (including coercive control), over the family, cultural and/or non-football lives and wellbeing of HFC listed players and/or their intimate partners, friends and families;

Just thinking about this a bit more.
The trip when Clarkson surprised Buddy in Las Vegas would be inappropriate conduct under the definition of this ToR.

 

[Del191229]

I'm famous for my racism hey ferball

The North board are always like there goes Simpkin again with his racism.

The big old racist.

 

[Del191229]

Just thinking about this a bit more.
The trip when Clarkson surprised Buddy in Las Vegas would be inappropriate conduct under the definition of this ToR.

So is Richmond telling Dusty Martin who he can and can't socialise with.

I really hope the investigation does get Buddy up to discuss that Las Vegas incident though.

 

[Del191229]

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

How did he know which players to contact, and what subjects to raise.

Or were they waiting for his call?

 

[yeahmate]

Its seems very obvious to me who leaked it and it wasnt Hawthorn or the AFL

 

[perplexed]

Where does this come from? Players were asked to participate in Hawthorn's review. They and others spoke to a journalist who wanted to tell their story - where is the imperative coming from that they have to be tested? Because the AFL says so? Maybe if they were getting sued personally for defamation they would need to defend themselves but until then?

Telling their stories to the press is a pretty big bomb for the players to drop and then walk away, but I suppose that could happen. Their claims are going to be tested by others regardless of their involvement.

 

[Del191229]

Its seems very obvious to me who leaked it and it wasnt Hawthorn or the AFL

Which leak though? There's been two.

 

[sr36]

Thanks for the link, that's the first time I've seen this document.

Mods, can we get this into the sticky post?


Jeepers that's broad, particularly the bold bit.

That's the point which is missed by some. If the stories are remotely true, there is no total mitigation. It doesn't matter if they're not racist. It doesn't matter if the players were off the rails or not. It doesn't matter about the intentions of the players. Even if there's a fair bit of mayo on the stories, the stories are of well and truly crossing the line into inappropriate intrusion into personal lives of players.

 

[South of the Yarra]

It would be extremely rare for young Aboriginal people to seek out the press. Most would be hiding from it.