NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[Del191229]

That may be evidence that Jackson had seen the report. I don't really agree that it is conclusive though. How is it evidence that Egan leaked it to him?

Even if you are correct that the report was leaked to Jackson - you've got Egan - the rest of his team, the AFL and Hawthorn all with a copy of the report two weeks before the Jackson article was published.

Do you think the AFL would have leaked it to ruin their own Grand Final ffs?

Hawthorn almost certainly leaked it to the Hun after.

It's hilarious just how creative people are getting to avoid the obvious.

 

[Del191229]

cactus if I know, but on the one hand you're screaming that poor Clarko got dun wrong by people who assume he's guilty, then on the other you're making a definite claim that Egan is the leaker.

Pick a lane.

Show me where I've screamed poor old Clsrko got dun wrong?

Go on, find the post.

I've said repeatedly that the allegations need to be investigated, preferably by a body with Royal Commission powers.

You're making stuff up.

 

[sr36]

Do you think the AFL would have leaked it to ruin their own Grand Final ffs?

Hawthorn almost certainly leaked it to the Hun after.

It's hilarious just how creative people are getting to avoid the obvious.

I don't think any of the three groups who had access to the report - the writers, the AFL or Hawthorn stood to benefit from the leak, but individuals within those organisations may have wanted to blow the whistle for a variety of different reasons.

But even before that you haven't even established that the report itself was leaked, although I do think at the least it is likely that someone told Jackson that there was some horrific content in it. Your big evidence seems to be that Jackson referenced when the report was given to Hawthorn and the AFL. Was the timing of the handing down of the report itself even a secret that required leaking? Genuine question as I have no idea.

 

[ferball]

I've lived a lot in other countries and know of the need to adjust customs for cultural reasons, but not indigenous specific stuff. A lot of the eye contact that you're referencing in terms of Ingenous culture is seen similarly throughout Asia - same with the concept of whether it is interpreted as a suggestion rather than a command when it comes from the position of a person in power. Embarassingly, I know very little about indigenous culture - past or present. Probably even less than most, as I was overseas for much of the last 15 years when there has been a gradual shift towards understanding and accepting indigenous culture, rather than multiculturalism being viewed as people from different races all living like "Aussies", which was pretty much what most people meant when they talked about an ideal of multiculturalism - including during the time of the Hawthorn review.

I wasn't trying to talk down to anyone who didn't know that stuff. in my experience its not widely known in Australian culture but I try to avoid cities and people generally...

Its an interesting difference. The idea of dominating people with your handshakes and eye contact is an insecure one imo but we all take it for granted as a standard thing.

 

[JackOutback]

When I worked as a journalist, both here and overseas, I understood that forming relationships with my sources was the best way to get stories.

That often took time, and certainly required respect and cultural understanding.

Going by your user name and the way you present, I suspect you worked for some shitty WA publications that demonised Aboriginal people to flog papers/get clicks.

It's interesting that Yolngu has repeatedly posted on this thread exactly how young Aboriginal people will react to media

It's the exact opposite of your cowboy approach.

Here and overseas now? Mate, you don't understand the fundamentals of journalism, adding more mayo to your claims isn't convincing anyone.

And my user name has no correlation to to my location, it was an old reference. That said, being from WA, I've actually met a lot of Indigenous people, something that can't always be said of people from Melbourne. They are part of my family. I never needed a personal recommendation to speak to anyone. You're taking a comment about Indigenous people being wary of the media (as many people are) and deciding 1+1=3.

 

[Del191229]

As I've said previously, there is a quasi religious devotion to The Article and it's author, anyone who dares question it slightly is a sinner and heretic who must be cast out.

It's creepy and weird.

 

[Del191229]

Genuine question as I have no idea.

Yet you angrily contest everything I post, often inventing ludicrous scenarios like "a cleaner leaked it".

I get you're worshipping at the Church of St Russell and the Holy Article and that's fine, albeit deeply weird to me.

I live in the real world though. Not surd there is much to be gained from further discussion

 

[sr36]

Its an interesting difference. The idea of dominating people with your handshakes and eye contact is an insecure one imo but we all take it for granted as a standard thing.

I don't think that stuff is insecure. It's significant in cross cultural communication. It's like Burt Newton learning that he just couldn't call Muhammad Ali "boy". I've previously, ignorantly, got irritated with Koreans and demanded eye contact without knowing that they were respecting authority by looking at the floor and not making eye contact with me. And I've told a kid off because I thought he was being a smart arse when he respectfully bowed towards me.

 

[Forward Press]

Show me where I've screamed poor old Clsrko got dun wrong?

Go on, find the post.

I've said repeatedly that the allegations need to be investigated, preferably by a body with Royal Commission powers.

You're making stuff up.

It would be easier to find posts where you don't mention Clarko was hard done by.

Tempted to put you on ignore but the ridiculous bias is funny.

 

[Del191229]

Genuine question as I have no idea.

Yet you angrily contest everything I post, often inventing ludicrous scenarios like "a cleaner leaked it".

I get you're worshipping at the Church of St Russell and the Holy Article and that's fine, albeit deeply weird to me.

I live in the real world though. Not surd there is much to be gained from further discussion

 

[Chief]

Show me where I've screamed poor old Clsrko got dun wrong?

Every post you make on this subject insinuates it.

That time you snarkily told me I had already made up my mind that Clarko was guilty.

 

[sr36]

Yet you angrily contest everything I post, often inventing ludicrous scenarios like "a cleaner leaked it".

I get you're worshipping at the Church of St Russell and the Holy Article and that's fine, albeit deeply weird to me.

I live in the real world though. Not surd there is much to be gained from further discussion

I actually knew you'd pick out that line, just as I knew you'd pick out the cleaner line in order to willfully misconstrue and ignore the point I was making and the question I was asking. It's a classic disingenuous tactic.

I'll ask the same question again though. What evidence pointing to Egan do you have that makes you claim that he leaked the report? You've given zero so far, yet continually claim that he leaked the report. It's really poor form.

 

[Del191229]

It would be easier to find posts where you don't mention Clarko was hard done by.

Surely you can find one where I contest the veracity of the allegations or say Clsrkson shouldn't face investigation.

Just one.

 

[Del191229]

Every post you make on this subject insinuates it.

"Insinuates" it lol.

So no, there aren't any and it's just something you've decided because I don't share your religious faith in Rusty and The Article.

Given his embarrassing climb down after defaming an AFL club president, it's quite a display of faith too.

 

[Chief]

"Insinuates" it lol.

So no, there aren't any and it's just something you've decided because I don't share your religious faith in Rusty and The Article.

SHOW ME THA POSTS WHERE I SAID DAT! GRRRR!!!

 

[FlyHigh18]

You cannot say this is just coercive control and not racist.

Thats not how intersectionality actually works. The impact of race on the situation has to be taken into account as well.

Telling a first nations player to do those things is not the same as telling a white player to do it.

Both are reprehensible but one of those players doesn't have the stolen generation and 200+ years of colonisation adding to what that means, looks or feels like

wait till you find out what we make 18yr old first nations draftees do

 

[Forward Press]

Surely you can find one where I contest the veracity of the allegations or say Clsrkson shouldn't face investigation.

Just one.

Not the point of my post, and you know it.

You have been posting hundreds of times saying the ABC and Jackson was reckless, negligent or just plain malicious in naming Clarkson, citing your own journalistic experience and unrelated investigative reports from history. Hence, 'Clarko dun wrong'.

You have also questioned the nature of the allegations plenty of times by shooting the messenger, citing experiences of other staff and players at Hawthorn, and the alleged victims' reluctance to speak further, so backtracking now and saying 'well I never did that' is disingenuous.

I now look forward to you selectively quoting one contested aspect of this post to claim a 'victory' and shift the goalpost yet again.

 

[Del191229]

I actually knew you'd pick out that line, just as I knew you'd pick out the cleaner line in order to willfully misconstrue and ignore the point I was making and the question I was asking. It's a classic disingenuous tactic.

Maybe don't post stuff like that then.

And people are always inventing stuff in my posts that's not there, including you.

 

[Del191229]

SHOW ME THA POSTS WHERE I SAID DAT! GRRRR!!!

You insinuate it with every post: stern face

 

[Del191229]

Not the point of my post, and you know it.

You have been posting hundreds of times saying the ABC and Jackson was reckless, negligent or just plain malicious in naming Clarkson, citing your own journalistic experience and unrelated investigative reports from history. Hence, 'Clarko dun wrong'.

You have also questioned the nature of the allegations plenty of times by shooting the messenger, citing experiences of other staff and players at Hawthorn, and the alleged victims' reluctance to speak further, so backtracking now and saying 'well I never did that' is disingenuous.

I now look forward to you selectively quoting one contested aspect of this post to claim a 'victory' and shift the goalpost yet again.

So it's more the vibe of the thing?

 

[JyeDye]

Maybe don't post stuff like that then.

And people are always inventing stuff in my posts that's not there, including you.

You have literally posted like 400 times in this thread. I'm pretty sure we know your position.

 

[blackshadow]

wait till you find out what we make 18yr old first nations draftees do

We send them to the seventh plane of hell Alberton.

 

[hawkman]

Which people would have known those details.

It's actually very very few.

Like, count on one hand.

So run me through who it could have been?

There would be more 10. Senior people at Hawthorn, members of the AFL Integrity Dept, senior AFL people and probably the Hawthorn board, Egan and any others that may have assisted him

Anyone could have leaked it! Someone with a axe to grind with Clarkson, someone at either Hawthorn or AFL who felt the AFL was going to stick in a drawer

 

[sr36]

Maybe don't post stuff like that then.

And people are always inventing stuff in my posts that's not there, including you.

You intentionally took the quotes out of context, either that or showed very poor reading comprehension. Essentially the two things you've been critical of Jackson for - naming names without enough evidence or in your case no evidence and poor or intentional miscomprehension due to being too invested and biased are the two things that you have continually done. It's really bizarre. If your criticisms of Jackson are accurate, you may actually be his alter ego.

 

[Laphroaig]

Are you seriously asking where the racism comes in with this situation?

Its all over this thread and the media and everywhere.

Trying to separate those players from their families or getting them to abort

The response in the media and public.

The response in here.

Your mate woke Simmo has been pointing out whit institutions and the media attacking Lidia, but then also doing fun stuff like promoting an article from the age that attacked Lidia, go figure.

You cannot say this is just coercive control and not racist.

Thats not how intersectionality actually works. The impact of race on the situation has to be taken into account as well.

Telling a first nations player to do those things is not the same as telling a white player to do it.

Both are reprehensible but one of those players doesn't have the stolen generation and 200+ years of colonisation adding to what that means, looks or feels like

Wow.

At last this thread has produced something amazing.

The bold new concept that treating people the same regardless of their race or the color of their skin is obviously racist.

And that treating people differently BECAUSE of their race or skin color is the only way to not behave in a racist manner.

I am not convinced, however, that the 1963 Time Magazine Man of the Year would agree with these novel concepts.