NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[blackshadow]

No idea. There is a club statement rehashed by fox. Lions extend coach’s contract, reveal two new captains ahead of 2023 season

I found plenty of reports using plain old dumb Google.

 

[the big lebowski]

I don't know, were they?

Were their names just mentioned in the broader allegation of poor behaviour, or were they specifically called out as doing s**t things?

You’d think you’d be more across the situation given your constant posting in this thread.

 

[sr36]

Were the accusations not aimed at Fagan, Burt and Clarkson?

Of course they were. But Clarko was the boss, so he gets the most credit for the flags and the most discredit if he was involved in anything untoward that was done by the coaching group.

 

[the big lebowski]

Of course they were. But Clarko was the boss, so he gets the most credit for the flags and the most discredit if he was involved in anything untoward that was done by the coaching group.

More “credit” than Burt the player welfare manager?

That’s an odd statement

 

[sr36]

More “credit” than Burt the player welfare manager?

That’s an odd statement

Are you being sarcastic regarding Burt getting "credit" for the flags?

Or do you mean that the welfare manager should be more discredited if this occurred. Very true if the organisation is properly structured. I suppose myself and others are assuming that Clarko would have been calling the shots due to all the talk that Clarko insisted on control of everything.

 

[the big lebowski]

Are you being sarcastic regarding Burt getting "credit" for the flags?

Or do you mean that the welfare manager should be more discredited if this occurred. Very true if the organisation is properly structured. I suppose myself and others are assuming that Clarko would have been calling the shots due to all the talk that Clarko insisted on control of everything.

I was just alluding to the fact that each should be judged on what they actually did. Nothing to do with flags or other peripheral matters.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Gee, they're really coming for Clarko now...

 

[sr36]

I was just alluding to the fact that each should be judged on what they actually did. Nothing to do with flags or other peripheral matters.

The stories are of the 3 working together. If they're true, the boss gets the most blame.

 

[perplexed]

More “credit” than Burt the player welfare manager?

That’s an odd statement

Or maybe Leon Egan, the Indigenous Liaison Officer at the time, whose name appears nowhere at all in the report. And oddly, doesn't appear to have been interviewed by either his cousin or Russell Jackson.

 

[Strange Cat]

You need to get a grip on reality and stop acting like someone died

Yep attack me instead of acknowledging that you are victim blaming

 

[mcnulty]

Or maybe Leon Egan, the Indigenous Liaison Officer at the time, whose name appears nowhere at all in the report. And oddly, doesn't appear to have been interviewed by either his cousin or Russell Jackson.

I think Egan actually interviewing his cousin might have been a bridge too far, even for this debacle.

 

[sr36]

Or maybe Leon Egan, the Indigenous Liaison Officer at the time, whose name appears nowhere at all in the report. And oddly, doesn't appear to have been interviewed by either his cousin or Russell Jackson.

Might be more appropriate to wait until there is a suggestion that Leon Egan was involved before pointing the finger at Leon Egan. Unless you think that a bloke who wasn't allowed into the clubrooms after a GF win somehow had the coaches at his beck and call...

 

[perplexed]

Might be more appropriate to wait until there is a suggestion that Leon Egan was involved before pointing the finger at Leon Egan. Unless you think that a bloke who wasn't allowed into the clubrooms after a GF win somehow had the coaches at his beck and call...

I'm not pointing the finger at Leon Egan. It seems he was completely sidelined throughout. I just find it bizarre that he doesn't feature anywhere in any of this. Because of his position, he should be able to shed light on what actually happened, but nobody seems to have even spoken to him.

 

[ferball]

Yet here you are, defending Clarko at every turn…

"At every turn" - give me a list of his crimes then.

I haven't been on this thread for ages cos frankly its a joke.

 

[sr36]

I'm not pointing the finger at Leon Egan. It seems he was completely sidelined throughout. I just find it bizarre that he doesn't feature anywhere in any of this. Because of his position, he should be able to shed light on what actually happened, but nobody seems to have even spoken to him.

Can't say I know who was spoken to be Jackson, Egan or who has been contacted by the inquiry. The report doesn't cover it. Jackson only mentions three potential culprits How do you know who has or hasn't been spoken to?

 

[ferball]

Yes I did check it out. Machine learning reducing human intelligence may well take away our competitive evolutionary edge. We risk becoming obese diabetic low intelligence beings, lazy, emotionally weak, cacooned from life's struggles, unable to fend for ourselves when the power goes out, exstinct. Unless we act!

Good lawd - when does the footy start?

A good start is never using a GPS to get around and learning to use a map if you can't and need to go somewhere you're unfamiliar with.

You shouldn't need a box full of circuits to tell you where you been, where you're going and how to get there.

 

[perplexed]

Can't say I know who was spoken to be Jackson, Egan or who has been contacted by the inquiry. The report doesn't cover it. Jackson only mentions three potential culprits How do you know who has or hasn't been spoken to?

They may have. But I would expect him to be referenced somewhere, especially in the report. He was also the obvious person for Jackson to go to corroborate the allegations he was fed. If he did so, I don't understand why he wouldn't be quoted or referenced.

Further to this. I flicked back through the report and realised it doesn't anywhere discuss the cultural safety mechanisms Hawthorn had in place at the time. This is crazy for a 'cultural safety review'.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Of course they were. But Clarko was the boss, so he gets the most credit for the flags and the most discredit if he was involved in anything untoward that was done by the coaching group.

If Clarko was involved in all of the allegations then he should take the brunt of the punishment or discredit as you put it. What is happening to the others is still relevant to this thread as is what is happening at Hawthorn. Not an accusation I would point at you but many posters on here seem to think the title of this thread is 'Alastair Clarkson Racism Review - How racist is he?'.

 

[ferball]

Whether or not you give a s**t is dictated by randoms on the internet?

Yeah its pretty obviously just an excuse to pile on us. I mean there's Buckley in the media who has no criticism. He let his players refer to one their team mates as a chimp cos he was black. Ross Lyon, who certainly treated women more inappropriately than Clarkson did with this reporter now has a coaching gig. No thread about that.

Half you pricks are just scared that our time will come and before the decades out we'll have a bunch of flags under Clarkson (while you lot in particular struggle to find a training venue.)

The discussion in this thread has **** all to do with Hawthorn's racism.

And its not even an issue at our club. How many other clubs had indigenous people coach them or captain the side? Not many.

If any club is gonna straighten out his supposed racism its us altho if people like Phil Krakouer don't have a problem with him then that holds more weight than anything you randoms can come up with.

 

[ferball]

In truth looking back I did misquote, though the difference between "you will get yours" and "your time will come" is splitting of hairs over intent.

And I won't move on from my original comment before getting side tracked. I am concerned that this issue has run on far too long and only joined this thread when I discovered Clackson is hold up the very proceedings has wished expedited quickly, but is now waiting on some paperwork from Hawthorn. Why?

The allegations are all verbal statements, surely he will only be asked to respond to those? This saga is affecting my club too you know so pretending it's the world against North Melbourne is just crying wolf. What is Alistair waiting on, does anyone know? Serious question. It might be his separation certificate for all we know. Strange behaviour as it's not a law court but a AFL, er independent panel of investigation.

Serious answer - maybe he's waiting for a copy of the original report and possibly some info on the people who made the complaints. After all their identity is sposed to be protected and maybe he doesn't remember the incidents in question. Or it could be specific info relating to the incident that sheds a different light on it.

 

[blackshadow]

I wonder if the information Clarko is waiting for is old HR records pertaining to those making allegations.

The time frame for the allegations is more than seven years ago. By law records only need to be kept for seven years so the club records may have been destroyed or archived - archived records can take some time to retrieve.

I’m sure there was mention somewhere about AFLPA providing support for one of the player partners involved and Burt figures prominently in the allegations, given his position and other information that was published I’d find it hard to believe that there wouldn’t be HR records.

If there aren’t records then Hawthorn has been rather derelict in their duties as far as HR record keeping goes.

 

[ferball]

On the scale of 's**t things to do to people' I'd have thought pressuring a player to cut-off contact with their pregnant partner and push them to have an abortion was pretty high.

For someone that keeps trying to tell us 'white people' that we're racist, you're really downplaying what he's been accused of doing.

Yeah well I have some experience with racism and with indigenous communities, and I can see how that situation was interpreted by some people one way and other people another way, cos I've seen that shit happen before.

So I'm waiting for more information before I accept that's the true account of events.

He's been accused of what amounts to race based eugenics. If he's shown to have done that he's gone and has no future in the industry. Everything less than that is probably open to mediation tho, which would probably be why that's the prefered outcome of the families involved in the AFL investigation.

But its a very serious accusation and so he needs a fair hearing.

Clarkson spent a year becoming a better coach on Hawthorn's dime cos they ****ed him over with a contract. He's now the subject of a pile of shit after a report that was written by someone facing charges for defrauding an indigenous organisation and whose supposedly confidential report was leaked in spectacular fashion just after (not before) he signed a coaching contract and during the most important week in footy.

They are very serious accusations at their worst, could easily be beaten up or 100% accurate, but the circumstances surrounding the report and its release are certainly dodgy. And the charges Egan is facing don't help its credibility.

Which is unfortunate for the people he interviewed. I'd be really pissed off in their position after all this carry on.

 

[domin8]

Yeah its pretty obviously just an excuse to pile on us. I mean there's Buckley in the media who has no criticism. He let his players refer to one their team mates as a chimp cos he was black. Ross Lyon, who certainly treated women more inappropriately than Clarkson did with this reporter now has a coaching gig. No thread about that.

Half you pricks are just scared that our time will come and before the decades out we'll have a bunch of flags under Clarkson (while you lot in particular struggle to find a training venue.)

The discussion in this thread has * all to do with Hawthorn's racism.

And its not even an issue at our club. How many other clubs had indigenous people coach them or captain the side? Not many.

If any club is gonna straighten out his supposed racism its us altho if people like Phil Krakouer don't have a problem with him then that holds more weight than anything you randoms can come up with.

****ing lol

 

[ferball]

I meant the same thing that I've said about this since day 1.

It's very, very possible that Clarkson did all the stuff that he's been accused of, and it's also very, very possible that his intentions were good.
And it's also very, very possible that his idea of good intentions is very different to many others, and as a result what he views as him being a good bloke - could be interpreted as him being an arseh*le by others.

He's obviously an arseh*le.

he's a single minded campaigner who couldn't give a shit about anything other than his footy players and their on field success. Considering the coaching we've had for the last decade or so that's great for us.

I'm not sure that Fagan is really in the firing line though, is he?

It's never really felt like he ever has been to be honest.

Yeah funny that. Its almost as if this whole thing is aimed at discrediting Clarkson ... and its come from the club he just left after he won them four flags. Its pretty obvious certain people at Hawthorn don't want him involved in coaching any more and I can understand why. It makes it harder for them to achieve any more success.

For all this shit he cops about racism, Hawthorn's recruitment mirrored the white Australia policy before he came along and got indigenous players to the club.

 

[ferball]

So again she deserves it right ?

You are really doing everything you can to place the blame on the reporter rather than on Clarkson’s behaviour

Why is Moss blameless in this situation?

Just doing her job?

Why should people be nice to reporters anyway? Most of them are jerks, especially in the MSM.