NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[boncer34]

Yeah its pretty obviously just an excuse to pile on us. I mean there's Buckley in the media who has no criticism. He let his players refer to one their team mates as a chimp cos he was black. Ross Lyon, who certainly treated women more inappropriately than Clarkson did with this reporter now has a coaching gig. No thread about that.

Half you pricks are just scared that our time will come and before the decades out we'll have a bunch of flags under Clarkson (while you lot in particular struggle to find a training venue.)

The discussion in this thread has * all to do with Hawthorn's racism.

And its not even an issue at our club. How many other clubs had indigenous people coach them or captain the side? Not many.

If any club is gonna straighten out his supposed racism its us altho if people like Phil Krakouer don't have a problem with him then that holds more weight than anything you randoms can come up with.

You seem upset.

 

[Engimal v3]

I think you overestimate how much time opposition fans spend thinking about North or trolling North.

There's definitely several posters in this thread that post more about North than they do about their own club, and I love it

We're the most relevant irrelevant club ever. I can't wait until they tell me for the 10th time this year how much they don't care about us lol

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

He's obviously an arsehole.

he's a single minded campaigner who couldn't give a s**t about anything other than his footy players and their on field success. Considering the coaching we've had for the last decade or so that's great for us.



Yeah funny that. Its almost as if this whole thing is aimed at discrediting Clarkson ... and its come from the club he just left after he won them four flags. Its pretty obvious certain people at Hawthorn don't want him involved in coaching any more and I can understand why. It makes it harder for them to achieve any more success.

For all this s**t he cops about racism, Hawthorn's recruitment mirrored the white Australia policy before he came along and got indigenous players to the club.

I don't think this is a racism issue, in terms of how most people perceive racism to be.

IMO, and it's clearly just MO, he's not a racist guy. But I do reckon he behaved in a way that in 2022/23, is considered racist. At best, racially insensitive.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

You seem upset.

Obviously he's going to have a bit of emotion. As he stated in a previous post, he has some experience in this area.

Instead of factoring that in you've opted with the bay response

 

[sr36]

They may have. But I would expect him to be referenced somewhere, especially in the report. He was also the obvious person for Jackson to go to corroborate the allegations he was fed. If he did so, I don't understand why he wouldn't be quoted or referenced.

Further to this. I flicked back through the report and realised it doesn't anywhere discuss the cultural safety mechanisms Hawthorn had in place at the time. This is crazy for a 'cultural safety review'.

The review wasn't really a proper review. It was a satisfaction survey, which got some dissatisfied opinions and stories. Whilst I believe those stories, it's only now in the inquiry that we're really getting a review.

 

[Consolaçao]

I’ve been thinking about this for months.
The more I ponder the narrative I’ve fabricated to accommodate the few confirmed facts I have concerning this case, the more convinced I am that Clarkson did a structural racism to those players and their wives.

 

[ferball]

You seem upset.

You reckon?

I'm mildly bemused by it.

It seems people only care about racism in this instance because it involves us (Clarkson is one of us now) not because its something they actually care about.

Obviously that's irritating.

 

[ferball]

Yep, North the only club to have an indigenous head AFL/VFL coach. Also, the only club to have an indigenous coach that was a kiddy fiddler.

Glass houses mate.

 

[gordo2016]

Obviously he's going to have a bit of emotion. As he stated in a previous post, he has some experience in this area.

Instead of factoring that in you've opted with the bay response

What experience have you had with racism and indigenous communities? What indigenous communities?

 

[the big lebowski]

The review wasn't really a proper review. It was a satisfaction survey, which got some dissatisfied opinions and stories. Whilst I believe those stories, it's only now in the inquiry that we're really getting a review.

I’m not saying this is the case, but what chances do you put on clarko, fagan and Burt or a subset of those 3, not even having to address the panel?

Those three were specifically named in 2 of the 3 abc stories, and unless something has changed we were told that one of those stories isn’t being addressed as the 2 involved aren’t participating (abortion story). The other concerning story involved a “forced separation” and there is an assumption that those two people also chose not to participate.

That leaves the final abc story which never spoke about clarko, fagan and Burt and didn’t really seem to be about them. We know the riolis made a submission who have a serious gripe with Kennett, and other parties that seemingly took part in the hawthorn review but didn’t speak to the abc. Who knows what their grievances are but it seems unlikely they are of the seriousness that the main two issues are.

It would seem like an odd decision to re-contract fagan if they were still unsure of the outcome.

 

[boncer34]

You reckon?

I'm mildly bemused by it.

It seems people only care about racism in this instance because it involves us (Clarkson is one of us now) not because its something they actually care about.

Obviously that's irritating.

Yeah nobody gave a **** about racism till North got involved.

 

[perplexed]

The review wasn't really a proper review. It was a satisfaction survey, which got some dissatisfied opinions and stories. Whilst I believe those stories, it's only now in the inquiry that we're really getting a review.

It may have been a satisfaction survey. But wasn't claimed as such. It ignores the terms of reference in that it completely fails to

(iii). Review current policies and practices in light of what is learned, to ensure that the HFC provides an appropriate and supportive environment for players and staff.

You can't do this without reviewing the policies in place at the time. Basically, the report is utter trash with some headline quotes to distract from its lack of substance.

 

[blackshadow]

I’ve been thinking about this for months.
The more I ponder the narrative I’ve fabricated to accommodate the few confirmed facts I have concerning this case, the more convinced I am that Clarkson did a structural racism to those players and their wives.

What pray tell is a structural racism?

 

[sr36]

I’m not saying this is the case, but what chances do you put on clarko, fagan and Burt or a subset of those 3, not even having to address the panel?

Those three were specifically named in 2 of the 3 abc stories, and unless something has changed we were told that one of those stories isn’t being addressed as the 2 involved aren’t participating (abortion story). The other concerning story involved a “forced separation” and there is an assumption that those two people also chose not to participate.

That leaves the final abc story which never spoke about clarko, fagan and Burt and didn’t really seem to be about them. We know the riolis made a submission who have a serious gripe with Kennett, and other parties that seemingly took part in the hawthorn review but didn’t speak to the abc. Who knows what their grievances are but it seems unlikely they are of the seriousness that the main two issues are.

It would seem like an odd decision to re-contract fagan if they were still unsure of the outcome.

I've got no idea how it actually works. But I'd Guess they'd still be questioned about the claims from non-inquiry participants and it's possible that there will be testimony from others or evidence in other forms, but chances are if they deny those claims, there'll be no negative findings about them.

Yes. I'd suggest re-contracting Fagan would be a risk, unless they believed there wouldn't be a negative finding or consequence. I think it's either a very confident or very ballsy move.

 

[sr36]

It may have been a satisfaction survey. But wasn't claimed as such. It ignores the terms of reference in that it completely fails to

(iii). Review current policies and practices in light of what is learned, to ensure that the HFC provides an appropriate and supportive environment for players and staff.

You can't do this without reviewing the policies in place at the time. Basically, the report is utter trash with some headline quotes to distract from its lack of substance.

I'm not going to slag off the report too much, because we don't really know if the leaked report was the entirety. But I'd happily agree that the leaked report suggests low quality in terms of methodology, conclusions which go way beyond the scope of the methodology it and the writing is poor too. And you're right there seems to be no mention of policies despite it being part of the scope

Basically, I think Hawthorn commissioned a satisfaction survey. They didn't go through experts in the field or look to find things to impact the future. They expected the thumbs up from the satisfaction survey, so they could put the Cyril story to bed and gave it the title of cultural safety review to add wait to what they thought was going to be positive. Job done. Move on. But alas...

Nonetheless, the satisfaction survey unearthed some significant complaints that need to be investigated.

P.S. Collingwood has a shameful history in terms of racism, but like Eddie, I'm a bit proud of the review our club did. Unfortunately, due to the media response to it, no other club will do a similar one. I really hope we follow through with the recommendations.

 

[Demons09]

What pray tell is a structural racism?

Ease up mate he’s thought about it for months.

 

[Osho]

A good start is never using a GPS to get around and learning to use a map if you can't and need to go somewhere you're unfamiliar with.

You shouldn't need a box full of circuits to tell you where you been, where you're going and how to get there.

A compass and a cut lunch!

 

[sr36]

Yes I did check it out. Machine learning reducing human intelligence may well take away our competitive evolutionary edge. We risk becoming obese diabetic low intelligence beings, lazy, emotionally weak, cacooned from life's struggles, unable to fend for ourselves when the power goes out, exstinct. Unless we act!

Good lawd - when does the footy start?

There was a slightly more recent book. I think it was an Aussie best seller - theorising that farming and urbanisation took away our evolutionary edge a few centuries ago.

Basically, the theory is that hunter gatherers survived through intelligence and skill. Whereas once farming made food abundant, and urbanisation occurred, the biggest factor regarding survival of the fittest was no longer skills or intelligence, it was having a strong immune system that stopped you dying when disease swept through the urban areas.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

What experience have you had with racism and indigenous communities? What indigenous communities?

Ummmmm...can you read? I'm talking about Ferball's comments. He has clearly explained his experiences. It has nothing to do with me

 

[gordo2016]

Ummmmm...can you read? I'm talking about Ferball's comments. He has clearly explained his experiences. It has nothing to do with me

Ok.

 

[Osho]

There was a slightly more recent book. I think it was an Aussie best seller - theorising that farming and urbanisation took away our evolutionary edge a few centuries ago.

Basically, the theory is that hunter gatherers survived through intelligence and skill. Whereas once farming made food abundant, and urbanisation occurred, the biggest factor regarding survival of the fittest was no longer skills or intelligence, it was having a strong immune system that stopped you dying when disease swept through the urban areas.

That's interesting.
I always thought for some reason or another hunter gatherers developed good immune systems due to variety of diet. This may be borne out by comparitive remains analysis of hgs and farmers. From a book read long ago...

Dense populations are ripe for disease due to ease of spread. Coupled with abundance of food product rather than real food, it's a recipe for poor health.

My Vietnamese doctor insists the fundamentally most important part of the body is the GI system, everything derives from it. He reckons 99% of docs know fa abt diet and nutrition, ironically, the most important part of health, he says. He also brews the most wicked rice wine at home, I verify its effectiveness, and lack of hangover.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

rice wine huh...

 

[ferball]

I don't think this is a racism issue, in terms of how most people perceive racism to be.

IMO, and it's clearly just MO, he's not a racist guy. But I do reckon he behaved in a way that in 2022/23, is considered racist. At best, racially insensitive.

But he didn't do that in 2022/23 did he.

Also, whatever the rights and wrongs of his run in with the reporter he was prepared to reflect on his behaviour, discuss the issue with her and apologise. Which kind of implies he'd also reflect on 2022 cultural sensitivity standards and act with them in mind if he was in a similar situation again.

 

[Rod Stroker]

Lions have just given the finger to this drawn out and farcical review process, by extending him for 2 more years. "We back our man".

 

[sr36]

That's interesting.
I always thought for some reason or another hunter gatherers developed good immune systems due to variety of diet. This may be borne out by comparitive remains analysis of hgs and farmers. From a book read long ago...

Dense populations are ripe for disease due to ease of spread. Coupled with abundance of food product rather than real food, it's a recipe for poor health.

My Vietnamese doctor insists the fundamentally most important part of the body is the GI system, everything derives from it. He reckons 99% of docs know fa abt diet and nutrition, ironically, the most important part of health, he says. He also brews the most wicked rice wine at home, I verify its effectiveness, and lack of hangover.

Strong immune system might have been the wrong phrase. But if you look at what occurred in the Americas when Europeans arrived - massive rates of death from the introduced Eurasian diseases, which would have had a significant impact on the gene pool. The same would have occurred multiple times right throughout Eurasia, with being less susceptibile to viruses being a massive genetic advantage.