NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


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[Lavender Bushranger]

But he didn't do that in 2022/23 did he.

Also, whatever the rights and wrongs of his run in with the reporter he was prepared to reflect on his behaviour, discuss the issue with her and apologise. Which kind of implies he'd also reflect on 2022 cultural sensitivity standards and act with them in mind if he was in a similar situation again.

Perhaps. But the stakes are higher. So who knows?

But the Sam Mitchell one is more relevant for that example. He offered 'family planning advice' to him, was called out on it and forced to do mediation. But he didn't think he'd done anything wrong by intruding into Mitchell's private life - so he doubled down and questioned him on it again.

Maybe he still doesn't think it was wrong to do and say what he did?

 

[ferball]

Perhaps. But the stakes are higher. So who knows?

But the Sam Mitchell one is more relevant for that example. He offered 'family planning advice' to him, was called out on it and forced to do mediation. But he didn't think he'd done anything wrong by intruding into Mitchell's private life - so he doubled down and questioned him on it again.

Maybe he still doesn't think it was wrong to do and say what he did?

Maybe...

But at least he gives the impression of considering this stuff. When he joined us one of the things he said was he needed strong people around him to keep him in line and that's why he got the band back together so to speak with Ratten and Viney.

One of the other things he said when he joined was that he loved our historical rep with indigenous and multicultural issues and with the Hiddle etc etc and that he wanted to be around that sort of thing and grow/learn from it.

All of that is at odds with the narrative being pushed in this thread.

 

[ferball]

Strong immune system might have been the wrong phrase. But if you look at what occurred in the Americas when Europeans arrived - massive rates of death from the introduced Eurasian diseases, which would have had a significant impact on the gene pool. The same would have occurred multiple times right throughout Eurasia, with being less susceptibile to viruses being a massive genetic advantage.

That happened in Australia as well. There is an argument that the British deliberately infected people here with smallpox to depopulate the land but the evidence for it is sketchy.

(We're seeing that process happen with covid right now too. To a lesser extent.)

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That happened in Australia as well. There is an argument that the British deliberately infected people here with smallpox to depopulate the land but the evidence for it is sketchy.

(We're seeing that process happen with covid right now too. To a lesser extent.)

All the evidence is really sketchy, they long tried to figure out the spread of smallpox in the Australian colony ( since the colony was originally thought to be free of it ). They never had enough evidence to determine if it was smallpox or chicken pox.
The deliberate infection theory is relatively new, and while its possible there is really no evidence one way or another.

 

[faible]

"At every turn" - give me a list of his crimes then.

I haven't been on this thread for ages cos frankly its a joke.

His alleged actions are detailed in the leaked report, and the ABC article. No one has said they're criminal offences.

It's only a joke because (some) North supporters are spending day after day trying to downplay the seriousness of the accusations, and any additional questionable behaviour Clarkson engages in.

But it's ok, because he might be a great coach who improves the football club.

Yeah well I have some experience with racism and with indigenous communities, and I can see how that situation was interpreted by some people one way and other people another way, cos I've seen that s**t happen before.

So I'm waiting for more information before I accept that's the true account of events.

He's been accused of what amounts to race based eugenics. If he's shown to have done that he's gone and has no future in the industry. Everything less than that is probably open to mediation tho, which would probably be why that's the prefered outcome of the families involved in the AFL investigation.

But its a very serious accusation and so he needs a fair hearing.

Clarkson spent a year becoming a better coach on Hawthorn's dime cos they ****ed him over with a contract. He's now the subject of a pile of s**t after a report that was written by someone facing charges for defrauding an indigenous organisation and whose supposedly confidential report was leaked in spectacular fashion just after (not before) he signed a coaching contract and during the most important week in footy.

They are very serious accusations at their worst, could easily be beaten up or 100% accurate, but the circumstances surrounding the report and its release are certainly dodgy. And the charges Egan is facing don't help its credibility.

Which is unfortunate for the people he interviewed. I'd be really pissed off in their position after all this carry on.

You realise the ABC article wasn't based on the report right? It was based on interviews with people. Some of whom were also interviewed for the report.

What Egan has been accused of might not have any relevance whatsoever to the allegations in the report if those allegations come directly from interviews with past players and their families.

But of course, some North supporters again are trying every avenue to downplay it.

Funny how many people loved to roll out the 'if it were my club...' line every time some other club engages in questionable behaviour, then suddenly not is really is their club, they're liars.

For a guy who keeps telling us you've had a lot of experiences in / with the Indigenous community, there's a distinct lack of concern for just how bad the accusations here are. You're more upset with posters having a go at Clarkson than you are with Clarkson, you're more upset with Egan than you are with Clarkson, you're more upset with Lyon and Buckley than you are Clarkson. I'm pretty confident that were he not North's coach you'd be calling for his head.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Imagine if Hardwick said ,' You're time will come' to a female journalist.
Clarkson gets away with anything he wants, it's a joke.

 

[the big lebowski]

Imagine if Hardwick said ,' You're time will come' to a female journalist.
Clarkson gets away with anything he wants, it's a joke.

Imagine if Hardwick used his position of power to start a relationship with a young, hotter female club employee and then dumped mrs Hardwick…..

Oh wait

 

[FlyHigh18]

Imagine if Hardwick said ,' You're time will come' to a female journalist.
Clarkson gets away with anything he wants, it's a joke.

"get's away with it" - ya'll still be acting like someone died
what else did you want to happen?

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Imagine if Hardwick used his position of power to start a relationship with a young, hotter female club employee and then dumped mrs Hardwick…..

Oh wait

Who cares that's personal . A bit different from what could be inferred as a death threat to a journalist.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

"get's away with it" - ya'll still be acting like someone died
what else did you want to happen?

Here we go, defending the indefensible. How would you like someone saying that to your mother or sister?

 

[domin8]

Here we go, defending the indefensible. How would you like someone saying that to your mother or sister?

Openly threatening a woman. But hey no one died so nothing to see here.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

I think there's enough reasons to sack Clarkson now. There's racism ,misogyny and aggressive behaviour.
It's a bad look for the AFL in general.
There's no way he would still be a coach if this was any other sport.

 

[blackshadow]

Who cares that's personal . A bit different from what could be inferred as a death threat to a journalist.

What death threat? It was a poorly chosen throwaway line.

Dimma crossed lines of decency in a workplace by entering into a relationship where there was a huge power imbalance and also ripped a family apart because he couldn’t keep his dick in his pants.

It’s not just personal it’s a workplace issue.

 

[blackshadow]

I think there's enough reasons to sack Clarkson now. There's racism ,misogyny and aggressive behaviour.
It's a bad look for the AFL in general.
There's no way he would still be a coach if this was any other sport.

Luckily what you think means sweet FA.

 

[perplexed]

His alleged actions are detailed in the leaked report, and the ABC article. No one has said they're criminal offences.

It's only a joke because (some) North supporters are spending day after day trying to downplay the seriousness of the accusations, and any additional questionable behaviour Clarkson engages in.

But it's ok, because he might be a great coach who improves the football club.



You realise the ABC article wasn't based on the report right? It was based on interviews with people. Some of whom were also interviewed for the report.

What Egan has been accused of might not have any relevance whatsoever to the allegations in the report if those allegations come directly from interviews with past players and their families.

But of course, some North supporters again are trying every avenue to downplay it.

Funny how many people loved to roll out the 'if it were my club...' line every time some other club engages in questionable behaviour, then suddenly not is really is their club, they're liars.

For a guy who keeps telling us you've had a lot of experiences in / with the Indigenous community, there's a distinct lack of concern for just how bad the accusations here are. You're more upset with posters having a go at Clarkson than you are with Clarkson, you're more upset with Egan than you are with Clarkson, you're more upset with Lyon and Buckley than you are Clarkson. I'm pretty confident that were he not North's coach you'd be calling for his head.

This is one of the most deranged and ill-informed posts in this thread. Well done.

You keep claiming North supporters are 'trying to downplay the seriousness of the accusations', this has never happened. We are waiting to see what the AFL investigation finds before hanging anyone whilst vipers like you bay for Clarkson's blood.

As for the bit about the ABC article not being based on Egan's report, wtf? Jackson may or may not have been leaked the report, but the whole article is about it and based on re-interviewing a few players and their partners who took part in it. He doesn't seem to have done any investigation beyond what is contained in the report.

 

[Chief]

You keep claiming North supporters are 'trying to downplay the seriousness of the accusations', this has never happened.

I think it has. "He lied to her", "he's lying", those type of comments.

 

[the big lebowski]

Who cares that's personal . A bit different from what could be inferred as a death threat to a journalist.

Ok, what about a death threat via stabbing in a crowded public restaurant? Do you get rewarded for that with a thread on bigfooty asking if you’re da best playa evaz?

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Ok, what about a death threat via stabbing in a crowded public restaurant? Do you get rewarded for that with a thread on bigfooty asking if you’re da best playa evaz?

Take that to the Dustin Martin thread and stop avoiding the issues here.

 

[the big lebowski]

Take that to the Dustin Martin thread and stop avoiding the issues here.

Or you just admit you’re a hypocrite that will ignore dusty literally threatening to stab a woman to death whilst simultaneously hanging clarko out to dry for yelling at a female jurno and her male companions in which physical violence has nothing to do with it.

Or don’t.

But just remember you are enabling someone that has apologised for a stabbing threat on a female.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Or you just admit you’re a hypocrite that will ignore dusty literally threatening to stab a woman to death whilst simultaneously hanging clarko out to dry for yelling at a female jurno and her male companions in which physical violence has nothing to do with it.

Or don’t.

But just remember you are enabling someone that has apologised for a stabbing threat on a female.

You need to stop using distracting posts to avoid the topics on this thread.
Saying 'but, but this person did it once' is not a legitimate form of defence.

 

[the big lebowski]

I will say Hardwick seems a good bloke that will defend his friends when he’s not trading in his wife for a younger model or abusing vfl players

“Alastair Clarkson’s treatment has been labelled “incredibly disheartening” and a “bit distasteful” by fellow AFL coach Damien Hardwick amid growing support for the embattled ex-Hawks mentor.”

Be more like Hardwick AP

 

[the big lebowski]

You need to stop using distracting posts to avoid the topics on this thread.
Saying 'but, but this person did it once' is not a legitimate form of defence.

Im not defending clarko, I’ll leave that to Damien Hardwick.

I’m pointing out how you’re a hypocrite

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Im not defending clarko, I’ll leave that to Damien Hardwick.

I’m pointing out how you’re a hypocrite

Clarkson has a whole raft of indiscretions going back years. Stop attacking posters and defend Clarkson with reasoned arguments.

 

[perplexed]

I thin it has. "He lied to her", "he's lying", those type of comments.

Yeah, nobody should be making those sorts of claims either.

 

[ferball]

For a guy who keeps telling us you've had a lot of experiences in / with the Indigenous community, there's a distinct lack of concern for just how bad the accusations here are. You're more upset with posters having a go at Clarkson than you are with Clarkson, you're more upset with Egan than you are with Clarkson, you're more upset with Lyon and Buckley than you are Clarkson. I'm pretty confident that were he not North's coach you'd be calling for his head.

I've said repeatedly on this thread and others where I draw the line on this situation and you're happy to ignore that. I don't consider those allegations anything more than allegations at this point, and I can see how someone who didn't intend to pressure someone else to end a relationship or end a pregnancy could come across as doing that, especially in this situation.

But for that to be as bad as you are making out there has to be intent there and if there isn't that intent then its not as bad as you are making out. We're not talking about 2023 and the standards we apply here and now, we're talking about events that happened before most people had even heard of BLM. We're talking about a club where Jeff Kennett is a major powerbroker yet the guy we're criticising recruited more blackfellas than the whole club in the previous 50 years.

And that criticism is mostly based on the opinion that he intended to pressure people into destroying their lives.

You're also making comments like "I'm more upset with this person than that" when I'm not upset at all. Just pointing out obvious contexts and parallels that seem to be ignored. I'm explaining why I don't trust alot of peoples continued crap about this.

Alot of people bang on about concern for indigenous people but a poster who is a member of the stoilen generation put up a link to a footy team in the NT to get donations. People on this thread and the North board donated money but alot more people are putting the boots in here than donated there. Cos I checked to the best of my ability. Again if more people from this thread had donated more money maybe I wouldn't be as scornful in general (btw thanks to the people who did chuck in, even if it was 10 bucks. Including you Owen if you did.)

Just for one little bit of context, my wife and I were together for nearly 20 years before we conceived our first kid. She was by then on a medication that has some known and other potential effects and risks in pregnancy. Our doctor advised us to get an abortion. I was annoyed at that at first but realised he didn't understand our situation and was recommending that on his understanding oif medicine etc, not because he didn't want us having kids.

A doctor is an authority figure too. Having been in that situation I can see that this may not be as malicious as people are making out it is. And I can see how people who weren't as self confident or narky as me and my missus are could consider that situation one where they were being pressured to have an abortion.