Heath Shaw - The Wingman

[magicpants]

Know its been called for by many to move Heath but I really would like to see MM change something (if not his gameplan!) given the recent weeks/drop off in form and inability to score.

Macafferage has to go...surely those defending him are tired of his average games, stats, impact, lack of goals etc. He needs to go back to VFL and develop his game and find a position where he can have a bigger impact.

Back to Shaw...he has had great games in defense but can also have really poor games, where his kicking can be suspect under pressure or be beaten by a man who plays him close.

His kicking on the run though is penetrating and generally accurate, he is very good overhead and one-on-one and is quick and can run and bounce which is what you need to be a great wingman.

Time for Buckley or Goldy to come in and play back and get one of our better players into the thick of it!

 

[Unknown Identity]

His kicking on the run though is penetrating and generally accurate, he is very good overhead and one-on-one and is quick and can run and bounce which is what you need to be a great wingman.


THIS

His kicking out of defence is penetrating, if we could use him delivering the ball into the forward 50, i think he could be more damaging..!

 

[Thommo 42]

whenever he delivers the ball into the 50, like O'Brien - he just bombs it to nowhere, so he's not the solution.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

No thankyou.

With Maxwell out now we need Shaw's leadership down back more than ever to help support Toovey and Reid particularly.

 

[Invigoration]

He wouldn't be any worse at it than Ben Johnson, so I'm partially for it.

My hesitance lies in the lack of small/mid defenders we have as it is. Shaw is a good checker and generally isn't shown up that often, if he moves out of defence I'm not really sure we have an ideal replacement.

Buckley is a flaky rebounder, his defensive skills are on par with Shannon Cox's. He isn't someone you'd want in a back pocket. Goldsack matches up poorly on smalls and mids as well.
Like I said in another thread, Rounds would be my ideal replacement, but it won't happen now that he has been moved forward.

 

[shawthing09]

Really traditional wingmen don't exist anymore. Flankers go up higher and you have extra mids on the ground.

Heath is often allowed to run freely as high up the ground as he'd like so I can't see it. He's not a good enough user of the ball into the foward 50 and playing higher up the ground completely takes away some of his strengths.

As invig has mentioned he is a good defender and in a situation where he is being tagged out of the game I wish we'd give him a meaningful defensive match up. Going to Green yesterday for example. That way if the opposition want to avoid Shaw they have to avoid a player they would usually use, if not Shaw is a good enough defender to do that sort of defensive job.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Yeh run the tough nut through the middle!!.. and play davis in there as well.. and play dawes up forward so we can run up the guts!! gameplan solved!

 

[StillWaiting5689]

I wouldn't mind seeing him higher up the ground, it seems he can be taken out of games by opposition coaches putting a close checking forward tag on him, this is why he has really good games and then an average game. Though as mentioned now that Maxwell is out it may not be the best time to alter the back line any more but I'd still like to see it happen.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I've said it repeatedly before, Heath Shaw would have close to the worst inside-50m retention rate at the club. Butchers it going into attack. A big no thanks for me on this one. He's got to work out a way to contribute as a backman.

 

[GoatEater88]

Would love it for my Dreamteam - but for us... Err... Not so much. For much the same reasons Royal Sampler points out.

 

[swiftdog]

He'd be fantastic on the counter-attack straight up the guts, but we don't play that way. He's of more use to us down back, the most important kick for us is out of defence, where he gets the pill already. We generally play low risk footy that doesn't require super skills after that first kick out of defence.

 

[ksardog]

Know its been called for by many to move Heath but I really would like to see MM change something (if not his gameplan!) given the recent weeks/drop off in form and inability to score.

Macafferage has to go...surely those defending him are tired of his average games, stats, impact, lack of goals etc. He needs to go back to VFL and develop his game and find a position where he can have a bigger impact.

Back to Shaw...he has had great games in defense but can also have really poor games, where his kicking can be suspect under pressure or be beaten by a man who plays him close.

His kicking on the run though is penetrating and generally accurate, he is very good overhead and one-on-one and is quick and can run and bounce which is what you need to be a great wingman.

Time for Buckley or Goldy to come in and play back and get one of our better players into the thick of it!

i agree 100%, we are not getting enough out of heath at the moment and he is one of our better players. bring goldsack in [ a close checking defender which we need at the moment ] , drop maccafer and shaw to play his role. in essence we improve our side in the process.

 

[Bay Pie]

Heath is very good as a defender. Great closing speed and agility to go with small forwards. It's his best position. He just doesn't seem to have the attributes to make a good midfielder/winger other then his speed.

As has been pointed out his disposal into the f50 or even across HF is very ordinary. He generally kicks to space and players have their best chance to run onto a loose ball rather then have to mark one of his kicks as they are raraely pin point passes.

If we want to move someone to the wing, I'd move Leon before any other player.

 

[The Panther]

Johnson, as poor as he is by foot, exposed 1 thing. We didn't have a line breaker. He is as badly as it seems, a crucial part of our side.

Heath has that ability up the field. It means 1 player has to take his spot in the backline, the player I feel is best suited for this is Jarrod Blight.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Yep, agree that Blight is the longer term answer, although in the shorter term I think they'll try Simon Buckley in the same role. Not sure Buckley has the poise that Johnson has, his decision making concerns me. Even Shannon Cox was better at working his way up the ground and spotting up a target, too bad he couldn't get the off-field aspects together.

 

[middy boy]

Most people seem to pigeon hole blight as a back man. i know he's very good at that , but having watched a fair bit of him at Swan Districts and a few games in the VFL , i think he really is a utility player better suited as an outside Mid that could give allot of drive into the 50. We all know he can kick a mile very accurately on both feet, is very fast and has a terrific grab. So if he gets anywhere down the forward 50 line you can pencil it in as a goal. As far as not being ready, well, Gavin Brown reckoned he was last year and a couple of emergencies last year acknowledges that. he has been injured though.
Maybe plonk him in the midfield rotation and push Beams into Davis position & Bring Rounds in for Medhurst and Dawes in for Fraser.
bout time we showed some confidence in our younger group. look what its done for Melbourne !

 

[Invigoration]

Was Blighty being named as an emergency last year? I don't recall that, I've got a shit memory though.

And yeah, while I'd like to see him included, his form doesn't really warrant it at the moment. He needs to start consistently standing out in the VFL and at the moment he is quite sporadic in that his good games are usually followed up by 1 or 2 quieter ones.

Certainly wouldn't be throwing him into the midfield rotation at AFL level. It's no secret that I'd have no qualms with either him or Buckley coming in as a replacement for Johnno though.

He is still behind a fair few though I'd say, Goldsack, Johnson and Buckley would all come in before Blight if a spot opened up in the back half.

 

[Quicky]

We all know he can kick a mile very accurately on both feet, is very fast and has a terrific grab. So if he gets anywhere down the forward 50 line you can pencil it in as a goal. As far as not being ready, well, Gavin Brown reckoned he was last year and a couple of emergencies last year acknowledges that.

That would be appealing considering some of our games this year. But Invigs right to push for selection he needs form in the twos which he doesn't have yet. But thats not much of a surprise as he's had an injury interupted year. I think your right though and see a midfield role for him.

Was Blighty being named as an emergency last year? I don't recall that, I've got a shit memory though.

Last game of the year IIRC and maybe a few others as well.

 

[The Panther]

And yeah, while I'd like to see him included, his form doesn't really warrant it at the moment.

I don't think Blight is the type that will warrant inclusion by "beating the house down" with sustained form in the 2's.

The higher level in the AFL will suit him, just as much as the VFL doesn't really suit him. The players that tend to dominate in the VFL usually don't become good AFL footballers (i.e. Stanley, Cook) & you just have to look at Dick in the space of 3 days. Did little in the VFL but rising to a higher level, brought the best out in him. Blight needs a taste soon & according to opposition coaches/recruiters, he is rated very highly.

 

[The Panther]

Butchers it going into attack.

There was 1 example in the last that backed that up. I think it was Sidebottom who was free, Shaw got the ball, blazed away to a contest with a poor kick.

He has elite potential but his decision making is holding him back. He makes dumb mistakes consistently, either he runs too far & gets done for holding the ball, blazes away & my pet hate, puts his hands into the back of his opponent.

 

[middy boy]

"I don't think Blight is the type that will warrant inclusion by "beating the house down" with sustained form in the 2's."

have to agree with that comment.

I have only seen 3 live VFL performances this year and managed to catch 1 on the tv. I have to say i reckon Round's and Blight seem to be getting frozen out by the likes of Locker, Dawes, O'Bree & Barham whenever they get the ball and they will not pass it to them even if they are in a better position. They seem to be more fussed with there own stats at the expense of the Younger guns. However those 2 in particular and Thomas seem to play the "Team" game and pass off all the time. Did anyone else notice that the day Dawes bagged a heap, at least 2 of them were as a result of long raking kicks in from blight and 1 handball from Rounds ( i Think it was him ). No fuss made about them though.

I think Shaw is Just too good a back man to move up the ground. sure he has an occasional hick up but overall HBF suits his style. Blight is a better wing option, Taller, faster, longer more accurate kick. But like a few comments above, maybe just a couple more games in the 2's. And lets face it Rounds could do no worse than Medhurst at the moment

 

[magicpants]

There was 1 example in the last that backed that up. I think it was Sidebottom who was free, Shaw got the ball, blazed away to a contest with a poor kick.

He has elite potential but his decision making is holding him back. He makes dumb mistakes consistently, either he runs too far & gets done for holding the ball, blazes away & my pet hate, puts his hands into the back of his opponent.

Hardly things you would want him doing in the D50 I wouldve thought! Make these mistakes there and it costs goals, up the ground far less so but I think his kicking into F50 is not as bad as some might think - we haven't seen enough to get a great guide though.

If my memory serves me correctly though I remember last year v Port at the MCG he was on fire running the ball and passing into the F50 and doing it well.

 

[Invigoration]

"I don't think Blight is the type that will warrant inclusion by "beating the house down" with sustained form in the 2's."

have to agree with that comment.

I have only seen 3 live VFL performances this year and managed to catch 1 on the tv. I have to say i reckon Round's and Blight seem to be getting frozen out by the likes of Locker, Dawes, O'Bree & Barham whenever they get the ball and they will not pass it to them even if they are in a better position. They seem to be more fussed with there own stats at the expense of the Younger guns. However those 2 in particular and Thomas seem to play the "Team" game and pass off all the time. Did anyone else notice that the day Dawes bagged a heap, at least 2 of them were as a result of long raking kicks in from blight and 1 handball from Rounds ( i Think it was him ). No fuss made about them though.

I think Shaw is Just too good a back man to move up the ground. sure he has an occasional hick up but overall HBF suits his style. Blight is a better wing option, Taller, faster, longer more accurate kick. But like a few comments above, maybe just a couple more games in the 2's. And lets face it Rounds could do no worse than Medhurst at the moment

That's a massive cop out and it really isn't true at all. You're reconstructing the facts pretty severely to cater to the argument you are making - that is that Blight + Rounds (in particular Blight though who you obviously have some connection to) = good, old VFL hands = bad.

O'Bree and Lockyer have both played for this club for over 10 years, I hardly think they are going to start deliberately damaging young player's games in attempts to benefit themselves and their own careers. That's ludicrous.

And Dawes and Barham are two young blokes in virtually the same position as Blight and Rounds. They are all doing their best to push their claim for games in the ones, I highly doubt the ideal way of going about that and impressing the coaches is by ignoring the best option and trying to make yourself look good.

The whole reason we introduced our stand alone VFL side was so these boys could all play and develop together. They are competing for spots no doubt, but if anyone was actually visibly going out of their way to put themselves ahead at the expense of someone else (as you claim), I'm pretty sure they'd be pulled in to line pretty quick smart.

Anyway, this discussion is off topic and I don't wanna start an argument, but like I said at the start it's a massive cop out to try and say Blight and Rounds aren't doing enough at VFL level because those blokes you mentioned are "freezing them out". It just isn't true.

 

[middy boy]

That's a massive cop out and it really isn't true at all. You're reconstructing the facts pretty severely to cater to the argument you are making - that is that Blight + Rounds (in particular Blight though who you obviously have some connection to) = good, old VFL hands = bad.]

Sorry about that . I was'nt bagging the older blokes. and i appreciate what they have done for the club. what i probably meant that was they are certainly not making it easy for the younger one's and they are making them earn their stripe's, which is understandable and in the long run the younger blokes will be better for it.
Yes i play basketball with blights older brother and was part of the same junior footy club, so i guess i am seeing things through rose coloured glasses. just following his progress.

 

[bucksisbest]

Blight will eventually play a key part in Collingwood's team. The body is not there yet and he loses his feet too often. He also seems to get injured quite a bit.