NO TROLLS Homophobia in the AFL - 4 Corners

[Elmer_Hauser]

Remember that *head that Bevo went mad at, in his speech he was like 'I'm not a black, I'm not a gay'...

But the media didn't care. It only cared about the 'liquor license' remarks. The lesbian slander.

Where was the equality for gay men having derogatory comments about them called out?

There is undeniably a homophobic/Bogan bloke culture in the AFL/footy media industry sadly which i think is part of the problem Four Corners is talking about

 

[Lia]

I doubt that many people would care and I imagine that the over the top media attention from the ABC, Guardian and such like could be just as off putting as any potential homophobia they may receive from fans.

 

[ChristianBoy]

But there's not even rumours about any specific player being gay. If a player had told anyone, there'd be rumours floating around about it.

Maybe because they have the trust of their mates. Why the **** does everyone feel the need to announce their sexual preference.

 

[edgie]

There is undeniably a homophobic/Bogan bloke culture in the AFL/footy media industry sadly which i think is part of the problem Four Corners is talking about

Absolutely. But it needs to go deeper than people thinking they are gonna be called slurs. Everything else about the culture designed to alienate the homosexual man. That needs light shed on it.

That organisation phantom13 mentioned sounds like a good start.

 

[phantom13]

I'm not advocating for doing nothing. I want the culture to change. I am just saying, that when I have witnessed that scenario, things have changed. IE, people have the capacity for change. Eventually that flows through to the next generation, where the order of 'cart' and 'horse' has corrected itself.

It looks alot like youre saying "its fixing itself and nothing else needs to happen". Is that not what youre saying?

I mean if you're in to rumours like a high school clique. I am aware of none.

Not really but i played footy, my mates and i talk about footy, i post on a footy website. There not exactly hidden.

I doubt that many people would care and I imagine that the over the top media attention from the ABC, Guardian and such like could be just as off putting as any potential homophobia they may receive from fans.

Yeh again, plenty of young gay men would care. Thats really the crux of why i think the first player to come out is "important". If we lived in a world where it really didnt matter that would be great, but we dont.

 

[Gralin]

you can disagree all you want Freshwater but the reality is that our terms of reference are just that

terms of reference constructed to make sense of things

statistically certain behaviours are more commonly observed in men than women, and vice versa and thus in the past have been attributed to masculine or feminine

but beyond that, what is considered one or the other is also something that is socially conditioned and promoted/discouraged

like how women were seen as the home makers and thus discouraged from working, discouraged from playing sport because of "risks to fertility"

boys told not to play with dolls because "men don't do that" etc

in a hetero normative society where the "defaults" are set a certain way, by being gay you are already not conforming, so if you're going to considered an outsider why bother worrying about other norms that you don't feel the need to maintain?

I never liked contact sports, I preferred basketball or cricket to footy or soccer but I also mostly played them at school because thats what all my friends were doing

so if I wanted to hang around with my mates at lunch time I had to do what they were doing

people do stuff to belong as well as because they want to

 

[branedotorg]

Remeber BT homophobic abuse of Harry Taylor’s wave to his kids …and you wonder why there would be a hesitation on the players part in coming out publically the media dinosaurs like BT and Co would be saying ignorant s**t constantly with the extra media scrutiny on the player.

Don’t blame them one bit after that incident

even worse, can you imagine BT trying to be supportive? it would be both cringeworthy and deeply offensive, like when he tries to talk about AFLW

 

[Malifice]

It is a curiosity why there has never been an openly gay player in the AFL.

No, it's not a curiosity why. A historic culture of homophobia (getting better, but still present) and not wanting the pressure of being the first.

Just look at the shit Aboriginal players cop on a weekly basis. Those same cohort of boofhead knobs will no doubt come after any openly Gay player.

There are gay players in the AFL at present, and they've always been there.

All we can do is keep trying to make things better, and hopefully one day it will be.

 

[Freshwater]

you can disagree all you want Freshwater but the reality is that our terms of reference are just that

terms of reference constructed to make sense of things

statistically certain behaviours are more commonly observed in men than women, and vice versa and thus in the past have been attributed to masculine or feminine

but beyond that, what is considered one or the other is also something that is socially conditioned and promoted/discouraged

like how women were seen as the home makers and thus discouraged from working, discouraged from playing sport because of "risks to fertility"

boys told not to play with dolls because "men don't do that" etc

in a hetero normative society where the "defaults" are set a certain way, by being gay you are already not conforming, so if you're going to considered an outsider why bother worrying about other norms that you don't feel the need to maintain?

I never liked contact sports, I preferred basketball or cricket to footy or soccer but I also mostly played them at school because thats what all my friends were doing

so if I wanted to hang around with my mates at lunch time I had to do what they were doing

people do stuff to belong as well as because they want to

You said it was all just a social construct. I agree there is definitely some of that but definitely not all. I have two kids and have observed them. My wife is a kinda teacher and has been for a very long while and sees that boys and girls are generally wired differently. There is alway cross over but mature is stronger than nurture generally, so had to disagree when you said ‘all’. Definitely not a ‘trolly’ disagree.

 

[Bipolar Bear]

Why do people think that gay people have to come out? Why is anyone's sexuality the business of anyone except for their own, and their sexual partner? I don't get this logic.

Edit: I should have said that if they want to come out, then obviously that's up to them. It's the expectation that they should come out that is a joke.

 

[Gough]

Why do people think that gay people have to come out? Why is anyone's sexuality the business of anyone except for their own, and their sexual partner? I don't get this logic.

We made people's sexuality the entire country's business not that long ago with that stupid plebiscite.

 

[Reximilian]

This article really feels it was written about how footy was five or ten years ago and looks like another stick for the Sydney ABC media to whack the AFL. There are other professional sports where there are no openly out male athletes, cycling and F1 for example. Ideally this wouldn’t be an issue but the media beat up around being the first is probably the strongest barrier at the moment given the general consensus that there are already many gay/bi players accepted by their teammates . A lot of men still may not want to publicly sexuality in their 20s anyway. They may have more important issues during the season like pushing for selection and getting to their training or recovery goals, at least early in their career. Maybe a low key club press conference for a team out of finals or in preseason would be the best way to for someone to come out.

 

[Engimal v3]

But there's not even rumours about any specific player being gay. If a player had told anyone, there'd be rumours floating around about it.

There's been rumours about plenty of players. And, let's be honest, we know there's some players that are at least bisexual - unless women have taken a liking to seeing men's bungholes

 

[Gralin]

You said it was all just a social construct. I agree there is definitely some of that but definitely not all. I have two kids and have observed them. My wife is a kinda teacher and has been for a very long while and sees that boys and girls are generally wired differently. There is alway cross over but mature is stronger than nurture generally, so had to disagree when you said ‘all’. Definitely not a ‘trolly’ disagree.

Just because it's a social construct doesn't mean there is no truth to it, but it's not an absolute truth

 

[phantom13]

Why do people think that gay people have to come out? Why is anyone's sexuality the business of anyone except for their own, and their sexual partner? I don't get this logic.

Wrong POV on it.

Nobody is saying they have to, the question is being asked do they feel comfortable too.

Do they feel that being open about their sexuality (the way heterosexuals are) will not impact on their livelihood, their personal lives, their opportunities etc etc.

They dont have to, but they should feel 100% comfortable that they can be out.

 

[faible]

Wrong POV on it.

Nobody is saying they have to, the question is being asked do they feel comfortable too.

Do they feel that being open about their sexuality (the way heterosexuals are) will not impact on their livelihood, their personal lives, their opportunities etc etc.

They dont have to, but they should feel 100% comfortable that they can be out.

I wouldn't feel comfortable having the media focus their entire attention on my dating life irrespective of sexuality.

The first player to come out will become the defacto representative of gay players in the AFL, who'd want that pressure?

I doubt it's a matter of team-mates not knowing, it's the entire media circus and almost certain extra attention from football spectators that would come with it being public-public.

 

[phantom13]

This article really feels it was written about how footy was five or ten years ago and looks like another stick for the Sydney ABC media to whack the AFL. There are other professional sports where there are no openly out male athletes, cycling and F1 for example. Ideally this wouldn’t be an issue but the media beat up around being the first is probably the strongest barrier at the moment given the general consensus that there are already many gay/bi players accepted by their teammates . A lot of men still may not want to publicly sexuality in their 20s anyway. They may have more important issues during the season like pushing for selection and getting to their training or recovery goals, at least early in their career. Maybe a low key club press conference for a team out of finals or in preseason would be the best way to for someone to come out.

Cycling and F1 arent overseen by an Australian administrator so they dont really fall under the remit of the ABC nor do they concern the Australian public as much.

No doubt there has been progress in the general gay rights and equality movement in the last 5-10 years but are the AFL as a large corporate citizen doing their part? Is their workplace doing anything beyond the standard societal stuff? Could they be doing more?

They pretty reasonable questions.

 

[Freshwater]

Just because it's a social construct doesn't mean there is no truth to it, but it's not an absolute truth

And if you notice in my post I’m worried for that player that gets outed, because I think someone will get outed before the come out of their own violation, will get more focus if he is a ‘soft’ player. He might try to over compensate??

 

[Cmarsh]

Mate

Only one club attended a pre-season camp that aboriginal players were uncomfortable with, and tried to silence them!

Only one club had a captain engage in directly racist behaviour, and tried to cover it up!

Pretty sure the Crows had addressed their issues though. Rankine was obviously convinced they had so therefore he made the decision to go there.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

A few clubs in the league refused to endorse a yes vote for same sex marriage after all.

Some clubs issued statements saying that we at insert name of relevant club here, value and respect all people no matter their background, but we also respect an individuals choice to make their own decisions, so we will not be endorsing a yes vote in the upcoming referendum.

Other clubs just stayed silent on the issue. We've come a long way as a society with regards to this issue, but we still have a long way to go imo.

Homophobia is also more of an issue for males than females as well in my experience. Males are on the receiving end of homophobic violence more often than females imo.

 

[edgie]

It looks alot like youre saying "its fixing itself and nothing else needs to happen". Is that not what youre saying?

Nope, it's just a different way of change happening, to the usual 'the environment must be perfectly safe first!'. It's another way, where, don't wait for the envinoment to be safe, because it may fix itself. Have faith that when most people are put in an uncomfortable situation, they will do the right thing.

Just because it MIGHT fix itself though, in some places, doesn't mean that we stop doing our best to fix it everywhere else across the board.

 

[phantom13]

I wouldn't feel comfortable having the media focus their entire attention on my dating life irrespective of sexuality.

The first player to come out will become the defacto representative of gay players in the AFL, who'd want that pressure?

I doubt it's a matter of team-mates not knowing, it's the entire media circus and almost certain extra attention from football spectators that would come with it being public-public.

So the point of the report and investgation is to see if the AFL is doing everything it can to allow players to feel safe in coming out (or even really just expressing themselves) seems a worthwhile query to raise and investigation to have based on what youre saying doesnt it?

Nope, it's just a different way of change happening, to the usual 'the environment must be perfectly safe first!'. It's another way, where, don't wait for the envinoment to be safe, because it may fix itself. Have faith that when most people are put in an uncomfortable situation, they will do the right thing.

Just because it MIGHT fix itself though, in some places, doesn't mean that we stop doing our best to fix it everywhere else across the board.

Yeh, i dont really get what youre saying here? Out a player cause forcing progress is best? Like the point is are the AFL endeavoring to support their players and educate at grass roots all the way through to allow players to be who they are?

 

[faible]

So the point of the report and investgation is to see if the AFL is doing everything it can to allow players to feel safe in coming out (or even really just expressing themselves) seems a worthwhile query to raise and investigation to have based on what youre saying doesnt it?

The AFL doesn't control the media landscape though, even if the items within the control of the AFL were 100% perfect, the whole media cycle would still exist.

How quickly will the articles come flying out about 'such and such is the FIRST openly gay player in the AFL' followed by the Daily Mail reporting that 'such and such was seen on a STEAMY date with <insert other male> here'. The AFL can't control that.

You'd have to be very, very willing to be the face of the AFL LGBT community to be the first one to come out. I wouldn't want that kind of pressure heaped on me in a league that already heaps a lot of public pressure on their players.

 

[phantom13]

The AFL doesn't control the media landscape though, even if the items within the control of the AFL were 100% perfect, the whole media cycle would still exist.

How quickly will the articles come flying out about 'such and such is the FIRST openly gay player in the AFL' followed by the Daily Mail reporting that 'such and such was seen on a STEAMY date with <insert other male> here'. The AFL can't control that.

You'd have to be very, very willing to be the face of the AFL LGBT community to be the first one to come out. I wouldn't want that kind of pressure heaped on me in a league that already heaps a lot of public pressure on their players.

Sure, i dont disagree but that shouldnt preclude ensuring the AFL is doing their part.

"Oh all these other things will make it hard so dont worry about doing anything, its all too hard" thats a poor way to do business.

 

[demondavey]

The football codes are masculine type sports. That is why there is a much higher percentage of lesbians in all women’s football codes. For this reason there would be less gay males in the football codes, but definitely not none. But if a male were to come out, his masculinity would be questioned every time he didn’t commit to contest in the ‘masculine’ way. It wouldn’t be very helpful to his career.

Unbelievably poor comment