Mega Thread Hot Topic - Drugs and AFL

[Steve Dore]

Jobe gets chance to speak to AFL about Brownlow

"JOBE Watson will be given the chance to show the AFL Commission why he deserves to keep his 2012 Brownlow Medal."

What an embarrassing circus this has become.

 

[Eric Blair]

Essendon Swiss Court decision: Judgment reveals appeal success not even 'entertained'
.....
The judgment from the Swiss Federal Tribunal was initially delivered in German but has since been translated into English by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS). The official translation reads: "In the arbitration procedure between 34 current or former players of Essendon FC (Australian Football) and the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), ................ "The SFT determined that since the players did not formally challenge the jurisdiction of CAS during the arbitration procedure and accepted the application of the CAS Rules (including the rule providing for a de novo hearing (i.e. for a procedure allowing the CAS to conduct a full review of the case), they had lost their right to challenge the CAS jurisdiction in appeal. "The SFT added that, even if the jurisdiction of CAS had been properly challenged by the players, CAS jurisdiction in this matter would have been confirmed and the appeal would have been dismissed. "As a consequence, the Arbitral Award rendered in this matter and the sanctions imposed on the players remain in force."

Fairfax Media has been told it is exceptional that the Swiss Federal Tribunal saw fit to expand on its written judgment to explain that – in its view – the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport was not "properly challenged" in the case mounted for the players. The line in the final judgment - "…even if the jurisdiction of CAS had been properly challenged by the players, CAS jurisdiction in this matter would have been confirmed and the appeal would have been dismissed" – only underlined how far off the case mounted on behalf of the AFL players was from success.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ess-not-even-entertained-20161011-gs09lm.html

LOL, just LOL that is the judicial equivalent of a knock out punch, why even bother going to the Euro Court of human rights.

Genuinely shows just how amateur and borderline corrupt the AFL is when it is stacked up against other sports. And to think, somehow these duds are sitting on hundreds of milions of dollars.

 

[xflamedancer]

Surely if Jab was such a best and FAIR player he would do the right thing and hand it back, the fact that he hasn't just indicates to me that he wasn't worthy of the Charlie in the first place.

 

[PatientMental]

AFL dealing with Essendon.

The AFL dealing with Jobe.

 

[TeeKray]

Surely if Jab was such a best and FAIR player he would do the right thing and hand it back, the fact that he hasn't just indicates to me that he wasn't worthy of the Charlie in the first place.

It's not Jobe's responsibility to hand it back. He doesn't believe he is a drug cheat and a decision from three people in a Swiss based arbitration court isn't going to change that. The AFL awarded him the medal and it is their clear responsibility to take it back if they determine that the rules have been breached.

 

[sobrave]

It's not Jobe's responsibility to hand it back. He doesn't believe he is a drug cheat and a decision from three people in a Swiss based arbitration court isn't going to change that. The AFL awarded him the medal and it is their clear responsibility to take it back if they determine that the rules have been breached.

Actually the afl is signed up with wada who are the head authority for doping. As a player in the afl, jab needs to accept their decision. He's being a flog. Its not just 3 random blokes in switzerland. It doesnt matter what the corrupt afl tribunal said, wada and the CAS have the final say.

Jab absolutely played above his usual plodding level in 2012. But of course being on the juice had nothing to do with that, according to him. Pathetic. Hope he gets booed mercilessly every round

 

[Forzaport]

I wonder if Jobe will play at all if he's stripped of his Brownlow?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[proman_x]

Essendon Swiss Court decision: Judgment reveals appeal success not even 'entertained'
.....
The judgment from the Swiss Federal Tribunal was initially delivered in German but has since been translated into English by the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS). The official translation reads: "In the arbitration procedure between 34 current or former players of Essendon FC (Australian Football) and the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), ................ "The SFT determined that since the players did not formally challenge the jurisdiction of CAS during the arbitration procedure and accepted the application of the CAS Rules (including the rule providing for a de novo hearing (i.e. for a procedure allowing the CAS to conduct a full review of the case), they had lost their right to challenge the CAS jurisdiction in appeal. "The SFT added that, even if the jurisdiction of CAS had been properly challenged by the players, CAS jurisdiction in this matter would have been confirmed and the appeal would have been dismissed. "As a consequence, the Arbitral Award rendered in this matter and the sanctions imposed on the players remain in force."

Fairfax Media has been told it is exceptional that the Swiss Federal Tribunal saw fit to expand on its written judgment to explain that – in its view – the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport was not "properly challenged" in the case mounted for the players. The line in the final judgment - "…even if the jurisdiction of CAS had been properly challenged by the players, CAS jurisdiction in this matter would have been confirmed and the appeal would have been dismissed" – only underlined how far off the case mounted on behalf of the AFL players was from success.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ess-not-even-entertained-20161011-gs09lm.html

Surely you would have to question some very shonky advice by the legal department in most of this sordid affair. I would love to know how much these leaches have sucked out of all this over the last 3 or so years.

 

[Steve Dore]

WADA and CAS disagree, but if you don't agree with the umpires decision you can just ignore it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Back to the Theraputic Use Exemptions - TUE's - leaked by Fancy Bears over the last month or so, I watched the Brad Wiggins story about his TUE use on 7.30 last night which mainly was an interview with David Walsh from the Sunday Times and just kept thinking of Vader from the Cycling Forum call of Team Sky, UK Postal, starting 4 or 5 years ago. You can watch the full story and read the full transcript at the following link but here is a fair chunk of it.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2016/s4557032.htm

HAYDEN COOPER, PRESENTER: The first British cyclist to win the Tour de France has been under serious scrutiny in recent weeks, after a Russian hacking operation exposed some of his medical records. Sir Bradley Wiggins won the tour in 2012, but the hack revealed to the world that he'd received permission to use a powerful corticosteroid in the lead-up to the famous race. In fact, he'd had the injection three times in three different years - all before his biggest events of the calendar. The treatment, which was approved by the authorities, was for a pollen allergy. Wiggins says he acted within the rules and was not seeking an unfair advantage. In a moment we'll speak to the chief sports writer at the UK's Sunday Times, David Walsh. But, first, let's recap:
....
HAYDEN COOPER: Team Sky is a formidable force in world cycling, winning four of the past five editions of the Tour de France, including in 2012 when Bradley Wiggins became the first British rider to win the gruelling race......But the recent hack by the Russian group known as Fancy Bears raises serious questions for Wiggins and his team. The hackers infiltrated computers at the World Anti-Doping Agency and released medical details of dozens of athletes. They included three exemptions granted to Bradley Wiggins, allowing the use of a corticosteroid to treat a pollen allergy. The injection was administered in the lead-up to both the 2011 and 2012 Tour de France, as well as the 2013 Tour of Italy. Although it was legal, Wiggins had previously denied ever receiving an injection in his cycling career, apart from vaccinations. He maintains that he's done nothing wrong.
....

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2016/s4557032.htm

HAYDEN COOPER: David Walsh is known as the journalist who brought down Lance Armstrong after years of relentless pursuit of the cyclist's drug-taking ways. In 2013 he wrote a book called 'Inside Team Sky'.He's heading to Australia for the Sports Writers Festival and he joins me now, live from London.

HAYDEN COOPER: Well, you said after this story broke that this looks bad for Bradley Wiggins. Do you still hold that view?
DAVID WALSH: Well, I do: and more than that, I would have firmed up my view on this, I think, because we've learned more. And the more we've learned, the worse it looks.At the very least, Bradley Wiggins now has an asterisk after his Tour de France victory and the asterisk says: received a serious steroid four days before the race. Forty milligram injection of triamcinolone for reasons that are barely credible, because Bradley Wiggins was 100 per cent healthy, according to his own autobiography, in the lead-up to that Tour de France. He said he'd barely missed a day's training. He'd won all his preparation races. And he ends up getting the most lethal or the most potent corticosteroid you could get if you were an asthma sufferer. And basically, it stinks.

HAYDEN COOPER: Do you have any doubts that that injection would have given him an unfair advantage?
DAVID WALSH: Well, I mean, I have never taken triamcinolone. So I am speaking from the testimony. I am basing my view on the testimony of multiple riders, cyclists who have used this drug because, known by its brand name Kenacort, this is a drug that cyclists have been abusing for decades. And they all say it's a powerful performance enhancer.

The problem that Team Sky have got with this is not only the act itself, which is at the very least highly questionable, but they're the team that set themselves up as whiter than white. They're the team that set themselves up as totally transparent. They have been anything but transparent in their response to this. They have basically refused to go into any detail about how this was authorised and they're basically sticking to the line: it was approved by the authorities and therefore it was technically legal. And for lots of people that's not good enough, because ethics still matter in sport. Morals still matter. And the proof that this is wrong: you know, it can really be kind of drawn from a statement put out by a three-time winner of the Tour de France, Chris Froome, who happens to be Team Sky's team leader. He put out a statement that basically said, "Ethics and morals are hugely important and the UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) need to tighten up on TUE (therapeutic use exception) abuse." He put this statement out following the disclosure of Bradley Wiggins' TUEs. In other words: Chris Froome has been pretty appalled by this. And he's Team Sky's leader.

The discussion then turns to the specifics of TUE's and who at Sky knew what. He reckons 4 of 60 people knew, he reckons some of the others would have been against the use of triamcinolone by Wiggins. But he reckons Froome is clean was clean in 2013 when he spent 13 weeks with him.

HAYDEN COOPER: And those TUEs, therapeutic use exemptions which allow cyclists to use these drugs in some cases: are they in widespread use in the peloton? And is this something that we as the sporting public should have a right to know?

DAVID WALSH: Yes. I believe we should have a right to know now. And I think: you know, if Bradley Wiggins' teammates in 2012 had known that Bradley had got a very potent TUE just before the race, even his teammates would have had serious reservations about it. So you can imagine how his rivals would have reacted. I know that Chris Froome's view is that, if one of his rivals in last year's Tour de France had got this TUE three days before the race, he wouldn't have been at all pleased. So what Team Sky did in my view was: while it may have been technically legal, it was wholly wrong and there was no justification for it. Because if Bradley Wiggins had, you know, pollen allergies - we know he's asthmatic, but lots of riders in the peloton are asthmatic and don't get injections of this drug three days before the race. If he was, there were many alternative medications that he could have used: you know, less potent in terms of performance enhancement. And if Sky felt it was OK, why was it such a secretive thing? I know many high-up people in that team who had no idea of what was happening.

HAYDEN COOPER:
Now, as you say, Team Sky was set up as a clean cycling team. That was their virtue and they promoted that quite vigorously. They let you in to travel with them in 2013. You said at the time, actually, that they were clean and also incredibly open. Do you still feel the same way today? I mean, clearly your view has changed?

DAVID WALSH: Yes, it has changed. I mean, in 2013, what I said was: I believed that Chris Froome had won the Tour de France clean because I had been in the team for 13 weeks, leading up to that. I saw him in training. I saw him in his prep races and I had lots of interaction with people. I still believe Froome is a clean winner of the Tour de France. But if you look at this from another way: if Dave Brailsford, when he was offering me the opportunity to come and live inside the team: if he said, "By the way, I should tell you about Bradley's therapeutic use exemption injection that we gave him before last year's tour," I wouldn't have gone inside the team. Because I would have said, "Dave, we've got to investigate that. That to me looks, at the very least, wholly inappropriate, unethical, immoral. So sorry, I don't want your invite because we need an investigation here."

So in a way, I went in there without full knowledge. You can say, "But David, why didn't you find out? You were inside the team for 13 weeks." Well, Chris Froome didn't know about this TUE. Tim Kerrison, the Australian who many people regard as perhaps the key figure - he's the head of performance in Team Sky - he didn't know about this TUE. Rod Ellingworth, the kind of next in charge, didn't know about it. Dave Brailsford knew. Bradley Wiggins knew. The doctor who gave the injection knew. And the Australian head coach at the time, Shane Sutton, knew. Four people in a team of about 60 people knew about this. There were three other doctors in the team and they did not know. And my information is that, if they had been consulted, the other three doctors: they all would have been firmly against.

 

[OneGreatClub]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-antidoping-charges-loom-20161024-gs9k94.html
This just won’t go away for Lachie Whitfield. ASADA saying it could be up to a 4 year suspension if proven.

 

[Steve Dore]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-antidoping-charges-loom-20161024-gs9k94.html
This just won’t go away for Lachie Whitfield. ASADA saying it could be up to a 4 year suspension if proven.

ASADA says Giant should be charged

"As of Monday night the AFL was still considering the evidence presented to it by its integrity unit and receiving legal advice on how it proceeds."

So the AFL signs up to WADA, as required by the Australian government in order for sports to receive federal funding, but then continually wimps out on the enforcement as it may hurt their bottom line.

 

[elsler]

ASADA says Giant should be charged

"As of Monday night the AFL was still considering the evidence presented to it by its integrity unit and receiving legal advice on how it proceeds."

So the AFL signs up to WADA, as required by the Australian government in order for sports to receive federal funding, but then continually wimps out on the enforcement as it may hurt their bottom line.

Yep they will take the cash but they dont want to get their hands dirty

 

[bomberclifford]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-antidoping-charges-loom-20161024-gs9k94.html
This just won’t go away for Lachie Whitfield. ASADA saying it could be up to a 4 year suspension if proven.

Seems like a very flimsy case against Whitfield to me.

Has he tested positive for anything at all?

 

[Steve Dore]

Seems like a very flimsy case against Whitfield to me.

Has he tested positive for anything at all?

The penalty for avoiding a test should be at least as severe as the penalty for failing a test.

 

[LFC2010]

Seems like a very flimsy case against Whitfield to me.

Has he tested positive for anything at all?

This whole case smells fishy on all parties.

 

[Jason K]

Seems like a very flimsy case against Whitfield to me.

Has he tested positive for anything at all?

Flimsy how? Deleted emails, deleted sms's, an ex girlfriend testifying. You don't delete records because they paint pretty pictures.

 

[Forzaport]

The penalty for avoiding a test should be at least as severe as the penalty for failing a test.

I thought it was?

 

[bomberclifford]

The penalty for avoiding a test should be at least as severe as the penalty for failing a test.

Is it actually confirmed that he actually avoided a test though?
It reads to me like it's just the sms to the girlfriend that is the only evidence.

I'm not saying he didn't do anything dodgy, just that the case seems flimsy.

 

[TeeKray]

Seems like a very flimsy case against Whitfield to me.

Has he tested positive for anything at all?

 

[powermacs]

Seems like a very flimsy case against Whitfield to me.

Has he tested positive for anything at all?

If they hid him from testers they deserve the book thrown at them. Collingwood would be nervous that Gubby Allen might be due for a spell on sidelines just after they moved balmy on.

"Hiding" at an assistant coaches house for 3 days to keep clear of his x? Laughable.

 

[bomberclifford]

Flimsy how? Deleted emails, deleted sms's, an ex girlfriend testifying. You don't delete records because they paint pretty pictures.

I delete emails and sms messages all the time. It's not necessarily evidence of any wrong doing.

There was an independent investigation that made a recommended to GWS that there was nothing to be concerned about.
As 'dodgy' as the story about Whitfield trying to avoid an obsessive girlfriend sounds, it's still a plausible explanation.

 

[powermacs]

Players have to let the testers know where they are spending the night every night. I believe I heard one of them say they have a phone app where they can update their comings and goings. To not do this for 3 days is dodgy.

 

[bomberclifford]

Players have to let the testers know where they are spending the night every night. I believe I heard one of them say they have a phone app where they can update their comings and goings. To not do this for 3 days is dodgy.

Fair enough. I didn't know it was that extreme.

(and whatever you do, don't tell Mrs Bomber about that app.)

 

[powermacs]

Fair enough. I didn't know it was that extreme.

(and whatever you do, don't tell Mrs Bomber about that app.)

Haha, find my phone app is a real pickle on a night out. Turn it off and I'm every chance to loose my phone or risk letting the wife see we're at the palace.