How do you fix Melbourne?

[fushy]

Midfield is a bit of a worry though - what happened to that Magner guy?

He is tearing up the VFl, hes a rookie so we cant name in unless someone gets on the LTIL.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

The Wines, Toumpas debate is valid as it shows a clear understanding of a draft the club could have made a statement , by injecting two gun inside hard at it mids , instead they are obsessed with outside types, something RFC did whilst Royal and Rawlings were at RFC.
Interesting coincidence isn't it.
Watts , Tregrove, Toumpas all outside types they have used high draft picks on, have enjoyed the fact RFC now err on the side of the harder at it types , over the outside types when drafting kids.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Garland was better then Howe he made mistakes but was one of the few to put his head over it and actually try.

Disagree thought Howe was Melbourne's best, actually took the game on.

 

[loki04]

Disagree thought Howe was Melbourne's best, actually took the game on.

All flash no substance, he is a cream player melb need the meat and potatoes 1st and foremost.

He was one of the better melb players there was lucky to be 4 of them.

 

[Richo83]

He symbolised Richmonds problem and in fact he was the poster boy for it but he wasnt the problem in itself and getting rid of him didnt fix your problems.

It didn't remove the problem in itself, but it certainly helped.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It didn't remove the problem in itself, but it certainly helped.

It helped because he was a dud, thats all.

 

[nickrebellious]

He is tearing up the VFl, hes a rookie so we cant name in unless someone gets on the LTIL.

Throw Watts on the LTIL. Magner impressed me last year.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

how to fix melbourne.
IN: Mark Choco Williams
OUT: Mark Neeld

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The Wines, Toumpas debate is valid as it shows a clear understanding of a draft the club could have made a statement , by injecting two gun inside hard at it mids , instead they are obsessed with outside types, something RFC did whilst Royal and Rawlings were at RFC.
Interesting coincidence isn't it.

ALternatively knowing they need a lot of everything have taken an outsider to go with Viney the insider.

Toumpas vs Wines is not the issue here. Not in the top 30 of Melbournes problems.

 

[rfctiger90]

Why is Magner a rookie?? Wasn't he one of Melbourne's best last season??

 

[Super Hans]

The Wines, Toumpas debate is valid as it shows a clear understanding of a draft the club could have made a statement , by injecting two gun inside hard at it mids , instead they are obsessed with outside types, something RFC did whilst Royal and Rawlings were at RFC.
Interesting coincidence isn't it.
Watts , Tregrove, Toumpas all outside types they have used high draft picks on, have enjoyed the fact RFC now err on the side of the harder at it types , over the outside types when drafting kids.

Toumpas is a good player. Almost every recruitment team would of taken him before Wines. It was the Viney/Wines relationship that made people think Wines would be taken before him by Melbourne.

 

[West Coast Weasel]

what happened to that Magner guy?

I was thinking the same thing looking at the match highlights.

 

[Mofra]

Thing is, while the signs are promising for the Dogs right now, they're far from a finished product. Whereas the team that was smashing the Dees last night and has looked a million bucks so far this year could also have been accused of having it 'arse backwards'. Essendon has had a decent-good spine for five years or more and have just been waiting for their midfield to catch up to become competitive.

I'm not convinced.
Their core midfield group has been together for a decent amount of time - BF group-think might have suggested they went for talls at the exclusion of their midfield group, but for mine they followed more of the Hawks model.

 

[Mofra]

Point is you didnt CHOOSE Wallis and Libba, they chose you.

We drafted Clay Smith the year after we picked those two up - a competitive beast, inside mid.
We even took Hrovat & Prudden last year with picks - the message is "you never have enough players who can win their own ball".
We picked up Dahlhaus (as a rookie) because of his defensive pressure - he had the worst kicking efficiency in the TAC for his year (or pretty close to it).

Regardless of Libba & Willis being handed to us on a platter, we are drafting to the "inside-out" model. Macrae is the only outside type we've taken in two years, and his dad has the physique of Adonis so even he will be one of your taller, heavier mids in time.

It will be very interesting to see how Melbourne approach list management this year - I suspect some support for Viney & Jones will be high on the priority list.

 

[LBJ6]

]
We even took Hrovat & Prudden last year with picks - the message is "you never have enough players who can win their own ball".

That's odd, all the WB supporters were saying the only reason you took Macrae over Wines was becuase you had too many inside players already.

 

[ManOfClay]

Midfield is a bit of a worry though - what happened to that Magner guy?

Too busy fighting with fans on instagram.

 

[Mofra]

That's odd, all the WB supporters were saying the only reason you took Macrae over Wines was becuase you had too many inside players already.

We judged Macrae to be the better player, end of story. Stringer spent a lot of time as a tough mid at VFL level - that 3 inside mids out of five kids at the draft, with Lachie Hunter spending most of last year working on the defensive side of his game.
We're clearly recruiting to a plan that other teams have following to similar degrees, and I believe Melbourne could benefit from.

Are you saying you don't think tough, ball winning inside mids would help the Demons?

 

[ManOfClay]

That's odd, all the WB supporters were saying the only reason you took Macrae over Wines was becuase you had too many inside players already.

An outside mid was a need. So we took Macrae. We took more inside mids later on so we clearly didn't have too many.

 

[loki04]

Why is Magner a rookie?? Wasn't he one of Melbourne's best last season??

wasn't a first round draft pick so they don't rate him...

 

[LBJ6]

Are you saying you don't think tough, ball winning inside mids would help the Demons?

Not sure how you could possibly jump to that conclusion from what I said which was not relevant at all to Melbourne.

In the days coming up to the draft when it became evident Toumpas was sliding to Melbourne leaving Wines free to the Bulldogs and beyond, I remember reading the Bulldogs board to see if WB fans were keen on Wines. The common theme was "We already have too many inside mids, pass on Wines", and that's what you did. Seemed in direct contradiction to what you're trying to sprout in your previous posts.

 

[Mofra]

Not sure how you could possibly jump to that conclusion from what I said which was not relevant at all to Melbourne.

You're arguing against the notion, it's the only logical conclusion.

In the days coming up to the draft when it became evident Toumpas was sliding to Melbourne leaving Wines free to the Bulldogs and beyond, I remember reading the Bulldogs board to see if WB fans were keen on Wines. The common theme was "We already have too many inside mids, pass on Wines", and that's what you did. Seemed in direct contradiction to what you're trying to sprout in your previous posts.

It's not a direct contravention at all - do you honestly think we don't have enough inside mids? I'd argue we've set ourselves up well, and that Melbourne could do with more.

We're building "from the inside out", and if you look at our list we certainly have done that - we've continued to pick up inside mids even with Libba, Wallis, Smith, Boyd, Picken & Cross in our best 22, and fringe guys like Addison on the list.
Instead of saying "that's enough", we took 3 inside mids out of 5 18 year olds at the 2012 draft, and picked up Lower & Stevens via trade/unlisted free agent signings. They're the facts. We have a plan and are sticking to it.

B-Mac is consistent in his message and we're showing improvement in the areas he wants us to work on.
His mantra has been repeated so often even fans are saying it at games - "crack in".
Can Neeld's mantra be summised succinctly? Does he have one? He did say at the start of his tenure that he want Melbourne to be "the hardest team in the AFL to play against" but their actions at the trade table, and arguably the draft table, have not reflected this message. That is an issue I believe Melbourne need to address.

 

[DannyJacobs]

This is what I was thinking last night.

B-Mac says you build a club "from the inside out" - hence we took Clay Smith with our first pick last year, to complement Libba & Wallis - both non-flashy types. We then go out and take Stevens & Lower, neither will turn up to training with tinted hair & flouro boots anytime soon. Stringer as first pick this year eats concrete for breakfast.

Look at Freo - sitting pretty on top of the ladder with 4 mids over 190cm & 90kgs, with their others certainly not soft types.
Look at Hawks - not much flashy in the midfield, mostly tough as hell types
Look at Sydney - nobody gets an easy kick when playing them.

Now Toumpas may end up an excellent player, but Melbourne have gone out and signed Mitch Clark & Dawes & taken Pederson as a tall cast-off (WTF?) without the tough base to build their midfield on.

Wines would be ideal for them. Build from the inside out is absolutely correct, and Melbourne have it arse-backwards.

Spot on. One of Clarkson's first moves in resurrecting the Hawthorn football club was by weeding out the flashy match-stick types, and by promoting Vandenburg to captain who was in no way ever going to be an elite midfielder but wore his heart on his sleeve and played for the jumper week in and out. From there he was able to construct his entire team and football department on core values including commitment and determination which are mandatory for success.

Melbourne on the other hand, from an outside point of view, seem to take the simplistic approach of looking at the premiership clock framework with the attitude that draft picks= success. This polluted view is toxic for the culture of the club all the way from the inner sanctum to grass roots level. A complete overhaul is required from the current playing group through to football department then to board level.

They can consider themselves lucky that they are not known as the 'Hawthorn', or 'Western' etc Demons or they would have been sent packing from Victoria or killed off long ago.

DJ

 

[Sprout]

Our ruck division is the worst in the AFL. Jamar is not only now absolutely useless in the centre bounces, but incredibly useless around the ground. On the rare occasion he takes a grab, he will handball it to a flat footed player one metre away from him without checking to see if the player is under any pressure. 9/10 times it results in a turnover.

I know Clark came to Melbourne to play FF/CHF, but we NEED him to go into the ruck. It is literally our only hope to help improve our centre clearances. Jamar out of the side.

Watts CHF. Dawes (when fit) FF. Until then, Pedersen or (shudder) Sellar at FF.

That's the only way I can personally envision some short term improvement. Other than that, we are screwed. The sad thing is I don't even miss us winning, I miss us being competitive. I was thinking last night, "remember when we only would lose by a couple of goals and the game wasn't over at half time" - what a joke of a club. Neeld has really screwed this place over.

I'd take halftime. Our first 2 games have been over at quarter time.

Jamar was deplorable. Must not play next week, it's killing us in the middle.

 

[SSSSSS]

They have zero leadership, zero players who actually want to put their body on the line (Viney and Jones is an exception). They really should look at the State leagues and have a look at players who may not have the talent to be in their list in 5 years time but are actually prepared to work their arse off for the team. Melbourne have more potential talent then most teams barring Gold Coast and GWS but they have no desire. Give a go to those trying hard rather then the primadonas like Sylvia and Watts.

Honestly right now Melbourne need to do what Hardwick and Clarkson did. Work on changing the terrible culture at the club before trying to build a premiership list.

Also not promoting Magner to the senior list is just a stupid decision. The guy puts his body on the line unlike the 18-20 other players on the field.

 

[Dazb86]