How to fix GWS?

[RUNVS]

On the Swans board yesterday Wheresbuddy posted a team of former GWS players who are now with other clubs

B Wilson Corr Frost
HB Williams Marchbank Tomlinson
C Shiel Steele Treloar
HF Smith Cameron Hoskin-Elliott
F Langdon Lobb Finlayson
Foll Phillips Adams Kennedy
Res Caldwell Hately Bonar Setterfield

and it got me thinking about how there is surely no other team in the competition at the moment that could be realistically beaten by a team of their former players. Add Hopper and Taranto to the above team and the 2023 GWS team would not have a chance.

It is clearly a bad thing that so many quality players from GWS have left that there is enough of them to form their own team and that team would beat the current GWS but I was wondering what could be done to fix this as surely it is in the AFL's best interest to fix this.

Right now one of a few things happen. GWS pick up a high draft pick player who leaves after a few years, or who GWS manage to convince to stay but only after paying them way over what they are actually worth. Guys like Kelly and Whitfield are on so much that they are de-stabilising the GWS cap. GWS can't convince first round draft pick players to stay unless they are paid way overs.

Obviously the AFL would not like this as GWS can't grow as a club if they are in a constant never ending rebuild due to players leaving, so with that in mind what can be done about it? What do you think GWS or the AFL (or both) should do to try and combat this?

Now I am going to offer a suggestion here that I know will likely not be hugely popular but I think the AFL need to give GWS back their original zones for the Acadmey. A number of years ago they got a few really good players in a row from the Riverina area, and Collingwood and a few others managed to lobby to get certain parts of the Riverina removed from GWS's zone. I think these areas need to be reinstated. GWS need to bring in players who are less likely to leave and if they are from NSW then it does mean they are probably more likely to stay. It is why clubs like Gold Coast and GWS when they are terrible lose players, and a lot of players but when Carlton and Melbourne were bad they did not lose that many players, it is because when a club is bad players want to go home more, but with Melbourne and Carlton their players were already home, while for GWS most of their players are not from NSW.

Also like David King said just today, and I can't believe I am agreeing with him but first round draft pick players need to be given longer initial contracts. I am not saying 4 years like King suggested but I do think a 3 year contract is more healthy and helpful for clubs like GWS than a 2 year contract.

What would you do to fix the situation at GWS where they are losing player after player every year?

 

[Giant Gutsache]

Fill the Board with people who understand and love the game.

 

[BigPond101]

That team you posted is surprisingly piss poor tbh. Apart from Cameron I can't see any other above average player there. Seems like they have butchered all their high draft picks

 

[MF]

This is always going to be a problem for the northern clubs when they perform poorly on field (and would be for Tasmania too if they ever get a team).

 

[Tiger2709]

This is always going to be a problem for the northern clubs when they perform poorly on field (and would be for Tasmania too if they ever get a team).

Not quite as much as they are a footy state and have better infrastructure in place, Swans took a long time to establish themselves in a non AFL state but now they have they are a destination club, hopefully the other Northern teams will eventually be the same.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Move them to the ACT.
That changes them from a franchise to a club.
Once they lose the franchise tag, the culture will change

 

[Dangerousfield]

The AFL want the northern clubs so they get a whopping media deal but don't do enough to stem the flow of 'go home' draftees. Northern clubs, particularly the new teams will be in constant rebuild, both have had to pay overs to keep southern talent and both keep having cap problems. They are operating in hostile territory with a large % of their players from out of state, unlike the Vic clubs who have mostly players from within their state.

So disband the predatory Melbourne clubs! who never pay correct level of compo in trades, although we (Crows) are doing that now too, yikes!

Note Richmond at this very moment are offering highly performed pick 2 and pick 7 big seven year contracts but expect to get them in a trade for no more than likely (after F/S & PP) picks 13, 22, 34 and next years first which could be a late teens. That is in no way adequate.

The salary cap should not be the same for all clubs as they operate in different environments with different challenges. Vic clubs can keep and lure players with cheaper contracts, it's a huge advantage.

Advantages to Vic clubs are flagged as tradition, any advantage other states have is called out as an advantage. See the Vic outrage about Northern academies.

But the AFL is a corrupt and Vic centric organisation, so don't expect change or help. GWS will just need to take the latest reaming by Richmond as the Tigers are a big Victorian club who therefore deserve to stay at the top!

 

[VernonSpots]

Let GWS have the sole NSW Academy and Swans rely on Father-Son like rest of us

 

[Wheresbuddy]

That team you posted is surprisingly piss poor tbh. Apart from Cameron I can't see any other above average player there. Seems like they have butchered all their high draft picks

Ouch! Look it's not the greatest side but all players have played AFL this year. Could the same exercise be repeated for any other club (esp a Melbourne one) such that a team resembling an AFL standard one be formed?

The point is it shows how many AFL standard players (not necessarily elite or even average) have been enticed out of the Giants, usually being paid overs by Victorian clubs who seem to "manage" their caps much better. So what is the problem and what can be done?

I contrast the Giants development system with the Swans. The Swans have produced guys like Heeney, Mills, Blakey, Gulden, Campbell and Wicks who all actually come from around Sydney. Indeed some have even grown up in the very suburbs around the SCG. They have a genuine affinity with the club and its base, which brings a strong culture to the club that interstate players are happy to buy into.

The Giants have barely produced any true local players. Off the top of my head Shipley (who is now a VFL Swan) and Flynn are the only two true Western Sydney recruits. Their other academy products, of which there are quite a few, are all from southern NSW or Canberra. Many have even done boarding school in Victoria. So they really don't count as GWS locals and I doubt they have that affinity for the club and the area. Coupled with the interstate guys who are only there because of the huge contracts (Whitfield, Coniglio, Greene and Kelly), the spirit and culture within the club would surely have to be poor. The players have next to no connection with the locals and most if not all actually live in the inner west and eastern suburbs of Sydney, ironically the Swans heartland.

So if GWS are to climb out of their mess, they need to start truely representing the Western suburbs of Sydney, ie west of Parramatta. They need to put more into the local area, develop local players and get more local supporters passionate about the Giants. They need to have marquee players who the locals can relate to - a GWS equivalent to Isaac Heeney or Callum Mills. Their players need to be seen out and about and living in the local area. Instead of sipping lattes at Bondi, GWS players need to be seen at the Rooty Hill RSL having a schooner.

We all understand western Sydney is a tough market to crack. It is very multi cultural with soccer and rugby firmly entrenched amongst the ethnic groups who reside there. They need to become truely local to succeed. I have my doubts as to whether they can pull it off and it may well be that the best thing is to move them to Canberra or wind them up and give the franchise to Tasmania.

 

[Chism]

Players drafted from other states will always crave playing for the bigger clubs. Playing at GWS and the Suns in front of 10k home supporters in what resembles a VFL crowd sometimes doesn’t cut it for some.

These kids they draft especially from bigger crowd drawing states are dissapointed when they don’t have the chance to play in front of them. Can’t blame the kids for leaving when the supporters don’t turn up and they crave the big games and crowds.

GWS and the Suns are just failed money making adventures by the AFL and the Gold Coast in particular has never had a decent team even in the NRL. It is a graveyard as no one there cares much for sports and it is tourist country apart from the few purists but that won’t cut it crowd wise and passion etc.

If I was a 18yo draftee from Victoria albeit happy to be drafted at all I would not want either GWS or the Suns calling my name out.

 

[RichLeMonde]

GWS will just need to take the latest reaming by Richmond

I don’t have anything to add to this comment, I just enjoyed it so much I wanted to see it in print again

 

[RUNVS]

Players drafted from other states will always crave playing for the bigger clubs. Playing at GWS and the Suns in front of 10k home supporters in what resembles a VFL crowd sometimes doesn’t cut it for some.

These kids they draft especially from bigger crowd drawing states are dissapointed when they don’t have the chance to play in front of them. Can’t blame the kids for leaving when the supporters don’t turn up and they crave the big games and crowds.

GWS and the Suns are just failed money making adventures by the AFL and the Gold Coast in particular has never had a decent team even in the NRL. It is a graveyard as no one there cares much for sports and it is tourist country apart from the few purists but that won’t cut it crowd wise and passion etc.

If I was a 18yo draftee from Victoria albeit happy to be drafted at all I would not want either GWS or the Suns calling my name out.

Doesn't bode well for Tasmania, and Tasmania doesn't have the benefit of players being able to be anonymous when going to the shops.

 

[TRP1996]

and it got me thinking about how there is surely no other team in the competition at the moment that could be realistically beaten by a team of their former players.

Crows arguably came pretty close in recent times.

 

[Blackas87]

Up to the Giants themselves and the people of Western Sydney to create a footy culture where players want to be.

 

[Bald]

The answer is simple. You don't.

 

[Toump Ass]

Look it's not the greatest side but all players have played AFL this year. Could the same exercise be repeated for any other club (esp a Melbourne one) such that a team resembling an AFL standard one be formed?

Of course not. GWS started with more list spots and were given draft concessions to pick the best talent. Of course they were going to lose players once their list size reduced and the young talent matured. That's the salary cap working.

 

[gouki88]

That team you posted is surprisingly piss poor tbh. Apart from Cameron I can't see any other above average player there. Seems like they have butchered all their high draft picks

I can't tell if you're serious. Steele is a 2x All-Australian, 2x B&F winner and club captain. Taylor Adams is a former AA and B&F winner. Shiel and Treloar are both easily above average, not to mention the impending loss of both Taranto & Hopper.

 

[Demons09]

Fix the club they played in a GF few years back.

 

[The 747]

Well a few things have gone wrong....

Like the Suns have a horrendous record with injuries. Not sure why that is the case, not enough spent on the medical/conditioning team as an expansion club.

Looks like they have misread where the game is going by stocking up on inside mids thinking Ross Lyon style footy would win out. List management.

Were always going to lose players, that is how it was supposed to work, but wasted a lot of draft picks (maybe had access to too many?). I thought their initial plan of picking up gun KPP with their early draft picks and trading them out if needed was a good plan, but they have gone away from that and have a lot of tall jabronis now.

Have rarely played with a cohesive system; rely on individual talent. Coaching.

 

[Defabs]

Move them to the ACT.
That changes them from a franchise to a club.
Once they lose the franchise tag, the culture will change

Yep the team should play 7 games in Canberra with the remaining 4 games played at the SCG. AFL has never been foreign to Canberra. GWS crowds do much better there than Western Sydney. If they get 7 games, people of Canberra would be able to call the AFL team their own.

 

[Danw0w]

That team would win the wooden spoon if it were real.

 

[Number37]

Build a dirty great big AFL stadium in the heart of the Penrith area and move their base out that way.

 

[Rich01]

Brisbane were like this a few years ago.
They need good football people and build a strong team culture.

They are still a plastic organisation that players only stay for money unfortunately.

But this can change quickly.
They need to help themselves though.

 

[Kappa]

Doesn't bode well for Tasmania, and Tasmania doesn't have the benefit of players being able to be anonymous when going to the shops.

Hobart is also no Sydney that's for sure.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

Brisbane were like this a few years ago.
They need good football people and build a strong team culture.

They are still a plastic organisation that players only stay for money unfortunately.

But this can change quickly.
They need to help themselves though.

Much more of a footy culture in Bne. Plenty of ex Victorians for starters. Well developed junior participation at club and school level. Pretty decent senior comp in the QAFL with alot of ex AFL input amongst coaching and playing ranks. GC the same.

Compare this to GWS. Multi cultural demographic consisting of Polynesians (rugby), Middle Easterners and Africans (soccer, no real culture of contact sport), Asians (non contact). As such, low junior participation and interest and no real senior presence in Sydney comp. Ask a kid at Blacktown High to name a GWS player and if they could answer, I'd guarantee they wouldn't be able to name another.

So yes, Bne was a rabble but there was a good culture for good management to build on. GWS have none. Their sole reason for existing is for the TV rights which is why they are a basket case that no one wants to play for. Their only hope for long term success is to somehow win over the hearts and minds of western Sydney.