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How we stack up when it counts.

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shawthing09

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
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Location
melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
There is really no point judging where we are at against anyone else but Geelong at the moment as they are the clear yard stick. So I thought it would be worthwhile going through player by player and line by line. Who stood up? Who didn't? Where did we win? Where did we lose? Most importantly where is the improvement going to come from?

FB: Toovey, Brown, Harry

Toovey- Typical type game got given a couple of different roles, at most times kept his direct opponent quiet. He is a role player and he did that ok on friday night.
Grade C

Brown - Played on Pods most of the game. Pods looked threatening and got a bit of the ball but not a high percentage of that was in dangerous areas. Brown probably won the one on one match up which is all you can really ask.
Grade - C

Harry - Got an important defensive job on Steve Johnson and I was rapt with that. He has seemed to have faded a bit form wise and it was good to see him get back to hid real strengths. Johnson had to work extremely hard for the ball and was never really able to find or create space and Harry offered a bit the other way.
Grade - B+

Half back: Heater, Reid, Maxwell

Heath- Typical Heath Shaw game, got a lot of the ball provided run, made a few panic type, brain fade decisions and did a lot of awesome defensive work zoning off his man to be third man up. Was one of our best on the day.
Grade- B+

Reid - Played on Mooney and put in a good performance although the match up probably went Mooney's way. Reid's 1%ers and zoning off work was top class and suprisningly got the better of Mooney in a number of one on one's. Unfortunately got lost or gave Mooney the first step on a couple of occasions and paid for it. A good and promising showing but still lots of room for improvement.
Grade - C+

Maxwell - Typically solid in his defence and was more willing and able to get foward of the ball and create then I am used to seeing. A good solid game.
Grade - B-



Defence summary- The defence really held it's own and stood up in the big match. All defenders pretty much would have felt they won or at least broke even in their individual one on one match ups.
Grade- B+

Room for improvement- Presti is still to come in, and whilst Brown has played his role he just isn't Presti. Brown did well on Pods but I can't see Geelong being as willing to kick to a Pods-Presti one on one contests as they where to a Pods - Brown one. Completely shutting out an avenue to goal like this is a win on two folds. It puts extra pressure on the other foward options and allows our defenders who are zoning off to be able to worry about one less option making it easier for them to get to more contests.

Rucks: Jolly / Wood

Jolly - A disappointing game overall, he was beaten by Blake, not comprehensively but still beaten. His top end work still shows why we got him, tap work to advantage is great but he was beaten by Blake in terms of positioning at boundary throw ins and timing at center bounces far too often.
Grade - C-

Wood - I am going to avoid the long list of fitting adjectives to describe how poor he was and get to the point. He was beaten by Hawkins in the ruck and offered absolutely nothing in an other area of the game. 6th year in the system and in his time at Collingwood has not shown any improvement.
Grade - U/G

Ruck summary- Unfortunately we just weren't good enough in this area again. Against Blake and Hawkins we really needed both Wood and Jolly to give our mids much better service. Jolly is certainly offering better then we have had in the past but he is better then he showed on Friday night. As for the Wood / Fraser battle it's a nil all draw at the moment and something else may need to be done.
Grade - D

Room for improvement - Jolly is a better player then he showed on Friday night, he was working himself into some good form and let himself down. I expect him to be / hope that he has worked his way back into some really good form later in the year. As for the second ruck situation who knows, It maybe a case of rather then persisting with two poor second rucks we try and strengthen the side by pinch hitting Dawes through the ruck and including Anthony in the fowardline.

Midfield rotations

Ball - Exactly the sort of game you'd expect from him and showed everything that he is as a player both good and bad. Great clearance work, won a stack of contested ball, good tackle work. Fantastic inside mids game. At the same time when he got it foward of the center he just doesn't have the class that a pure A grade mid does. What he does well he does fantastic but he just lacks a tad of being totally elite. That said he was our best on the night IMO and it's hard to be critical.
Grade- B+

Swan - Had Ling for periods and spent a lot of time behind the ball in the defensive half, read the play well and offered a lot of run. Seemed at times to be hindered by a knee injury but it didn't seem to impact his movement much. A good solid performance. Has better in him but certainly not a bad game.
Grade- B-

Didak - I was actually pretty disappointed with Didak. It's no secret that he is an outside player and is not going to really put his body on the line, but I think if you are going to do that playing through the midfield you really got to hurt your opposition when you get the ball. Missed a couple of attempts that Didak should, and in the context of his game needs to kick, wasn't as damaging or creative with the ball by foot as he can be. Didn't for mine have a great influence on the match.
Grade- C-

Thomas - Started the game really well and offered a lot of run, put his body on the line and was one of our players who looked capable of creating. Faded a bit. It was a solid / promising game without really getting right into that game.
Grade - C

Wellingham - Had the tag on Ablett to start off with and was pushing foward hard to try and make him accountable the other way. Started strongly and in the same form he was pre-break. Worked hard in contests but again faded out of the game. Spent less time in the midfield then he had in previous weeks.
Grade - C

Pendlebury - Spent much less time on ground and in the midfield then in previous weeks. What he did he did well but very little match impact. Was still one of the few players you thought was likely to hit a target up foward. Something is up for him to be playing such little time and in such a different role, whatever it is I hope it is fixed soon because he is to important to us for him to be down in this kind of game.
Grade- C-

Ben Johnson- Provided a lot of run and linking play and got a lot of the ball. He is fitter then he has been in a long term and covering a lot of ground to present an option. That said his decision making under pressure is still just to kick long and hope, it hadn't been noteable prior and wasn't horrible on Friday, but it is still a worry.
Grade-B

Mid summary - Our midfield come up against the best in the business and while we weren't disgraced by any means we just come up that little bit short. There where glimpes and promising signs but overall we just weren't good enough. We won more contested ball and didn't perform too badly in the clearances which is a massive plus for us against a side like Geelong. Unfortunately we just didn't have the creative winners to hurt the other way. Ball did fantastic at winning the ball in tight but none of the outside runners really had a huge impact. The numbers possesion wise of our guys that generally hurt on the outside where well down.

Grade- C+

Room for improvement - Besides Ball and Ben Johnson most in the list would feel the could have done more. Swan spent a lot of time and got a lot of his possesions behind the ball. The lack of linking drive that he usually gives us wasn't filled by Didak and Thomas the way it should have been. Pendlebury wasn't around the stoppages long enough for him to have his usually impact. There is really a huge room for improvement from that group. 4 quaters from Wellingham and Thomas and more time in the center for Swan and Pendles who are our 2 best and most important players in that group will make a huge difference.

HF: Beams Dawes Sidebottom

Beams - Did everything you can ask 4 goals 2. Looked dangerous, attacked the footy well, read the play and the situation well, looked dangerous when ever he was near it.
Grade - A

Dawes - It's been discussed but offered nothing. Didn't present, run under the flight of the ball to often didn't create a contest. On one of the rare occasions he actually did touch the ball he made a horrible decision with it. It was a real stinker. The worst part is that often when the ball went over the back of the contest the Geelong defence was able to run it out with ease and put our defence under real pressure. Needs to bounce back.
Grade - E

Sidebottom - Largely unnoticed, reads the play around stoppages really well but isn't physically able to compete in those situations yet. Works hard will be good but no real impact on the contest.
Grade - D

FF: Macaffer, Cloke, O'Bree, Davis

Macaffer - Let himself down with his goal kicking. He was solid otherwise but you can't miss those sort of shots. Something has happened to his goal kicking because once upon a time he was an extremely reliable set shot for goal.
Grade - D


Cloke - Looked really dangerous early and presented well, clearly to strong for Taylor. Unfortunately got to much of his ball on the wing and didn't have much to kick to. As the game went on was more often then not outnumbered and found it increasingly hard to have any kind of impact.
Grade - C


O'Bree - He is not a half foward flanker and was poor, hardly sighted, paniced with it, is just not a dangerous enough player to be used in a half foward role.
Grade - D

Davis - Really struggled to offer anything but I don't think any small foward would have in the role he was on Friday night. Poor performance and poor form equalled by the poor role he is been given. He is well down but I think this week it was as much the guys around hims fault as it was his own.
Grade - D

Foward sumarry - We broke down foward of the center. It's easy to say that happened because we played wide, but I think part of the reason we played wide was because they shut down our space foward along the half foward line. In previous weeks both Dawes and Cloke where owning the half foward line and our mids where able to deliver with confidence. They shut Dawes down and we struggled in that area and the ball movement suffered. Beams was the star and he did so in a typical oppertunistic small foward manner. Which is reflective of the fact that we lacked targets.
Grade - D

Room for improvement - Anthony / Medhurst, a third target was really needed. Someone to at least offer a contest and give us something to kick to with confidence. Davis in Medhursts role was never going to work. There is still a lot for the fowardline to prove. Dawes has a lot of improving to do before he is able to stand up in that kind of game. Davis needs to lift his game or he will make way when Dick is fit.
 
It is fair to say having read this thread that there is alot of room for improvement which is great! Very enjoyable and insightful read. Thanks. :thumbsu:
 
That was a great read, certainly shows that we are still a bit off Geelong at the moment.

Real concern is the rucks, u/g for Wood is a little harsh but perhaps warrented. Rather than bring in Fraser, as you said its a nil-nil draw b/w the 2, probably go one out with Jolly and Dawes pinch hitting.

Presti, Medders & Dick when fit need to come in to the 22 imo.
 

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I'm not a fan of the 3 tall attack game plan playing Anthony, Cloke and Dawes, however last Friay was one occasion I saw it as possibly the best option in that we had more chance of making Scarlett or Milburn accountable with Medhurst out of the side, yet we wen't down a different path.

I was quite bemused that the change was Wellingham for Anthony.
 
I think Didak deserved a B, i thought he played well and is begining to perform in bigger games now.
 
Great read and well done on the post but I can't agree with the Heath Shaw grade of B+, he got a lot of the ball but turned it over way to much.

Struggled to hit a target all night.

Probably a little over the top on second thought. Especially when in comparison to some of the others who I have marked harsher. He did struggle to find a target but he also did some really impressive work defensively zoning off, covering for other players etc. He could have been better offensively but I still rated his overall performance. Probably a B would have been more apt.

I think Didak deserved a B, i thought he played well and is begining to perform in bigger games now.
I think a lot of people are going to cut Didak a lot of slack on the basis of "he is performing in big games" I don't think that's warranted. At least I think for us to be a real genuine contender he has to do much more and he is capable of it. Of his 20 touches 2 where shots at goal which he missed. In a game where we really needed a player to link and create he just didn't do enough. He has been playing as a linking midfielder all year and didn't step up, nor was he damaging with any of his disposals. This would be the first game in a long time that Didak has had 0 goal contributions.

I'm not a fan of the 3 tall attack game plan playing Anthony, Cloke and Dawes, however last Friay was one occasion I saw it as possibly the best option in that we had more chance of making Scarlett or Milburn accountable with Medhurst out of the side, yet we wen't down a different path.

I was quite bemused that the change was Wellingham for Anthony.

I was too, and I am generally not a fan of the 3 tall set up either. Although I am warming to the idea of Dawes pinch hitting in the ruck and playing all 3, at least as a trail. That said your right Geelong has too many tall defenders who are so good at both zoning off and also creating to go in with the foward line we did.
 
Yer i am also liking the idea of the three tall forwards with Dawes playing a similar role to what Hawkins is at the Cats. It will also take a lot of preasure of Jack becuase he wont be having the number 1 or 2 deffenders.
 
Great read ST :thumbsu: A more constructive and positive way of looking at the game than some discussion going around in here.

I think there is plenty of improvement in that performance both from how I think we can set up structurally and also in the performances from the players.

I think more centre clearance midfield time for both Wellingham but particularly Pendlebury will just lift us a lot more. It's actually encouraging we won in the clearances with their limited midfield roles. You noted we were lacking an outside mid and I agree. I think there is improvement in Thomas but i'd also like to see Davis in this role, I think he would have been more dangerous and involved this way.

I feel if our midfield can lift and work harder - and I have no reason to think there isn't plenty of improvement here - I think our defence would be stretched less (Presti will be a big addition here also) and we would look more dangerous up forward. We got caught out in the third and fourth quarter by quick and clear clearances which really put our defence on the back foot. If we can manage to create the same sort of clearances our forwards would come into the game more.

Davis in the midfield would allow Didak to move to the half forward line. I think we are more dangerous also with Medhurst up forward who just provides another target and a tricky defensive match up. I think Dicks inclusion would also add some energy and issues for oppo defences - he would have been handy against Geelong because the smalls seems to be the best way to stretch them defensively.
 
Great post shawthing, although I must disagree on your assessment of Heath Shaw. I thought he had an absolute mare. I know Shaw is one of our most talented players, I'm not overreacting and not calling for his head, but that was a woeful game for him and I'm sure he's aware of it. Turned the ball over way too many times, slipped, handballed to players under more pressure than he... yuck.

Agree that the third marking player was needed, if it wasn't to be Medhurst it should have been Jack. We needed to make their defence accountable and we failed. More to the point perhaps, those two are our most accurate forwards and we lacked accuracy sorely.

Wellingham was a bit underdone IMHO, perhaps not in fitness but he wasn't as clean as he routinely is at this level. He'll probably bounce back against the AFL Lions this week.
 

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As for the second ruck situation who knows, It maybe a case of rather then persisting with two poor second rucks we try and strengthen the side by pinch hitting Dawes through the ruck and including Anthony in the fowardline.


:thumbsu: Agree strongly with this comment...I mean both ruckmen were outplayed but we still won the clearances...so why do we need two specialist ruckmen, particularly when their rucking ain't that good anyway.

Also loved the way Beams took responsibility...is developing a real presence on the field. Whilst I thnk Sidebottom and Wellingham are great, I think Beams is a much more consistent performer and will perform in any type of game, big or small occassion.
 
Davis must be carrying something. Either that or he is looking for the easy kicks. There was one moment early when he attacked the ball at good speed early in the game from 20m away, and did a couple of nice things with the ball (setting up Swan's first goal was one) but after that not much. Tried to take a big mark but couldn't get off the ground. Always hanging out the back of packs and not working to the front for a crumb.

I'm just hanging for the day where he can back up BOG in big games so he can shove it up all of us- and I can shove it up my Leon Bashing Mates
 
I think in future if we were to include,Medhurst,Presti,Dick and fraser when we next meet Geelong we will have a strong inprovment.

A fit Fraser will do wonders against the cats.Fraser has seemed to have it over both Ottens and Blake,but unfortunately has been injured and has not played against Geelong for over two yaers now including finals,he in my opinion would have been the diffrence in that 5 point prelim loss to the cats.

So against geelong with some added experience into our existing team when next we meet will be fruitful.
 

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I think in future if we were to include,Medhurst,Presti,Dick and fraser when we next meet Geelong we will have a strong inprovment.

A fit Fraser will do wonders against the cats.Fraser has seemed to have it over both Ottens and Blake,but unfortunately has been injured and has not played against Geelong for over two yaers now including finals,he in my opinion would have been the diffrence in that 5 point prelim loss to the cats.

So against geelong with some added experience into our existing team when next we meet will be fruitful.

I would be beside myself with joy if I believed that Fraser 'has seemed to have it over Ottens and Blake'!

Let us also not forget the players that Geelong had out of the side, including Ottens, who I rate much higher than Fraser. I don't think it's wise to rate Fraser on what he may have been like against Geelong in a game 2 years ago.
 
I would be beside myself with joy if I believed that Fraser 'has seemed to have it over Ottens and Blake'!

Let us also not forget the players that Geelong had out of the side, including Ottens, who I rate much higher than Fraser. I don't think it's wise to rate Fraser on what he may have been like against Geelong in a game 2 years ago.


Got to remember Dawsie,when fit fraser is too mobile for either Ottens and Blake.When Geelong were opur bitches over two years ago,both ottens and blake went up against fraser,and Freaser towelled both of them up,and he was our only ruck man.

Ever since fraser has missed all games against geelong since then the cats have had the ascendancy in the ruck.
But to put things in to perspective Ottens is very injury prone now i reckon he is nearly finished.A fit Fraser and Jolly combination will do the job against the cats,pity Malty didn't play Fraser last week.

Who is missing from the geelong side ?
Ottens who is half the player now to what he used to be.
Rooke who is nearly at the tail end of his career battering your body year in year out catches up with you.These two will not have the impact the use to have.

Who else of note was missing from the cats side?
 
:thumbsu: Agree strongly with this comment...I mean both ruckmen were outplayed but we still won the clearances...so why do we need two specialist ruckmen, particularly when their rucking ain't that good anyway.

Also loved the way Beams took responsibility...is developing a real presence on the field. Whilst I thnk Sidebottom and Wellingham are great, I think Beams is a much more consistent performer and will perform in any type of game, big or small occassion.

I think physical development is a major reason why beams looks stronger on field. He is a tank for a 20yo. If you look at sidebottom it is clear that he is still only a boy. Shows how smart he is on the field to be playing so well. Give him 3 more years lifting weights and we will have another gun!!
 

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