Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

[Crankyhawk]

The gap has had to get larger. GP rebate indexation was frozen for 5 or 6 years. Diagnostic imaging rebates were frozen for two decades. All the while businesses (which is what they are) are paying commercial rents, annual wage increases, etc.

Is the GP model broken? Don’t know, but the number of medical students wanting to enter general practice is falling and those currently practicing are reducing their hours at an alarming rate.


Unfortunately when comment is required on the health crisis de jour, the media often go to the AMA. The AMA is a union and inevitably the answer is “more funding”. Funding of what?

If you want to spend more money in health, open up training. The example of nurse training in Victoria is ideal but needs to be replicated across a number of skill groups.

I can tell you right now a number of state govt health initiatives from this election are going to be dead on arrival not because of money but because they can’t be staffed.

I think it was the decision by the Howard government to cap provider numbers which led to junior doctors not being able to try out gp land and remain in hospital system/ seek specialist training rather than gp. This was around 1996/7

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Pollies are addicted to announcements and big dollar splashes

more beds (never mind we can't staff the ones we have)
more hospitals (who's going to work there though when we have staffing shortages already)

same with roads, they love a new bridge or tunnel or freeway but won't pay to maintain what we have properly

schools, same

splash the cash on a headline and don't worry about the actual problems

And railways.
Big giant level crossing removal.
Services dont increase.

If you can't cut a ribbon on it forget it

 

[Gralin]

And railways.
Big giant level crossing removal.
Services dont increase.

The excuse is always until the line has none left.

After that it will probably be until metro 2 opens.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

The excuse is always until the line has none left.

After that it will probably be until metro 2 opens.

Even then there's stuff that hasn't been done.
Clyde was said it couldn't be done until Cranbourne was duplicated. It's been duplicated for a bit now.
No progress at all.

 

[peetoo]

And railways.
Big giant level crossing removal.
Services dont increase.

If you can't cut a ribbon on it forget it

Actually dissing the lxr programs. Amazing

If it was such a typical pollie thing to do, how come previous govts didn’t do it

 

[Not Important]

this. especially 4 dear eddie smith.



and this

 

[eddiesmith]

Yawn

Obsessed much?

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Actually dissing the lxr programs. Amazing

If it was such a typical pollie thing to do, how come previous govts didn’t do it

They have though. Just Dan Andrews Government has gone into overdrive with it.
Previous ones have been very much singular ones.

Removing level crossings is a highly visible thing to do. Adding extra trains on a line isn't

 

[peetoo]

They have though. Just Dan Andrews Government has gone into overdrive with it.
Previous ones have been very much singular ones.

Removing level crossings is a highly visible thing to do. Adding extra trains on a line isn't

Theres a reason, but I’m sure you know it anyway

 

[adogsfan5]

this. especially 4 dear eddie smith.



and this

Eddie didn’t remove mask mandates in Victoria mate, Andrews did. If you’re unhappy with the decision, you should probably include Andrews into the conversation, not a random person on a footy forum.

 

[Evolved1]

this. especially 4 dear eddie smith.



and this

Nobody is stopping you wearing a mask if you feel the need. Don't blame Eddie for your issues.

 

[Evolved1]

BTW, back to the thread topic.

It appears the Victorian public rated his performance as pretayyy pretayyy good.

This is what peak delusion looks like. Fascinating.

 

[Mateyman]

The gap has had to get larger. GP rebate indexation was frozen for 5 or 6 years. Diagnostic imaging rebates were frozen for two decades. All the while businesses (which is what they are) are paying commercial rents, annual wage increases, etc.

Is the GP model broken? Don’t know, but the number of medical students wanting to enter general practice is falling and those currently practicing are reducing their hours at an alarming rate.


Unfortunately when comment is required on the health crisis de jour, the media often go to the AMA. The AMA is a union and inevitably the answer is “more funding”. Funding of what?

If you want to spend more money in health, open up training. The example of nurse training in Victoria is ideal but needs to be replicated across a number of skill groups.

I can tell you right now a number of state govt health initiatives from this election are going to be dead on arrival not because of money but because they can’t be staffed.

Doctors have basically made themselves artificially scarce by having ridiculous entry standards to medicine courses. There's no real reason you need to be in the top 1% or whatever it is for school leavers to be a GP. Obviously you want to have high standards but a lot of the skills of a doctor are not being academically a genius necessarily, but being reasonably smart (e.g. top 5% of school leavers is probably well above this threshold, instead of just top 1%), being on top of medical research, experienced and well-informed and able to interact with patients. It would be incredibly easy to deal with shortages by training more people - it's not as though there's a shortage of ambitious young people wanting to be doctors.

This is all compounded by money hungry universities like Melbourne getting rid of undergraduate medicine so they can charge the graduate students ludicrous fees and keep them there for 7+ years.

 

[Saint]

Doctors have basically made themselves artificially scarce by having ridiculous entry standards to medicine courses. There's no real reason you need to be in the top 1% or whatever it is for school leavers to be a GP. Obviously you want to have high standards but a lot of the skills of a doctor are not being academically a genius necessarily, but being reasonably smart (e.g. top 5% of school leavers is probably well above this threshold, instead of just top 1%), being on top of medical research, experienced and well-informed and able to interact with patients. It would be incredibly easy to deal with shortages by training more people - it's not as though there's a shortage of ambitious young people wanting to be doctors.

This is all compounded by money hungry universities like Melbourne getting rid of undergraduate medicine so they can charge the graduate students ludicrous fees and keep them there for 7+ years.

The entry standards are supply/demand based.

The core reason is that they're not providing enough places for medical students, hence the high entry scores. If there was an unlimited number of spaces, the entry level mark required would drop significantly.

The Medical Departments like to keep scarcity as it helps themselves too.

Medical degrees are memorising names and biology text books. Not difficult at all and AI could probably do their job better than them with just a little input from an RN (if we had enough of those).

 

[Crankyhawk]

The entry standards are supply/demand based.

The core reason is that they're not providing enough places for medical students, hence the high entry scores. If there was an unlimited number of spaces, the entry level mark required would drop significantly.

The Medical Departments like to keep scarcity as it helps themselves too.

Medical degrees are memorising names and biology text books. Not difficult at all and AI could probably do their job better than them with just a little input from an RN (if we had enough of those).

There’s also the issue that if you massively increase medical student places you need more doctors to train them including post graduate training. Many doctors really don’t like being involved with medical students as they slow you down (interns are bad enough) though there are other doctors who love teaching (good on them so I can stay out of it)

 

[Saint]

There’s also the issue that if you massively increase medical student places you need more doctors to train them including post graduate training. Many doctors really don’t like being involved with medical students as they slow you down (interns are bad enough) though there are other doctors who love teaching (good on them so I can stay out of it)

That would only be true in the short-term. Because with more doctors in the system, the teaching time wouldn't go up per teacher, as there would be more available to take on the teaching.

 

[Crankyhawk]

That would only be true in the short-term. Because with more doctors in the system, the teaching time wouldn't go up per teacher, as there would be more available to take on the teaching.

Short term is about 5-10 years.
Also would mean need to fund more hospital based training places (and getting doctors who don’t get paid for teaching activity to provide training and supervision) as you can no longer go direct to GP after intern year (thanks wooldrige)

 

[Hojuman]

Is becoming a GP still attractive to medico's ?
I was in the hosp.system for 40 + years but can't remember any who had that desire.

 

[Kwality]

Multiple points
1) delays by st basils management refusing to answer questions (iirc they had to be extradited from overseas)
2) all public services have been impacted by staffing issues can’t see how coroner escapes
3) ongoing other coronial work (other deaths and natural disasters)
4) I can tell you of another individual coroners case (domenic chiodo it is freely accessible)

• death on 2 April 2010
• hearings September 2012
• verdict 22 Feb 2013

This is for a single death and may be less complex than the st basils one

The Coroner

Former St Basil’s managers lose appeal to avoid giving evidence to coroner

Managers at St Basil’s, where 50 aged care residents died in Australia’s deadliest COVID outbreak, have lost an appeal to avoid giving evidence to the coroner.

www.theage.com.au

Two managers at St Basil’s aged care home in Melbourne, where 50 residents died in what remains Australia’s deadliest coronavirus outbreak, have lost their Court of Appeal bid to avoid giving evidence to the state coroner.
Former St Basil’s chairman Kon Kontis and director of nursing Vicky Kos will now be forced to give evidence to coroner John Cain about the events of July and August 2020, when 45 residents at the Fawkner facility died from COVID-19 and another five died from suspected neglect.

Yes I'm cynical that it got to Court weeks after the election.

 

[Mofra]

Is becoming a GP still attractive to medico's ?
I was in the hosp.system for 40 + years but can't remember any who had that desire.

No - especially in regional/rural areas.
Incredible incentives being offered for GPs to move to non-metro areas

 

[Not Important]

Nobody is stopping you wearing a mask if you feel the need. Don't blame Eddie for your issues.

no issues. just dislike unenlightened peeps disseminating disinformation. as i do governments doing the same. and not only about masks but vaccines and the rate of infection as of the moment.

 

[Not Important]

Eddie didn’t remove mask mandates in Victoria mate, Andrews did. If you’re unhappy with the decision, you should probably include Andrews into the conversation, not a random person on a footy forum.

 

[adogsfan5]

Nothing went over my head.
You had a crack at a poster about something that’s got nothing to do with them mate

 

[adogsfan5]

no issues. just dislike unenlightened peeps disseminating disinformation. as i do governments doing the same. and not only about masks but vaccines and the rate of infection as of the moment.

No one on here is spreading disinformation about masks or vaccines..?

 

[Not Important]

Nothing went over my head.
You had a crack at a poster about something that’s got nothing to do with them mate

nothing to do with a poster who ad infinitum spread misinformation on the matter at hand. the gif was spot on.