Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

[Not Important]

Not really, fixed cameras that everyone knows where they are are the easiest to avoid.

Or if on a different freeway, open the map app on the phone which goes “Speed camera reported ahead!”

if they're r mobile people won't know where they r. and knowing where they r isn't a fix all. everyone & his dog knows the cameras @ batesford road and warrigal road r huge revenue raisers yet each year they remain at the top of the list.

 

[Not Important]

Cheers mate. I thought much the same.

irony another of your many blind spots then?

 

[Opine]

The hospitality modern award is pretty grim reading. A “Level 5” food and beverage supervisor working without casual loading makes $31.45 ph on a Saturday (a 25% surcharge on mid week rates). They get a modest surcharge on their base rate for working evenings. This is the supervisor mind you.

if they are working with a causal loading their best rate is nearly $40 ph on a Saturday night.

I’m for it in principle, but am not sure about the timing. I think it may end up majorly depending on feds strengthening employee support in their FairWork complaints framework; for those employees that may be led into false contract arrangements by employers wanting to avoid paying. On the flip-side, it may be worthwhile raising it now as they have, to tie in with the Fed election.

 

[Opine]

The hospitality modern award is pretty grim reading. A “Level 5” food and beverage supervisor working without casual loading makes $31.45 ph on a Saturday (a 25% surcharge on mid week rates). They get a modest surcharge on their base rate for working evenings. This is the supervisor mind you.

if they are working with a causal loading their best rate is nearly $40 ph on a Saturday night.

I had an argument 3 or so years ago with a good friend of mine who owns a restaurant about this. We haven’t spoken since.

 

[Proper Gander]

I had an argument 3 or so years ago with a good friend of mine who owns a restaurant about this. We haven’t spoken since.

I’m not surprised. It’s a huge issue in the Victorian economy that has pretty much become a wicked problem that nobody can solve.

The success of the Melbourne hospitality sector has become inseparably intertwined with virtual slave labour conditions. Even with the appalling award for staff, business owners claim that they can’t pay more or would go into administration. They might even be right too, hospitality is a perennial fragile industry. But the other side is that employee wages and conditions are appalling. And people have lost all confidence in bargaining power for fear of losing even a horrible paying job. Alongside this is a workforce always in competition with uni student casuals etc doing shifts to supplement pin money.

Even with the low wages and poor conditions, the number of restaurants that get pinged for underpayment - generally of newly arrived migrants - used to shock me. I would boycott people exposed as doing this and take my business elsewhere but there are so many doing it, most haven’t been caught yet.

I haven’t the foggiest what is an acceptable solution. If pay and conditions are improved, restaurants will almost certainly shift that cost to customers who in turn will dine out less frequently. I went out for the first time in a bit to a pretty nice restaurant last week. Main courses were mostly around 45 dollars, more for the steak, and this feels pretty normal to me. If your scotch fillet goes up to be 60 plus everywhere, I’m not too sure all the patrons can sustain regular outings like this. Then the standard of food offerings would likewise plummet, which would also be a shame for Melbourne as the best dining city I have lived in by a decent margin

 

[Opine]

I’m not surprised. It’s a huge issue in the Victorian economy that has pretty much become a wicked problem that nobody can solve.

The success of the Melbourne hospitality sector has become inseparably intertwined with virtual slave labour conditions. Even with the appalling award for staff, business owners claim that they can’t pay more or would go into administration. They might even be right too, hospitality is a perennial fragile industry. But the other side is that employee wages and conditions are appalling. And people have lost all confidence in bargaining power for fear of losing even a horrible paying job. Alongside this is a workforce always in competition with uni student casuals etc doing shifts to supplement pin money.

Even with the low wages and poor conditions, the number of restaurants that get pinged for underpayment - generally of newly arrived migrants - used to shock me. I would boycott people exposed as doing this and take my business elsewhere but there are so many doing it, most haven’t been caught yet.

I haven’t the foggiest what is an acceptable solution. If pay and conditions are improved, restaurants will almost certainly shift that cost to customers who in turn will dine out less frequently. I went out for the first time in a bit to a pretty nice restaurant last week. Main courses were mostly around 45 dollars, more for the steak, and this feels pretty normal to me. If your scotch fillet goes up to be 60 plus everywhere, I’m not too sure all the patrons can sustain regular outings like this. Then the standard of food offerings would likewise plummet, which would also be a shame for Melbourne as the best dining city I have lived in by a decent margin

I found it offensive and disgraceful. Too many hospitality workers are subject to such power imbalance, it’s just shit.

 

[Proper Gander]

I found it offensive and disgraceful. Too many hospitality workers are subject to such power imbalance, it’s just sh*t.

Yes. In a way someone just has to force better pay and conditions in the award, and for the industry in general the chips will just have to fall where they will. But I agree that attempting to improve conditions for casuals separately, and first, will see many employers shift their staffing arrangements to the ungenerous contract employment.

To hell with it. Sink or swim to those employers who are currently maximising their profit margins by ripping off vulnerable workers

 

[Hoops]

I'd blame both. Tailgating and illegal right lane hogging are equally responsible imo.

How hard is it to obey the road rules:

View attachment 1343455

What about if you start to overtake and then the car being overtaken speeds up to your speed. That is very frustrating.

 

[eddiesmith]

if they're r mobile people won't know where they r. and knowing where they r isn't a fix all. everyone & his dog knows the cameras @ batesford road and warrigal road r huge revenue raisers yet each year they remain at the top of the list.

Yet the 4 mobile speed cameras I drove past today I got a nice warning from my phone they were there!

But they’d have done well today, was there over 6 hours on a public holiday just sitting on the freeway. Although things have changed since one of them was parked halfway down a hill.

 

[eddiesmith]

What about if you start to overtake and then the car being overtaken speeds up to your speed. That is very frustrating.

Even worse when they do it on a one lane each way road so you’re on the wrong side of the road having to do 120-130 to get past safely.

 

[adogsfan5]

Lol what a fu***ng idiot this guy is, seriously. So far from reality it’s not funny.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

I give Andrews 8 out of 10. Best Victorian premier in my time. And I'm old.

 

[Proper Gander]

Lol what a fu***ng idiot this guy is, seriously. So far from reality it’s not funny.

View attachment 1344301

Not sure it is misguided. I had to make a choice between attempting to buy a vastly (and I mean VASTLY) unsatisfactory cardboard crap property in outer space or live the better years of my life in a better environment, so I absolutely choose a tenant life. To be fair I have no children or desire to start a family so that’s different from some. But skyrocketing property prices plus exorbitantly rising costs of living plus wage stagnation are a thing, and aren’t a thing that Andrews himself has too much control over.

So yeah, with the lack of opportunities available to current generations as compared to those who forged the home-owner dream with the quarter acre block and the victor mower, I’m one of many people who would focus in preference on living my life. He’s absolutely right that we need to address the power inequity in the landlord tenant relationship and see incentives for landlords to fix long-term leases, and price benefits for long term tenants that give landlords that security. Other countries have done this for a bit. It’s disappointing to see home owning opportunities slip away in the space of a generation, but I reckon there are others like me that get exhausted by railing against things that you can’t change

 

[adogsfan5]

Not sure it is misguided. I had to make a choice between attempting to buy a vastly (and I mean VASTLY) unsatisfactory cardboard crap property in outer space or live the better years of my life in a better environment, so I absolutely choose a tenant life. To be fair I have no children or desire to start a family so that’s different from some. But skyrocketing property prices plus exorbitantly rising costs of living plus wage stagnation are a thing, and aren’t a thing that Andrews himself has too much control over.

So yeah, with the lack of opportunities available to current generations as compared to those who forged the home-owner dream with the quarter acre block and the victor mower, I’m one of many people who would focus in preference on living my life. He’s absolutely right that we need to address the power inequity in the landlord tenant relationship and see incentives for landlords to fix long-term leases, and price benefits for long term tenants that give landlords that security. Other countries have done this for a bit. It’s disappointing to see home owning opportunities slip away in the space of a generation, but I reckon there are others like me that get exhausted by railing against things that you can’t change

To generalise it as “less important” because he’s “spoken to his kids and their friends” is so far off reality it’s not funny lol. I think it’s very important and probably why you chose to look at buying first. It Didn’t work out for you as you had hoped, so you went plan B, a bigger space and to rent. Were you disappointed that you could only find a cardboard box that didn’t meet your needs? (And I ask you this without being a smarta**/a-hole).

Surely it’s common sense that most would prefer to purchase their own home, no one in their 20s/30s is going around and saying how much better renting is over buying lol. More and more people are looking in the outer suburbs as opportunities to get in the market now, especially being young and wanting a family.

A father who’s on over $400,000 a year, and his kids are saying they would prefer to rent?
Haha.. cmon Daniel.

 

[kalex6251]

Lol what a fu***ng idiot this guy is, seriously. So far from reality it’s not funny.

View attachment 1344301

what hes said seems perfectly reasonable to me ..... your fetishised middle class slip is showing .... and it aint pretty

 

[adogsfan5]

what hes said seems perfectly reasonable to me ..... your fetishised middle class slip is showing .... and it aint pretty

Wash your nose. It’s too brown.

 

[Proper Gander]

To generalise it as “less important” because he’s “spoken to his kids and their friends” is so far off reality it’s not funny lol. I think it’s very important and probably why you chose to look at buying first. It Didn’t work out for you as you had hoped, so you went plan B, a bigger space and to rent. Were you disappointed that you could only find a cardboard box that didn’t meet your needs? (And I ask you this without being a smarta**/a-hole).

Surely it’s common sense that most would prefer to purchase their own home, no one in their 20s/30s is going around and saying how much better renting is over buying lol. More and more people are looking in the outer suburbs as opportunities to get in the market now, especially being young and wanting a family.

A father who’s on over $400,000 a year, and his kids are saying they want to rent?
Haha.. cmon Daniel.

Yeah I agree he was insensitive. But I don’t think he’s entirely wrong at all.

It could have been done better, but the reality is that young people are coming to terms with, or have come to terms with, a world that can never offer them some kind of historical boomer dream. And as a problem that Andrews can’t fix for these people, it’s probably better to start an alternative brand of message that tells people like me that you’re not a failure for not being able to meet an ideal that is entirely out of reach.

Agree that the “I’ve talked to my kids and their mates” shit is cheesy and messes up the message. Its got too many of the contemporary scomo style political marketing about it and I reckon it ends up sounding false. From anyone.

But yeah - about me in particular. I wasn’t so distressed about discovering that my budget on the biggest stretch possible wasn’t going to buy me anything that I wanted even remotely in Melbourne. I was more kind of exploring the ranges of possibility before I committed to moving on. I just wanted to measure properly at one point the pros and cons of how I spend what money I have. To be fair, I’m not myself super young and the sense of disappointment in opportunities might be very different say for a young newly wed couple and all.

Actually my own lifestyle decision didn’t come down to bigger space at all, it was more about location and avoiding hours of my day given over to a commute. That’s by-the-by though. Anyway, overall I would prefer politicians to talk about the realities of shifting lifestyle options then to keep selling an unobtainable dream to the greater percentage of people in this city

 

[adogsfan5]

Yeah I agree he was insensitive. But I don’t think he’s entirely wrong at all.

It could have been done better, but the reality is that young people are coming to terms with, or have come to terms with, a world that can never offer them some kind of historical boomer dream. And as a problem that Andrews can’t fix for these people, it’s probably better to start an alternative brand of message that tells people like me that you’re not a failure for not being able to meet an ideal that is entirely out of reach.

Agree that the “I’ve talked to my kids and their mates” sh*t is cheesy and messes up the message. Its got too many of the contemporary scomo style political marketing about it and I reckon it ends up sounding false. From anyone.

But yeah - about me in particular. I wasn’t so distressed about discovering that my budget on the biggest stretch possible wasn’t going to buy me anything that I wanted even remotely in Melbourne. I was more kind of exploring the ranges of possibility before I committed to moving on. I just wanted to measure properly at one point the pros and cons of how I spend what money I have. To be fair, I’m not myself super young and the sense of disappointment in opportunities might be very different say for a young newly wed couple and all.

Actually my own lifestyle decision didn’t come down to bigger space at all, it was more about location and avoiding hours of my day given over to a commute. That’s by-the-by though. Anyway, overall I would prefer politicians to talk about the realities of shifting lifestyle options then to keep selling an unobtainable dream to the greater percentage of people in this city

Yeah fair mate, well said! And I certainly am not having a dig at renters. His messaging just shi*s me!! But if you’re happy where you live, and it suits your lifestyle, that’s all that matters!!

 

[Proper Gander]

Yeah fair mate, well said! And I certainly am not having a dig at renters. His messaging just shi*s me!! But if you’re happy where you live, and it suits your lifestyle, that’s all that matters!!

Agree with you it’s a pretty clumsy delivery. Also probably leaves 50 percent of people feeling like they have been told how they think.

I reckon I give it one more year, tops, following politics in any manner then I become some type of hermit

 

[eddiesmith]

Lol what a fu***ng idiot this guy is, seriously. So far from reality it’s not funny.

View attachment 1344301

lol, Dans kids who’ll have no problem buying a home don’t see that as their dream? Why? Because they know they’ll get it anyway? As if Dans kids will be renting

But it’s complete rubbish, plenty of people will never play AFL but it doesn’t mean it’s not their dream growing up. To say people don’t want to own a home and are happy to pay the mortgage of these boomers they hate so much is complete and utter bullshit. It may be tough if they want to continue to live in the wealthy suburbs they’ve grown up in, but the home buying dream is definitely still real and still a possibility if they just move out.

 

[adogsfan5]

lol, Dans kids who’ll have no problem buying a home don’t see that as their dream? Why? Because they know they’ll get it anyway? As if Dans kids will be renting

But it’s complete rubbish, plenty of people will never play AFL but it doesn’t mean it’s not their dream growing up. To say people don’t want to own a home and are happy to pay the mortgage of these boomers they hate so much is complete and utter bullshit. It may be tough if they want to continue to live in the wealthy suburbs they’ve grown up in, but the home buying dream is definitely still real and still a possibility if they just move out.

A father on over $400,000 a year, and his kids that live with him are telling him they are happy to rent lol…. Oh and by the way, his kids are aged 19, 17 and 13. I’m sure they, and their friends, are all buzzing at the thought of renting on “secure terms” in Melbourne at their ages

Never come across someone so full of sh*t.

 

[swingdog]

Not sure it is misguided. I had to make a choice between attempting to buy a vastly (and I mean VASTLY) unsatisfactory cardboard crap property in outer space or live the better years of my life in a better environment, so I absolutely choose a tenant life. To be fair I have no children or desire to start a family so that’s different from some. But skyrocketing property prices plus exorbitantly rising costs of living plus wage stagnation are a thing, and aren’t a thing that Andrews himself has too much control over.

So yeah, with the lack of opportunities available to current generations as compared to those who forged the home-owner dream with the quarter acre block and the victor mower, I’m one of many people who would focus in preference on living my life. He’s absolutely right that we need to address the power inequity in the landlord tenant relationship and see incentives for landlords to fix long-term leases, and price benefits for long term tenants that give landlords that security. Other countries have done this for a bit. It’s disappointing to see home owning opportunities slip away in the space of a generation, but I reckon there are others like me that get exhausted by railing against things that you can’t change

It's really just bringing Australia into line with a lot of other modern economies where renting is common-place (and protected by strong laws). Visitors from overseas often find Australians' obsession with getting housing debt at the expense of living a more enjoyable life a little odd.

 

[Punt rd end]

Not really sure how it’ll impact businesses so I can’t really comment

They whinge at anything that costs them money even when it actually saves them money long term

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

It's really just bringing Australia into line with a lot of other modern economies where renting is common-place (and protected by strong laws). Visitors from overseas often find Australians' obsession with getting housing debt at the expense of living a more enjoyable life a little odd.

Australia’s situation is unique though. The size of the country, the spread of the population. High rise seems to be the only purpose built type of rental accommodation. Most houses and apartments are privately owned and rented. Make the rules too disadvantageous for the owners and they will sell up, further reducing the amount of accommodation available. I don’t know what the answer is.

 

[swingdog]

Not sure the size of the country or density has anything to do with it.

It’s cultural. We’ve been brought up to value home ownership.