Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

[Satan]

No cost-benefit analysis was done for the $2 billion worth of legacy projects the Victorian government is promising regional cities to make up for losing the Commonwealth Games.

No cost-benefit analysis done for $2b in legacy Games projects

Premier Daniel Andrews has said no such analysis had been done solely for the sporting facilities and social and affordable homes the government still intends to build.

www.theage.com.au

 

[eddiesmith]

Yes I don't read every post, what's your point? I'm simply pointing out that laughing a lot and a lack of argument just shows how ignorant and somebody. My dad used to tell me that if you ever find somone that needlesly laughs a lot, it's a good sign they are morons.

Thats a fair point, which makes most of the people agreeing with you morons, as that’s the MO of the Dan cheerleaders to laugh at posts they didn’t agree with.

 

[Roby]

You kind of left out an important part in that paragraph? Is your modus operandi to leave out important details in order to misrepresent? Ever heard of a balanced view or argument?

Sttew still waiting why you left out an important piece of information regarding the Armstrong Creek pool.

 

[Roby]

Thats a fair point, which makes most of the people agreeing with you morons, as that’s the MO of the Dan cheerleaders to laugh at posts they didn’t agree with.

Philosophical and moral arguments apply to both left and right wing. I don't laugh at posts, unless I genuinely think they're funny. A lot of people use the laugh emote to troll rather than engaging fairly in discussion, will ignore posts to suit their agenda or just laugh at it as some "kind of win". I do actually realise there is a human being behind the keyboard, a lot of people here wouldn't act like this outside the forum.

 

[Gavin Excell]

No cost-benefit analysis was done for the $2 billion worth of legacy projects the Victorian government is promising regional cities to make up for losing the Commonwealth Games.

No cost-benefit analysis done for $2b in legacy Games projects

Premier Daniel Andrews has said no such analysis had been done solely for the sporting facilities and social and affordable homes the government still intends to build.

www.theage.com.au

I find this staggering
Surely it's not good enough to just say it makes sense. This is public money.

 

[Wooden Robot]

I find this staggering
Surely it's not good enough to just say it makes sense. This is public money.

But Dan knows best.
A law unto his own.
His $2 billion in legacy projects will be about $2 or $3 billion over budget for no real use.

No cost-benefit analysis done for $2b in legacy Games projects

Premier Daniel Andrews has said no such analysis had been done solely for the sporting facilities and social and affordable homes the government still intends to build.

www.theage.com.au

From The Age

No cost-benefit analysis was done for the $2 billion worth of legacy projects the Victorian government is promising regional cities to make up for losing the Commonwealth Games.
The admission on Tuesday came as Nationals senator Bridget McKenzie said she wanted to haul Premier Daniel Andrews before a possible Senate inquiry into the state government’s decision to cancel the 2026 Commonwealth Games that had been planned for five regional hubs around the state.
Fifteen months ago, the government said spending $2.6 billion to host the Games would contribute more than $3 billion to the Victorian economy, about a $1.16 return for each dollar invested.
The Games were thrown out this month after the projected cost ballooned to more than $6 billion, but Victoria is going ahead with $2 billion worth of local legacy projects. Instead of the state building competition-grade facilities for the Games and later tearing them down to replace them for locals, Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, Morwell and Shepparton will immediately get new and upgraded sporting facilities.
Half the continued expenditure, valued at $1 billion, will go towards 1300 social and affordable homes across the regions.
Pushed to explain the benefit of the almost $1 billion for sporting facilities in the five regional cities, Andrews said the projects stacked up financially according to the original analysis, which assumed the Games were going ahead.
“They’re all analysed and worked through as part of the original planning.”
The premier had trashed the reliability of that analysis when he announced last week the projected $2.6 billion budget had underestimated the true cost almost three times over.
Marion Terrill, the transport and cities program director at the Grattan Institute think tank, said the Games were a different prospect to what was on offer today, which would require new analysis to ensure it was the best solution to a problem and was targeted appropriately.
“It’s not satisfactory to say, ‘we don’t have a cost-benefit analysis’ and that it’s ‘just common sense’. If the benefits are so clear, the net benefits are so clear, there’s nothing to fear from doing proper analysis,” Terrill said.
“If you find yourself without the Games, but with a kitty of $2 billion and decide to spend it on regions, there’s a better way to go about it than this.”

 

[The Punter]

Will those same "reasonable" people willingly acknowledge their protestations and outrage are amongst the minority for Victorian voters?

Essential poll: sizeable support for Daniel Andrews’ decision to scrap Commonwealth Games

Almost 60% of people support players receiving equal pay in the Women’s World Cup

www.theguardian.com

As said in an earlier response to the thread, the poll didn't ask whether the government should have decided to host the games in the first place. It's hard to avoid the conclusion that the Andrews Government has made a mistake, and one that could have been easily foreseen, at some stage in the process. And for a nearly nine year old government, the benefit of the doubt should not be extended for not avoiding mistakes that should be easy to avoid. The absence of a business case for the games is a demonstration that the government no longer feels it has to do the work of good governing. It has hubris written large all over it.

 

[Wooden Robot]

Questions everywhere?

Bendigo housing plan axed in Comm Games kill-off

Govt says consultations will soon begin on a replacement plan.

www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au

The housing plan promised to Bendigo as part of its athletes' village build is now up in the air, a day after the state government canned the 2026 Commonwealth Games.
Plans that have at times foreshadowed 212 townhouses and 46 apartments for people once athletes finished with a site in Flora Hill appear to have been scrapped as the government sifts through the rubble of the cancelled 2026 Games.
The potential blow to builders would come on top of the economic whack of ditching the 12 days of sports in 2026 in Bendigo, and the brand loss to the city's tourism industry now that the event will not be televised internationally.
Development Victoria on Wednesday told all businesses vying for contracts to help build the athletes' village that the tender was cancelled.

 

[Jane Doe]

If we cannot afford the commonwealth games how can we afford the suburban rail loop? Dan must just think its monolopy money. Not surprising given he took 7 years to do an arts degree

 

[Better Loosen Up]

If we cannot afford the commonwealth games how are we afford the suburban rail loop? Dan must just think its monolopy money. Not surprising given he took 7 years to do an arts degree

Because it's Dan's little baby. Dan gets whatever he wants. Simple as that.

 

[Chief]

If we cannot afford the commonwealth games how can we afford the suburban rail loop?

Do you think transport infrastructure might benefit citizens for a lot longer than the games?

 

[The Punter]

For a moment, let's give the Premier the benefit of the doubt on the Suburban Rail Loop, another projects where the modelled economic benefits don't look that good right now. It's a classic "build it and they will come" project. It's not a catch up project, it's a visionary one. We've essentially had one transport infrastructure project like this in Victorian history: The Eastern Freeway, a road which took decades to fill capacity.

At worst, as far as cost/benefit and need is concerned, it commits all the same sins as the East-West Link. It's not needed now, and may not be for some time.

But the Premier ain't selling it like that. He says we need it now, and the priority of the loop is Cheltenham to Box Hill, which is ridiculous. The priority should be in the West if anything, but that ain't where the swinging voters are.

 

[Sttew]

Do you think transport infrastructure might benefit citizens for a lot longer than the games?

Not a rail line between Box Hill and Cheltenham at a cost of $125B+++ Can’t remember last time I drove that route. No doubt it would be nice one day but not now that the state is reeling.

How are we going to pay for the SRL?

 

[Chief]

Can’t remember last time I drove that route.

I don't know the area so I don't know if your experience is unique or prevalent.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

For a moment, let's give the Premier the benefit of the doubt on the Suburban Rail Loop, another projects where the modelled economic benefits don't look that good right now. It's a classic "build it and they will come" project. It's not a catch up project, it's a visionary one. We've essentially had one transport infrastructure project like this in Victorian history: The Eastern Freeway, a road which took decades to fill capacity.

It is a bit of a catch up one though.
Public transport in this city has been neglected for decades.
Cross suburban travel even more so. BUS routes that neander through every street in the known universe once an hour don't cut it.

Not a rail line between Box Hill and Cheltenham at a cost of $125B+++ Can’t remember last time I drove that route. No doubt it would be nice one day but not now that the state is reeling.

Its not designed to have people go end to end. It's like how the SmartBus orbital routes are(901/902/903)
The 902 runs from Chelsea to Airport West via Springvale, Glen Waverley, Doncaster and across the northern suburbs.

People are only travelling part of the route. Springvale to Glen Waverley is very popular.

Some people have this wierd way of thinking that trains should be only to/from the city

 

[Sttew]

It is a bit of a catch up one though.
Public transport in this city has been neglected for decades.
Cross suburban travel even more so. BUS routes that neander through every street in the known universe once an hour don't cut it.


Its not designed to have people go end to end. It's like how the SmartBus orbital routes are(901/902/903)
The 902 runs from Chelsea to Airport West via Springvale, Glen Waverley, Doncaster and across the northern suburbs.

People are only travelling part of the route. Springvale to Glen Waverley is very popular.

Some people have this wierd way of thinking that trains should be only to/from the city

Good point. I’m not sure what the patronage would be.

Do you think now is the time to build this? Dan doesn’t think an Airport rail link is important at this point of time. Of the 50 busiest airports in the world, of which Melbourne is one, we are one of 2 or 3 without a rail link. Have you tried catching a taxi at the airport lately? The taxi ranks have been shifted out of sight with Uber given precedence. It’s a dog’s breakfast IMO.

 

[adogsfan5]

Good point. I’m not sure what the patronage would be.

Do you think now is the time to build this? Dan doesn’t think an Airport rail link is important at this point of time. Of the 50 busiest airports in the world, of which Melbourne is one, we are one of 2 or 3 without a rail link. Have you tried catching a taxi at the airport lately? The taxi ranks have been shifted out of sight with Uber given precedence. It’s a dog’s breakfast IMO.

I posted this in the climate thread.

This will be interesting.

If they do scrap flights or scale back and make them very expensive down the track, why the need for the airport rail link?

 

[Jane Doe]

Do you think transport infrastructure might benefit citizens for a lot longer than the games?

Not many people are going to be catching a train between Cheltenham and Box Hill. I live near Cheltenham and going to Box Hill is a bit out of the way

 

[Kwality]

Do you think transport infrastructure might benefit citizens for a lot longer than the games?

Will that depend on the timeframe & kpi's delivered by the SRL. (Suburban Rail Loop).

The theory of major events includes a short term return economic boost to support the expenditure, quite different to long term transport infrastructure.

That NSW is also looking at its capital expenditure reflects the reality of increased interest rates on borrowings.

..

 

[faible]

Not many people are going to be catching a train between Cheltenham and Box Hill. I live near Cheltenham and going to Box Hill is a bit out of the way

Box Hill - Heidelberg, Burwood or Glen Waverley you might do a lot though.

 

[faible]

Good point. I’m not sure what the patronage would be.

Do you think now is the time to build this? Dan doesn’t think an Airport rail link is important at this point of time. Of the 50 busiest airports in the world, of which Melbourne is one, we are one of 2 or 3 without a rail link. Have you tried catching a taxi at the airport lately? The taxi ranks have been shifted out of sight with Uber given precedence. It’s a dog’s breakfast IMO.

It's been bleedingly obvious for decades that there needs to be a rail link to the airport, but it just keeps not getting built because in the short-term it's not going to win votes.

Melbourne Airport should be the major international airport in Australia, it's the only one on the east coast without curfews and geographical limitations to expansion.

 

[Jane Doe]

Box Hill - Heidelberg, Burwood or Glen Waverley you might do a lot though.

Already plenty of bus and train routes that service those areas though

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I posted this in the climate thread.



If they do scrap flights or scale back and make them very expensive down the track, why the need for the airport rail link?

So nothing should get built because something hypothetical might happen in ten years?

 

[adogsfan5]

So nothing should get built because something hypothetical might happen in ten years?

6.5 years away and the article suggested it’s about hitting targets for 2030. Shouldn’t we have an idea of where we are heading?

 

[faible]

Already plenty of bus and train routes that service those areas though

Train routes that don't go in a ways?

Long-term infrastructure wise it makes sense to build a train network that's not just a hub and spoke model IMO

Buses rely on the very crowded road network.