telsor
Hall of Famer
I'll take that as you agreeing...or at least unable to disagree.
Tasmania ? How would YOU solve the Economic challenge to get Tassie in the AFL
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I'll take that as you agreeing...or at least unable to disagree.
telsor
Hall of Famer
The size of stadiums is relevant only as to how much they cost to run per seat of attendances & what profit they can generate. I note that clubs lose money even with decent crowds at Etihad. I see that the plan is to better help clubs in that regard, but some on here seem to think they'll make make huge profits. The AFL cant give the ground away, it costs heaps to run & maintain such a facility, depreciation etc needs to be paid for out of the users returns. Its the AFL who want to sponsor new clubs in GC, GWS & poor Port Philip clubs. The money has to come from somewhere.
Tassie have 20k stadiums, without even a home club! & they make money for Hawks & Roos. What do you want? Maybe 40k stadiums in Darwin, Hobart, Launceston, Cairns, Alice Springs, Bendigo, Ballarat. Yeah anything to maximise costs for local councils & state Guments, but not to the Port Philip clubs losing money on home games .
They just like to take the profits back to HQ in Melbourne. Its good business when you can socialise your costs & privatise your profits!!
WA & SA both pay for the AF activities & game support in their own states. The AFL TV rights would include the 4.3million people in WA & SA. I'm sure that all goes into AFL coffers in Melbourne for the above struggling & new clubs.
Clearly far more money flows into Victoria from WA, SA & indeed from Tasmania than the other way. In general, the Southern States pay for the Northern states development.
Please, show me where all this money flows from....
Try using Facts, not empty claims for a change.
And don't forget that even the Tas government says they profit significantly from hosting games....
I believe AFL money comes from TV rights, AFL sponsorship, aspects of playing games. Also direct from Gument. Why?, do you think it all comes from what the AFL make out of the MCG & Etihad games?
I Very much doubt that Gument make anything out of the games played here. Please, maybe you could show us how they do. Please use facts & not empty claims.
I would think that After paying $Millions in ground development & $Millions more to the FIFO clubs, their wouldn't be much left, if anything, to profit from.
I'd surmise Gument would most likely be looking at the economic activity that comes from the games which hopefully 'benefits' small businesses associated with supplying the games & associated tourist venues, TV exposure for brand Tasmania & a long period of impressing the voters seat of Bass, now the seat of Franklin as well, to win votes.
Anyway I'm sure you'll have the facts for us.
So you suggest the ground rental fee is $500k per game? Do you net the ongoing subsidies being paid by the AFL?
Freo pay $300+ to WA footy, the actual numbers are usually in the Annual Report - footy is the winner at Subi, see the number of WA kids in the Flying Boomerangs courtesy WA footy, http://www.wafootball.com.au/news/12852/wa-flavour-for-boomerangs-and-world-team
Perhaps you need a new set of glasses, the present set are goggle eyed.
They are rose coloured glasses & they stop working at the border. Geographically limited if you like.
If North, St Kilda and Footscray can all have a team I'm sure an entire state of 500k with a football history as long as anyone can sustain one.
- Thread starter
- #107
The size of stadiums is relevant only as to how much they cost to run per seat of attendances & what profit they can generate. I note that clubs lose money even with decent crowds at Etihad. I see that the plan is to better help clubs in that regard, but some on here seem to think they'll make make huge profits. The AFL cant give the ground away, it costs heaps to run & maintain such a facility, depreciation etc needs to be paid for out of the users returns. Its the AFL who want to sponsor new clubs in GC, GWS & poor Port Philip clubs. The money has to come from somewhere.
Tassie have 20k stadiums, without even a home club! & they make money for Hawks & Roos. What do you want? Maybe 40k stadiums in Darwin, Hobart, Launceston, Cairns, Alice Springs, Bendigo, Ballarat. Yeah anything to maximise costs for local councils & state Guments, but not to the Port Philip clubs losing money on home games .
They just like to take the profits back to HQ in Melbourne. Its good business when you can socialise your costs & privatise your profits!!
WA & SA both pay for the AF activities & game support in their own states. The AFL TV rights would include the 4.3million people in WA & SA. I'm sure that all goes into AFL coffers in Melbourne for the above struggling & new clubs.
Clearly far more money flows into Victoria from WA, SA & indeed from Tasmania than the other way. In general, the Southern States pay for the Northern states development.
You have to look at the basic purpose and function of the AFL Commission to clarify what you are saying. The commission represents the clubs collectively to promote the AFL Competition and the game of Australian Rules itself.
The aim is to make all clubs viable and the competition equitably competitive. In order to do this the AFL attempts to maximize support for all clubs in terms of sponsorship,fixturing matches,membership,broadcast rights etc etc. At the end of the day , in collaboration with the clubs, matches are played where it will optomize income for clubs and the AFL , balanced against trying to expand the game into other regions where the game has a potential to attract a wider audience , both through match attendance and broadcasting of the game.
Each club has a certain amount of "independence" but they are ultimately beholden to what the AFL Commission decides based on what is best for the game and competition itself. Despite what may appear , the AFL is not a financial competition between clubs nor a profit making organization for private individuals or companies. The primary purpose is to play and promote the game. ..
.Populo Ludus Populi !!!!!
On this basis.....I still ask the question about making a Tassie team economically viable.
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telsor
Hall of Famer
No, I'm saying that was roughly the EXTRA clubs paid, above and beyond fair rent/costs, per game, in order to buy the ground for the AFL. (Actually, the figure is clearly higher, but it's easier to round and not quibble over the stuff I can't put definite figures on)
So nothing to the AFL...
I'm seeing fine. Perhaps you should drop by the optometrist.
telsor
Hall of Famer
and you base that on what?
telsor
Hall of Famer
They are rose coloured glasses & they stop working at the border. Geographically limited if you like.
Are you describing how sense and reason abandons you when talking about Tasmanian, or Victorian football?
Cross the straight and you seem to think different rules should apply...
telsor
Hall of Famer
I ask for facts and I get
'I believe'....
'I Very much doubt'
'I would think'
'I'd surmise'
Not sure if you said anything else, because I didn't bother reading your unfounded opinions any further.
I'm starting to think you're actually trying to do a long running parody of Tasmanian fans, but you're not doing a good one.
No, I'm saying that was roughly the EXTRA clubs paid, above and beyond fair rent/costs, per game, in order to buy the ground for the AFL. (Actually, the figure is clearly higher, but it's easier to round and not quibble over the stuff I can't put definite figures on)
No different to your good self?
telsor
Hall of Famer
Consider the relative decline in players coming out of WA, I'm not sure this is much of an argument.
Surely you can monetise it, those guesstimates of yours that always support your motherhood statements.
telsor
Hall of Famer
I was differentiating between the stuff I could verify, which is the 500k/game and the additional elements, like interest paid, and the time value of money which I couldn't quantify but would undoubtedly add to the sum the clubs playing at docklands effectively paid to the AFL for each game. I also put the more speculative element in brackets in order to differentiate it from the more definitive section.
So very different.
That said, I do enjoy how, realising I'm correct, you keep trying to distract and deflect rather than acknowledge how the truth doesn't fit your narrative.
telsor
Hall of Famer
guestimates? You mean substantiated facts?
That said, even my guestimates, which are based on solid facts far outrank your unsubstantiated, fact avoiding, waffle.
You are doing what you called mugsta for .
& copied from your post 116
Kwality said: ↑
No, I'm saying that was roughly the EXTRA clubs paid, above and beyond fair rent/costs, per game, in order to buy the ground for the AFL. (Actually, the figure is clearly higher, but it's easier to round and not quibble over the stuff I can't put definite figures on)
No different to your good self?
Well fancy that !! What you attribute to me was said by your good self ... the pub got the better of you again?
You asked where AFL money comes from. Was my answer wrong?
You said the Tassie Gument say they make a profit. I said I doubt that due to the costs of providing the games & FIFO contract money, whats wrong with that? You didn't provide any definitive proof of anything the gument 'said'
I suggested they put money into games for economic & political gain. Thats all. Never have I heard of or seen figures that show the gument making a profit. Have you?
Kwality nailed you, criticising others for what you do yourself.
Facts, figures, proof?????
But instead of this, we get-----
"I'm saying"
"roughly"
"beyond fair"
"clearly higher"
"I cant put definitive figures on"
Kwality is correct!!
The AFL have taken on responsibility for AF nationwide. The 2 WA clubs contribute heavily to a state of 2.5million people. The 2 clubs enable the AFL to offer a solid market of 2.5million to add to the overall TV rights. They pull their weight for the game.
What do Vic clubs provide? A supinated hand.
- Thread starter
- #121
Interesting discussion, but really by and large the clubs all need each other and WA needs Vic and vice versa....If West Coast and Freo had their own comp by themselves they would have nowhere near the profile they have without exposure they receive in the AFL throughout the country...That is the basic reason the AFL wants to expand....do it the right way and everybody wins.....including Tassie...
Ive said we need a strong AFL. Its the professional level of our game. The fact that they areheavily affected by the politics of club self interest is a problem. But its all we've got.
Thinking that everyone else is bludging on the one region, around Port Philip Bay, is just dumb. Certainly 'people' thinking places like WA & SA don't 'pull their weight' is living in LALA land. They clearly contribute heavily to AF.
Expansion was initially about survival, South Melbourne to Sydney when the game was state based competitions, before ALL the best players played in one comp.
- Thread starter
- #124
Agree
- Thread starter
- #125
Expansion has always been about survival....that applies to everything....if you don't grow, you go backwards...wither on the vine. Better to be a contributor as well as a receiver.....ask any coach. So back to a Tassie team.....how could it work....?
